Instigator / Pro

seldiora

1417

rating

158

debates

32.59%

won

Topic

#2517

On Balance United States Should Deport Justin Bieber to Canada

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After 4 votes and with 13 points ahead, the winner is...

RationalMadman

Tags

People

Parameters

Publication date: 10.18.2020 04:05AM
Last updated date: 11.21.2020 03:03AM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 4
Time for argument: Two days
Max argument characters: 5,000
Voting period: One month
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

RationalMadman

1702

rating

574

debates

67.86%

won

Description

Deport: Expelled from the country. Assume that this is entirely possible and even legal.

Round 1

seldiora

10.18.2020 05:02AM

Pro

I will literally copy my old case about how JB deserved to have death penalty and apply it here. Getting deported does not mean JB had to done things on a national security level, he only had to commit enough negativity that US thinks it's another country's problem.

Anyhow, reasons why JB should be given Death Penalty, er, I mean, deported to Canada:

1. He does what he wants and ain't stopping

He assaulted a limousine driver himself. [1] He was supposed to go to an Anger management class for his atrocious mental out lashes. [2] Bieber even acts like a little baby and eggs another woman for seemingly no reason. [3] Seriously, dude? I mean, the damages seem to be worth $20,000!! That's a lot. Imagine what damage JB could do to other houses with eggs and manage to get away with everything. JB also has done 18 shocking incidents that even further prove what cruel, malicious intent this man has. [7] He also smokes marijuana and consumes prescription medication, and was found to be on drugs, drunk when he was driving. [4] Think about it! It's lucky we stopped him in time. He could have killed a load of people with that car. He's a murderer in progress! Stop him before he continues!

2. Everybody hates him
Why should we keep a person that we hate? In fact, why should we keep a person that everybody hates? JB is more well known with his haters rather than his fans. [5] One good example is his most infamous video, Baby, the video which is presented above. He has twice as many haters as fans, based on the dislike: like ratio. Plus, people would probably want to get rid of him anyways. The odds are turning against Justin. Even his good old fans are turning into his haters. [8] In addition, people already want to kill him. [11] Thus, we can conclude we must rid of this terrible being, the only way to do that is...prevent US citizens from committing murder by helping him go back to his original country.

3. He already is consuming jail resources

JB has already managed to get out of going to jail once. [9] Nothing suggests that he won't be able to avoid even more jail time (which can be costly to US). In addition, with so much fans out there, even though we can stop the protests, we can't stop the people that might get him out and corrupt him to become worse than he already is and hate the government and not just be arrogant and spit on his fans. Although doing nothing may be cheaper, it's not manageable and JB can continually kill people. Wait-- did I just say that Justin killed people? Yeah, that's right.

4. Deporting is just
Now, speaking morality, you're probably like "no way did JB kill anybody.". But you are incorrect. JB ran over some poor photographer, killing him. [10] Justin Bieber must be deported. He is not only a terrible person who ruin lies of others, but himself as well. Keeping him is no option. He won't justify his migration into the US and we have perfect capacity to deport those who would repeatedly offend the mass public and have come here only to intrude on US ground. I see no problem with JB being deported. He will not suffer. Move him back in with his parents, who will look over his actions better so that he will stop going to jail, become a better person, and perhaps regain his fame.

RationalMadman

10.20.2020 12:50AM

Con

The last contention of Pro is pure libel/defamation as that paparazzi guy was run over by a vehicle that wasn't actually Bieber's at all. Instead, the incident involves a stalker Paparazzi who was so desperate to peer into the car window of Bieber's private, tinted vehicle that another vehicle on the other side of the road wasn't able to slam the brakes in time. Many celebrities came out speaking about how this is toxic Paparazzi behaviour that they've encouraged to have some laws regarding for both the safety of the celebrities and the paparazzi. The source that Pro links to says all this if you read it all; Bieber never ran anyone over.

I disregard his entire final contention on the basis that his own source backs me up. If necessary, I'll give more sources on the matter as it was by reading other sources surrounding this incident that I found that many celebrities had been angry about the Paparazzi stalking Bieber and explained that the driver who didn't slam his/her brakes in time was hardly to blame as the guy quite simply jumped into the street to get a photo and had been stalking Bieber for several days just to catch a shot of Bieber smoking a blunt it seems.

The fourth contention is entitled 'deporting is just' but the actual contention that is written below that fallacious title is one that speaks of Bieber as if he is a murderer and this is seriously not funny nor acceptable trolling. Pro is committing actual libel and defamation offences to Justin Bieber in order to win this debate and I, as Con of this debate and RM outside of it, will not stand for this and am 100% forcing Pro to take it back and apologise.

As for the first two contentions, I am not even necessarily disagreeing with them as such because I can make a very interesting and passionate case for not deporting Bieber that somewhat agrees with the first two contentions.

Regarding the third contention, Pro has shot himself in the foot so to speak because he argues that Bieber is wasting prison/jail resources yet than explains how Bieber efficiently ensures he doesn't waste the taxpayer's money by getting himself free ASAP. The entire third contention is also very vague and trying to paint a picture of Bieber as if he is a criminal on the loose. This is extremely serious to suggest, especially as so many males in showbusiness have been exposed with #metoo encouraging victims of harassment to come out. Bieber is currently accused by 2 women for such things and is suing them for defamation but I am not here as his lawyer on that matter or to pick a side. I will say that we don't know if it's true and furthermore will state that this is not sufficient reason to deport him, especially as he hasn't been found guilty. I am not here to sympathise with him if he really did it but instead to explore what pressures come onto someone as a child celebrity and the kind of life Bieber has had which lead me to actually somewhat agree with Pro's first two contentions.

In his latest single and music video Lonely, he begins to show us what it was like to be him this whole time. Imagine what it was like to be a 15-16 year old with the world telling you to kill yourself because your voice is high pitched and they loathe you for being so girly and annoying to them. Imagine what it was like to be harassed by paparazzi nonstop and the one time you have enough of it, they film you lashing out and laugh as they paint you the villain. Bieber had a life of pure bullying, hatred and 'why can't you take Bieber and give us back John Lennon' type comments that imply he should be dead, literally killed by God himself, just because we can't come to terms with the loss of musicians we may hold to produce superior music to Bieber.

Imagine the kind of courage it takes to withstand that, to not only avoid attempting suicide but furthermore to have the guts to come out on stage, keep releasing music and never once let the haters get the better of you? Imagine which nation, USA or Canada, supports this unapologetic, raw courage more...

I think America should applaud Bieber for his courage, for living his own life with the brave spirit that the First Amendment and 'American Dream' ethos entail. He was the world's single biggest media-harassment victim for an entire 2-3 years despite being only 15-16 with people genuinely encouraging him to off himself just because his song happened to annoy them, yet he made it and damn did he make it big. He is authentic, brave and if you hate him and think that entitles you to bully him and encourage him to suicide, you are the type people who should be deported.

Round 2

seldiora

10.20.2020 02:34AM

Pro

con's argument is kind of double edged, it shows that JB is a figure who doesn't deserve all the hate and the infamy from the things he did in US. But if he goes back to Canada, he'll have a clean crime record relative to the country, and he can live his brand new life without worry. We know that 100,000+ Americans signed a petition to try to deport him (https://www.cnn.com/2014/01/29/showbiz/celebrity-news-gossip/bieber-deport-petition-ew/index.html). JB himself has also responded very kindly to his decision to move back to Canada:

"Justin Bieber has been enjoying married life in his native home country!

“Justin loves being in Canada because it’s very peaceful. He can take Hailey out and it’s not a mess with photographers,” a source recently told PEOPLE.

“They are much more left alone. They seem very happy together,” the source said.

In fact, Canada was the place where the Biebers celebrated their first Thanksgiving as a married couple. Not only did the holiday mark their first holiday since they secretly wed in September, but it was also a family gathering to celebrate the model’s 22nd birthday on Nov. 22.

“They had a small birthday celebration for Hailey with his family and spent the rest of the weekend relaxing in Canada,” the source added of the pair who were spotted packing on the PDA at a Stratford Warriors hockey game on Saturday.

While Justin, 24, and Hailey also spend much of their time together in Los Angeles and New York City, it appears the Stratford-born pop star may be looking to set down roots in Canada.

In August, Bieber bought a sprawling 101-acre property in Ontario for $5 million, according to multiple reports. The purchase of the four bedrooms, six bathrooms mansion came less than one month after he proposed to his future wife in July.

Along with splitting their time between the U.S. and Canada, the Biebers have been finally publicly embracing their new relationship status.

“After being married for a few weeks, they both realized that they actually felt like husband and wife without having a religious ceremony,” the source said.

“They want to openly celebrate their marriage,” the source shared. “This is why Hailey decided to change her name. She loves being married to Justin. They are still planning a wedding and a religious ceremony.”"

JB has also expressed his own dislike of the American health system from an interview long ago-- " Justin Bieber has told Rolling Stone magazine that he'll never become a U.S. citizen because he cherishes Canada's health-care system.
"You guys are evil," he laughingly told the magazine in a cover story that hits stands Friday.
"Canada's the best country in the world. We go to the doctor and we don't need to worry about paying him, but here, your whole life, you're broke because of medical bills. My bodyguard's baby was premature, and now he has to pay for it. In Canada, if your baby's premature, he stays in the hospital as long as he needs to, and then you go home."

As you can see from his moving to Canada he has gained nothing but benefits. Since he himself wants to be in Canada, why not fulfill his wish? Expel him from US to protect himself, if not ourselves.

RationalMadman

10.22.2020 02:33AM

Con

Justin Bieber is known to have applied for dual Citizenship in 2018 (and there are no reports that his applications failed).

Bieber has a green card and has lived in Atlanta since he was 13. America is the country where he first gained fame for his work and Bieber spends most of his time here, an upcoming wedding all the more reason to finalize his relationship with the United States. There are five steps to becoming a citizen, including undergoing a background check, providing proof he has a right to be here, and getting grilled on all sorts of American history while proving he knows how to speak English.

Vanity Fair

As for the process ... there are 5 relevant steps:
-- Proof he has a right to be in the country. Justin does ... he has a green card.
-- File USCIS Form N-400 ... a formal request to start the naturalization process. BTW, it costs around $700, but we're guessing he can afford it.
-- Background check by the FBI and fingerprinting.
-- Citizenship interview. During the interview, Justin will have to answer questions about U.S. history and government and also prove he knows English.
-- Appear at an oath ceremony and pledge allegiance to the U.S.

TMZ

What is deportation and what warrants it?

In Round 1, I spend a great deal of time addressing the libel which accused Bieber of murder. It seems Pro is dropping these points and is trying to paint a picture of Bieber as a 'bad guy in general' which I said is more of an American ethos, considering the First Amendment encourages people to allow others to say and do whatevger they want so long as it doesn't directly harm. Even if Bieber were annoying to Americans, this doesn't warrant deportation.

Deportation is the formal removal of a foreign national from the U.S. for violating an immigration law.
The Deportation Process
The United States may deport foreign nationals who participate in criminal acts, are a threat to public safety, or violate their visa.
Those who come to the U.S. without travel documents or with forged documents may be deported quickly without an immigration court hearing under an order of expedited removal (PDF, Download Adobe Reader). Others may go before a judge in a longer deportation (removal) process.
The foreign national may be held in a detention center prior to trial or deportation. See a map of ICE detention facilities or use the ICE Online Detainee Locator System.
An Immigration Court of the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) hears the related case.
If a judge rules that the deportation proceeds, the receiving country of the person being deported must agree to accept them and issue travel documents before the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) carries out a removal order.
The majority of removals are carried out by air at U.S. government expense, although some removals may use a combination of air and ground transportation. Learn more about the removal of deported foreign nationals by air.
Criminal aliens who have committed nonviolent crimes may be subject to Rapid REPAT.

USA.Gov

Pro gives no evidence Bieber has violated said laws, he dropped the murder charges.

Bieber's music and courage is loved and admired by many, he isn't all bad

He buys roses for fans outside nightclubs
Justin wooed fans in London on his current tour when he handed out roses outside a nightclub, following his sold-out show at The O2. He was seen buying roses from a street vendor and handing out red, white and pink flowers to fans waiting outside the bar where he was partying.

Justin Bieber has worked closely with the Make A Wish foundation during his career and is believed to have granted wishes for more than 250 terminally ill fans through the organisation.

"It's a blessing" he says of meeting his young fans - many of whom are left in tears after meeting their idol.
He backed a charity single to get to No.1 instead of his own

Justin has one or two followers on Twitter (89 million, if you want to be exact) and in 2015, when he was locked in a battle for the UK Christmas No.1, he told fans not to buy his single.

Instead he asked them to buy the NHS charity single instead. It worked, A Bridge Over You was Christmas No.1 and peace and harmony reigned.

He reportedly donated $545,000 to an AIDS research charity
In 2014, Justin Bieber made a donation to AIDS research charity, amfAR. This wasn't a standing order for £5 a month, he donated $545,000 dollars during an event the charity was hosting in Cannes, France. He gave away the clothes he was wearing.

He bought new iPhones for two mega-fans in New York
In February 2014, two Justin Bieber fans were in the New York Apple Store, watching the video for Justin's Confident single on display phones in the store. As well as posing for photos with the girls, he also bought each of them a brand new iPhone. He helped raise awareness of the importance of arts eduction in schools.

Round 3

seldiora

10.22.2020 02:34AM

Pro

I concede.

RationalMadman

10.22.2020 02:41AM

Con

Sorry to BBC Radio 1, I forgot to link this source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/2mj4MvPGB6RBlMXBV6MGdzz/7-timely-reminders-that-justin-bieber-is-a-good-human-being

This is the source for my final quote of Round 2. Pro has conceded but I would still like to address his points.

Opposing the corrupt, capitalist elements in American society does not make you less of an American.

A major contention in Pro's Round 2 is that because Bieber has found fault in America's right-wing corrupt ways of denying the poor healthcare, that he's less of an American. This right-wing bigoted mentality is not acceptable and is creating divisions in America that weren't there before, thanks to the abusive way Trump 'debates' and campaigns by alienating a huge chunk of America in order to so-called 'unite' the right-wing fanatics against them.

It is verging on outright jingoism (but in this case not racism) to say an immigrant can't feel pride and joy in their original nation's culture.

Bieber has pride and joy in his Canadian culture. Since he's caucasian, I won't suggest this is racist but this jingoistic mentality is applied to many non-white immigrants and goes along with 'send them back home' remarks. If a Kenyan or Indian immigrant were proud of their culture, who is Pro to discriminate against them for it and say they should be deported?

Round 4

seldiora

10.22.2020 02:45AM

Pro

ded

RationalMadman

10.22.2020 03:03AM

Con

Okay

TheUnderdog

10.20.2020 02:49PM

I don't believe in deportations. Foreign criminals should go to jail for their crimes.

Intelligence_06

10.19.2020 01:29AM

-->

@seldiora

Why deport? Justin Bieber will be regarded more of an asshole in Canada than the US. We got Prisons for all kinds of things. Annoying those people that deserve no better is better than the millions who deserve better.

Intelligence_06

10.18.2020 10:35PM

-->

@Jarrett_Ludolph

Idk, someone I have debated says that holidays are religions, and the same guy said that white supremacy is not wrong, as well as that atheists are religious.

Jarrett_Ludolph

10.18.2020 09:15PM

Why is this a debate

Intelligence_06

10.18.2020 05:38AM

why

MisterChris

10.18.2020 04:18AM

yes

Safalcon7

10.23.2020 01:35PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Concession.

SirAnonymous

10.22.2020 06:45PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Verily, twas a virtu'us surr'nder.

skittlez09

10.22.2020 06:43PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

concession

Barney

10.22.2020 05:16AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Concession.

However, at a glance both sides did a nice job supporting their sides to this one.