Instigator / Pro

seldiora

1417

rating

158

debates

32.59%

won

Topic

#2233

Pro is able to have his arguments describe his own arguments

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After 3 votes and with 7 points ahead, the winner is...

seldiora

Tags

Miscellaneous

Parameters

Publication date: 08.12.2020 04:15PM
Last updated date: 08.27.2020 02:19AM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 3
Time for argument: Two days
Max argument characters: 10,000
Voting period: Two weeks
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

Intelligence_06

1737

rating

172

debates

73.26%

won

Description

just for fun.

In order for pro to win, he must sufficiently describe his arguments (including the idea of describing the description)

Round 1

seldiora

08.12.2020 05:12PM

Pro

Let claim A be considered "At first, it seems impossible for pro to describe his arguments, and describe his descriptions. However, I am a programmer, and English is just another type of language. Though not as purely mathematical or logical, let's have a try, shall we? To describe my argument, I will define my main claim as "Claim A". Easy enough, right? Now then, what follows is relatively simple: I describe my description ahead of time, within the definition of the claim, such that I am able to describe the description. What follows next, would just be Pro states 'Let Claim A be considered' Claim A, then states Claim A, which describes pro using Claim A and describing the description."

Pro states 'Let Claim A be considered' Claim A, then states Claim A, which describes pro using Claim A and describing the description..

Intelligence_06

08.12.2020 06:23PM

Con

I am knotting my brain typing this. Truly big brain. Nevertheless, it is still possible for me to refute.

I will use my opponent's idea for "describe" since I don't feel like playing semantics today.

Claim A fails to say "Pro first states whether it is perceived possible for such a case in the first glance, then respond with stating what Pro's occupation field and what the English language is compared to programming languages". These appears in his argument but remain undescribed.
Claim A describes incorrectly of that "Pro first states 'Let claim A be considered' (claim A)", in which in the assumption of that the last sentence directs to the last sentence of the R1 argument. If else, then the last sentence is being undescribed in Claim A, something generally expected.
Claim A also fails to describe what the description of the debate is. It is only "Then I will describe the description" but he actually never "described" it structurally like everything else provided.
Claim A does not fully describe itself.
Due to that, there are remaining pieces existent in the argument but remain undescribed, thus PRO did not sufficiently describe his own argument with itself.

At first, it seems impossible for pro to describe his arguments, and describe his descriptions. However, I am a programmer, and English is just another type of language. Though not as purely mathematical or logical, let's have a try, shall we? To describe my argument, I will define my main claim as "Claim A". Easy enough, right? Now then, what follows is relatively simple: I describe my description ahead of time, within the definition of the claim, such that I am able to describe the description. What follows next, would just be Pro states 'Let Claim A be considered' Claim A, then states Claim A, which describes pro using Claim A and describing the description.

Nice try. Sadly there are holes.

Round 2

seldiora

08.12.2020 07:21PM

Pro

Well played. I shall try again. Firstly, I congratulate you on finding the holes in my first description of my argument, within my argument, but it will not happen again. Programmers are used to fixing bugs in their arguments, and I believe this new claim fulfills itself very well. I first compliment my opponent and state my desire to try again. I then congratulate my opponent, but provide the counter evidence that I am used to finding errors in my code, and with thorough testing I will hold up that I was able to describe my argument. I will now define Claim B as this entire definition, such that it is describing itself, and fulfilling the burden of proof and defeating my opponent. Then I will say that "Pro defines Claim B, uses Claim B to prove his case, that his argument describes itself, as well as describing its description". Keep in mind that even describing future actions in the argument is still describing it, and that "description of description" would only apply to the description of my argument, not describing the description of the debate itself. Finally, I counter my opponent's arguments by pointing out his flaws in his thinking.

Let Claim B be "Well played. I shall try again. Firstly, I congratulate you on finding the holes in my first description of my argument, within my argument, but it will not happen again. Programmers are used to fixing bugs in their arguments, and I believe this new claim fulfills itself very well. I first compliment my opponent and state my desire to try again. I then congratulate my opponent, but provide the counter evidence that I am used to finding errors in my code, and with thorough testing I will hold up that I was able to describe my argument. I will now define Claim B as this entire definition, such that it is describing itself, and fulfilling the burden of proof and defeating my opponent. Then I will say that 'Pro defines Claim B, uses Claim B to prove his case, that his argument describes itself, as well as describing its description', that his argument describes itself, as well as describing its description. Keep in mind that even describing future actions in the argument is still describing it.and that "description of description" would only apply to the description of my argument, not describing the description of the debate itself. Finally, I counter my opponent's arguments by pointing out his flaws in his thinking. "

Pro defines Claim B, uses Claim B to prove his case, that his argument describes itself, as well as describing its description.

Intelligence_06

08.12.2020 08:15PM

Con

The second example is flawless, forcing me to concede if I don't forfeit consider that after consideration, there is basically no way I could point anything out anymore.

Round 3

seldiora

08.13.2020 01:44AM

Pro

GG (I only had to describe at least one argument describe itself, so I hope you will happily oblige me not going crazy in this round)

Intelligence_06

08.13.2020 02:19AM

Con

Pro has provided one example of an argument that describes itself. I cannot refute it. This debate has come to an end and I thank Seldiora for this debate. Voters can feel free to vote my opponent.

Intelligence_06

08.12.2020 05:26PM

-->

@seldiora

You underestimated my power.

seldiora

08.12.2020 05:15PM

get rekt bro it's an English quine

Intelligence_06

08.12.2020 04:16PM

wtf

Barney

08.23.2020 03:27PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Concession.

There's actually some fairly cool stuff you can do with this type of programming.

SirAnonymous

08.23.2020 01:19PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Concession. I applaud both Pro and Con for being able to create, think through, and analyze such mind-numbing madness. Once I was able to unravel the logic in my head, it was quite entertaining to read. It was really easy to see how Pro's experience in programming helped him in this debate.

MisterChris

08.15.2020 06:14AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

降伏
降伏
降伏
降伏