THBT Wildlife Trade is the Most Critical Issue Primarily Involving Non-human Animals
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
After 1 vote and with 2 points ahead, the winner is...
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- Two days
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- One month
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
Wild animal: a wild animal must have been living in the natural environment – not domesticated.
Wildlife trade is big business, with wild plants, animals, and products made from them sold around the globe, legally and illegally. It’s also a leading cause of the planet’s accelerating biodiversity crisis and resultant ecosystem collapse.
Burden of proof is shared
Con must show at least one issue concerning non-human animals that is more critical to resolve than the wildlife animal trade. Examples may include endangered animals, animal testing, animal cloning, so on and so forth.
Critical: Most important, most significant, most influential
This debate was about whether wildlife trade is the most critical issue primarily involving nonhuman animals. PRO cites animal cruelty and threats to owners. PRO grounds his stance on animal cruelty philosophically, based on using them as means to ends which, in his opinion, constitutes injustice. PRO vaguely alludes to risks to human health. I am confused as to PRO's R1 point III. CON's burden is to show that wildlife trade is not the most critical issue relevant to non-human animals. It seems like he was trying to frame this as deforestation vs. animal trafficking, though that is not what the resolution says. CON correctly notes that that the resolution leaves many options available to CON, as CON's burden is met by establishing that *any* issue primarily involving non-human animals is more important than trafficking (as opposed to only deforestation). In any event, CON accedes to the framework to which PRO alludes in his R1 point III, and argues that deforestation is more important. He establishes a standard for measuring what counts as "critical" which appears objectively reasonable. CON's argument is that based on the scale and time pressure for deforestation, it is more critical than trafficking.
In R2, PRO argues that climate change is improving, but even if not the costs aren't all bad (and thus not a critical issue). PRO agrees there are many issues, not all are critical however. These arguments were difficult to follow; and their connection to the resolution was not obvious. PRO needs to directly link his arguments to the burden of proof as per the resolution he wrote. PRO's habit of characterizing arguments as "dropped" irritates me. CON is not supposed to directly rebut in the opening round, and even if he failed to put forward a single item of evidence in contravention of PRO's R1 affirmative case in CON's R1 opening, CON would not enter R2 "dropping" them. PRO must disabuse himself of this habit. CON correctly notes this in the first sentence of his R2 case. CON itemizes in R2 eleven items as to the magnitude of harm arising from deforestation. CON thereafter argues that the idea that global warming is being combatted does not make it the lesser threat.
In R3, PRO contends that CON's eleven R2 items were not linked to deforestation. I disagree. The link between those harms and deforestation was plainly stated in the sentence above his list of eleven items ("some statistics to put into perspective how urgent and destructive this threat is"). Here, concrete evidence was needed for PRO to establish that wildlife trade was more critical. PRO opted for a different approach, focusing instead on global warming and other things that he has not linked to his burden for this debate. RM forfeited R3, yet still met his burden in the prior rounds.
CON won the debate because he gave me more concrete reasons why the harms associated with deforestation outweighed any harm PRO identified as arising from wildlife trade.
CONDUCT: I am awarding PRO the conduct point because CON forfeited R3, and for no other reason. I considered not doing this, because of his incorrect statements that CON "dropped" arguments. This habit is one PRO must stop. Alas, I can't not take into consideration that CON forfeited the last round. Had he not done so, I would not have awarded PRO the conduct points and would have given CON the win outright.
Big picture comments: The following did not factor into my decision. I provide them for the limited purpose of feedback to each debater, and no other purpose. Further, I do not have an opinion on this issue. I have not even thought about what my opinion on the issue might be.
Those caveats being established:
1. I do not understand why PRO didn't talk about the threat that wildlife trade presents to human health, whether through COVID-19 and/or the spread of coronaviruses, the spread of African hemorrhagic fevers and/or the spread of AIDS. Each trace a lineage, albeit indirectly, to humans trafficking in animals for various purposes. This is the most clear, direct line of reasoning in support of PRO's burden of proof that he didn't specifically address in R1. If nothing else, this should have been brought up in R3, and it may well have provided the basis for PRO to argue that the magnitude of the threat posed by animal trafficking would outweigh the harm presented by deforestation.
2. In view of PRO's establishing this sort of framework of trafficking vs. deforestation, it would be fundamentally unfair to allow him to later argue that deforestation does not "primarily" involve non-human animals, which is the stronger argument against deforestation based n the resolution. He didn't really take that approach, however, so it wasn't an issue. But I'm surprised he didn't try. It would have been a stronger argument.
well played. I think I misinterpreted your round 1, and likely chose a wrong resolution for my arguments. Congratulations... assuming no other votes arrive.
I'll give it a go, but I am a tad biased against RMM (understating it I'm sure), so I'll have to take longer that way I can make sure my vote isn't just biased.
Got a lot on my plate at the moment, including several other debates to vote on. Still, might blitz through it if no one else does.
three days left...
one week left
Congratulations, you gave me one of my hardest debates. If this was four rounds, who knows if I would've surrendered... Nicely done.
wooo! things gettin heated and tough! Just about to give up here, gotta dive deeper into my impacts...
oops, accidentally wrote IV backwards
I sense that I have made a mistake by assuming my case was so powerful it could defeat climate change. But unfortunately, my username shackles me to inability to concede. XD
I'm going to counter primarily on the basis that deforestation and climate change due to human activity is.
If you prepare to be against an animal hater or cynic about poaching who'd say it's okay, it will ruin the tone and discussion.
But defining them as non-human is a social construct!
/joke
Yes, includes meat and bones
Would you consider the meat from cattle and chicken farms as apart of this? The definitions seems relatively vague
Done.
Would you mind defining wild life trade? Depending on that I might accept this debate