Instigator / Pro

RationalMadman

1702

rating

574

debates

67.86%

won

Topic

#2592

[Unrated] Furious/PassionatelyAngry Raps. 1 per Round

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Winner

After 1 vote and with 1 point ahead, the winner is...

MisterChris

Tags

Music

Parameters

Publication date: 11.05.2020 12:01AM
Last updated date: 11.23.2020 03:14AM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 5
Time for argument: Two days
Max argument characters: 1,000
Voting period: Two weeks
Point system: Winner selection
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

MisterChris

1762

rating

debates

88.89%

won

Description

1 song per round.

Round 1

RationalMadman

11.05.2020 12:17AM

Pro

Song: Release the Kraken

Artist: Damien

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2lbSox_13M

https://open.spotify.com/track/0tCUqpr6tB0qgynYMeb8eU

https://music.apple.com/us/album/release-the-kraken-single/1528985576

MisterChris

11.06.2020 08:36PM

Con

Song: Ill Mind of Hopsin 7

Artist: Hopsin

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBsA2ETp7JA

The song details Hopsin's struggles with religion and the deep philosophical questions that come with it. It ends in climax with Hopsin angrily yelling at the sky, expressing his frustration with God.

In an interview with Hard Knock TV, Hopsin said:

I made the ‘Ill Mind 7’ just talking about how I kinda' like fell out of Christianity and the reasons why I question everything. The song is still a cry for help in a way where [I’m saying] God, I want you to be real, I want you to be real but I just can’t trust human beings. So please like tell me something.

He concludes in the song:

We are you, and you’re us — stop playin' games!
My life’s all I got, and Heaven is all in my brain
And when I feel I'm in Hell, my ideas are what get me through pain
Do as you please, and I’ll just do me
I’m a human, I’ll stay in my lane; Ill mind

Round 2

RationalMadman

11.06.2020 11:24PM

Pro

This is about angry, furious raps where it's true we could focus on deep sad-angry type raps with depth to them. I don't think it's necessary for me to match my opponetn in that category though. I will not try to 'match' the philosophical depth necessarily of his raps but if you follow the actual wordplay and lyricism, that was not Hopsin's finest.

There's a lot more to rap and music than simply how 'deep' the topic of discussion is. I want to give you raps that please your ear to the point of 'eargasm', make you incapable of escaping the euphoric rage that the rap's vibe is infused with.

the mood or character of a place, situation, or piece of music

Cambridge - Vibe

I focus on everything, melody, flow, tempo, wordplay, all of it!

Song: The Vice of Killing

Artist(s): Heavy Metal Kings ft. Reef the Lost Cauze and Sabac Red.

HMK is Vinnie Paz and ILL Bill

Youtube

Spotify

Apple Music

MisterChris

11.06.2020 11:53PM

Con

Keep in mind that CON in no way said that "message is the be all and end all of music." CON wouldn't share the track if it didn't have a good vibe, decent lyricism and everything else.

But whether PRO likes it or not, meaning is the best objective measure of a song. At their best, angry raps with true substance don't just make you vibe, they make you feel the anger and the frustration that the rapper is feeling and they make you think. The message stays constant and it stays important no matter who is listening. As for the vibe, whether someone likes the vibe or not will change, and intense wordplay is unimportant except for purely showing off. There is no lasting impression on the listener other than "I am best." But don't be fooled, "philosophy" isn't the only area a song can have meaning.

For example, in NWA - fuck the police, the rappers give very relevant commentary on black-police relations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5fts7bj-so&feature=emb_title&has_verified=1

Round 3

RationalMadman

11.07.2020 12:07AM

Pro

But whether PRO likes it or not, meaning is the best objective measure of a song.

I completely disagree with Con on this.

I will leave it at that and let the angry raps speak for themselves. I am aiming to please the audience and convey a vibe and ear-pleasing level that Con's raps won't compete with, it's up to you as a voter to decide what gets you vibing harder and enjoying the angry/furious song you're listening to more.

Also, just to be clear, it's not objectively superior to have any topic of rap at all. It is in fact not objectively inferior to have a party-bop 'sex, money and drugs' type rap than a rap about one's political views or internal emotional struggle. It is subjectivity that gives beauty and depth to a masterpiece, entirely so.

Vote for whose raps you like more and feel convey anger better, if the topic being philosophy makes you do that, so be it.

Song: Exposed

Artist: Russ

YouTube

Spotify

Apple Music

MisterChris

11.07.2020 06:32PM

Con

I will leave it at that and let the angry raps speak for themselves...

PRO drops CON's assessment of how "vibe" and "wordplay" are bad measures of song quality.

It is in fact not objectively inferior to have a party-bop 'sex, money and drugs' type rap than a rap about one's political views or internal emotional struggle. It is subjectivity that gives beauty and depth to a masterpiece, entirely so.

There will be an element of subjectivity in music taste. However, there are topics with more objective importance and impact, and talking about those topics makes the listener on balance feel more intense emotion when listening. This isn't just limited to sad/angry raps, happy raps can talk about important topics too... but this isn't a happy rap battle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdLLRj1Ge7g

Here NF details his struggles with fear and his emotions.

He says on Twitter:

I honestly was shaking in the studio when I recorded INTRO III…. so real for me.

Round 4

RationalMadman

11.08.2020 06:35PM

Pro

I have dropped absolutely no points and frankly Con is playing really dirty and irritating at this point. I have made crystal clear what I think this debate should be about and it's up to you as a voter to decide which raps are superior at the theme, not up to Con or myself to tell you what your taste should be.

I have dropped absolutely no points, wordplay and flow should be involved but which wordplay and flow you find superior is up to you, as is the weight you give each.

Song: Therapy Session

Artist: NF

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgMzxQW2raE

https://open.spotify.com/track/6WKk8l8EXiwPBYlmSlhZWx

https://music.apple.com/us/album/therapy-session/1440845435?i=1440845894

As with all Rounds, I let the raps speak for themselves, I don't need to tell you what an artist says about their own song.

MisterChris

11.08.2020 07:28PM

Con

I have dropped absolutely no points and frankly Con is playing really dirty and irritating at this point... it's up to you as a voter to decide which raps are superior at the theme, not up to Con or myself to tell you what your taste should be.

Keep in mind that CON did not instigate the "what is more important about music" debate. PRO did.

All CON did in R1 was give a song and some background about it. In response PRO challenged whether CON's choice was truly better. CON responded accordingly. Now that PRO has made their bed, they ditch their original argument entirely and say CON is "playing dirty" when in reality CON simply chose the best quality song they could... the whole point of this debate. 🤷

NF - How Could You Leave Us

In this track, NF navigates his feelings regarding the death of his mother due to drug usage.

NF says: "I was bawling my eyes out in the studio. I had my producer leave the studio and I just talked over the beat which is what you hear in the song."

Round 5

RationalMadman

11.09.2020 12:41AM

Pro

Song: Raw Thoughts II

Artist: Chris Webby

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHhSmwAlY88

https://open.spotify.com/track/0ljQKu8J7ZqmIlA84RTmOM

https://music.apple.com/album/raw-thoughts-ii-single/1329058152

MisterChris

11.09.2020 03:14AM

Con

#10

Song: The Way I Am

Eminem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWmG0ZsUAag

Here Eminem angrily raps in response to the bashing of the media and the pressure of labels and fans to act a certain way. He says he won't change due to the pressure of others, and essentially gives the middle finger to the media that seem all too keen on blaming events like school shootings on him.

seldiora

11.09.2020 03:59AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Winner

1 point(s)

Reason:

R1: I liked Pro slightly more
R2: I preferred pro
R3: I prefer con
R4: Con slightly better
R5: I liked con more