Instigator / Pro
Intelligence_06's avatar
5
Intelligence_06
1737
rating
172
debates
73.26%
won
Topic
#2172

Astrology accurately explains many things

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
6
Better sources
2
4
Better legibility
2
2
Better conduct
1
2

After 2 votes and with 9 points ahead, the winner is...

shadow_712
Tags
Miscellaneous
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
2
Time for argument
Twelve hours
Max argument characters
10,000
Voting period
One week
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
shadow_712's avatar
14
shadow_712
1489
rating
19
debates
42.11%
won
Description

Definitions:
Astrology: the study of the movements and relative positions of celestial bodies interpreted as having an influence on human affairs and the natural world.

Round 1
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
Pro
#1
Resolution_PRO=Astrology Explains Many Things Accurately
Resolution_CON=Astrology Does Not Explain Many Things Accurately
B_O_P=Shared

DEFINITIONS
Definitions are vital to an argument.

Astrology: Astrology is a pseudoscience that claims to divine information about human affairs and terrestrial events by studying the movements and relative positions of celestial objects.[1, Wikipedia]

Many: A large but indefinite amount of(things).[2, M-W Dictionary]

Indefinite: Having no exact boundaries.[3, M-W Dictionary]

So, my resolution can be altered to that: Astrology can accurately explain an indefinitely large amount of things.

The arguments shall start below. 

  1. Astrology attempts to explain an infinity of events

Astrology, upon its greatest capabilities, can certainly be used to predict the outcome of EVERY SINGLE event on Earth that could happen[4]. This would mean it attempts to explain extremely large amounts of events. Due to alternate universes scientifically existing[5], it could and would mean that nearer alternate universes also have humans inventing astrology and explaining things through it. Since alternate universes branch in ln literally every tick of time we go, it is safe to say that at least extremely large amounts of events are being predicted by astrology.

  1. What is the condition for a thing to be “explained”?

Of course, I agree that astrology is just glorified randomness when looking at a pure-materialistic view. However, astrology does explain many things, and I will get to it later.

To explain something, you need these:
  1. A verdict of whether this thing goes this way or that way(Yes, no, or something else)
  2. An explanation filling the inquiry and the verdict that can be convincing.

According to data within these ten years, 29% of people consider astrology to be believable[6]. So to some, the explanation given by Astrology is, indeed, convincing. This partially satisfies the second criterion, as some events explained by astrology are true(I will get to it later) and convincing towards the point of view of some people.

And yeah, because Astrology’s purpose is literally to explain and give verdicts to stuff under a system of “beliefs”, so it also satisfies the first criterion.

  1. Some things presented from Astrology are actual true events.

Sure, astrology is random, but it gives information to your unconscious mind so you have a better tendency of doing such things, especially if you are the 29% that believes in astrology. People do things that they think are true, and having trust handed to you within this information would have more of a tendency of you doing it. That goes without saying.

And, since this source[7] presents AT LEAST ONE true occasion in which Astrology explanations lead to true events, that would mean it would do for many, consider parallel universes branching every time unit, and that unit is much less than a second. If your predictions become true, then at the split second, millions of true occasions will accumulate into the cumulative record, thus this would mean that actually, astronomical numbers of true events are being verified by astrology. Even if astrology is glorified randomness, a small portion of true events would basically lead to astronomical amounts of predictions being verified by astrology considering quantum mechanics and alternate universes exist, and those who live similar enough to ours would also have predictions that became true. Since everything imaginable can be in an alternate universe, an alternate universe in which astrology is deemed to be objectively true would objectively exist, and that itself would have indefinitely large numbers of accurate explanations, theoretically.

I rest my case.

Conclusions thus now:
  • Alternate universes exist and one accurate prediction by Astrology would be a large amount since alternate universes share similarities.
  • A small percentage of the large picture can still be extremely large amounts.
  • Alternate universes can have completely different properties of matter, so in one AU in which astrology would automatically lead to a true outcome would theoretically exist too, and that in itself constitutes for tremendous amounts of true explanations by Astrology.
  • 29% of the people believe Astrology to be true, so it has believably accurate explanations.
  • Overall, Astrology accurately explains a lot of things theoretically.



Sources:
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology
[2]https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/many
[3]https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/indefinite
[4]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology
[5]https://www.space.com/32728-parallel-universes.html
[6]https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Screen-Shot-2019-11-12-at-1.38.57-AM.png
[7]https://www.quora.com/How-has-astrology-changed-your-life

shadow_712's avatar
shadow_712
Con
#2
PRO left out a key detail of the topic 

explain:make (an idea or situation) clear to someone by describing it in more detail or revealing relevant facts. 


Counter to the arguments: 
a.
Astrology, upon its greatest capabilities, can certainly be used to predict the outcome of EVERY SINGLE event on Earth that could happen[4]. 
A prediction is a mere forecast could be a result of complex mathematical analysis of past events and recent trends or could be a call from the gut, astrology predicts things may turn true might not. 
b.
This would mean it attempts to explain extremely large amounts of events.
To predict something is not equal to explaining something. Astrology may predict a plane will crash, but to explain even scientists and engineers will have to look at flight data from the black box. This is CON's main counter :to predict something has no relation with explaining something. 
Due to alternate universes scientifically existing[5]
PRO's own source: One big question with this theory is: are we the only universe out there? With our current technology, we are limited to observations within this universe because the universe is curved and we are inside the fishbowl, unable to see the outside of it (if there is an outside.)
This is the most controvertial statement made, has no scientific backing. CON dug only to secure source points. With PRO's own source refuting PRO's claim , CON claims source points. 

To explain something, you need these:
  1. A verdict of whether this thing goes this way or that way(Yes, no, or something else)
  2. An explanation filling the inquiry and the verdict that can be convincing.
To explain something a person needs to ascertain the fact and then go out to describe relevant facts. To take the earlier example of plane crash, Jupiter's position at that time has nothing to do with plane crashing but integrity of the fuselage, rudder control, engine functionality and external weather would be examples of relevant facts. 

According to data within these ten years, 29% of people consider astrology to be believable[6].
To believe in something does not mean the thing is explained, same example ask a layman why did the plain crash " I believe it was the weather". Believing does not need one to prove or explain anything. There are people who believe earth is flat, ask them to explain it they will fail miserably. 
PRO's source is in line with faith and faith related studies, only making  CON's counter even more firm .
 same example just assume the plane survived, pilot showed tremendous skill in saving the people, they are actually alive because of him , you can hear atleast one person say ," I believe Jesus saved me". Ask the person to explain how did Jesus save him? He will fail miserably. 
PRO's source is nothing more than a photo, does not detail the sample size of the group when data was collected. Could be only 100 people were asked, that too from the same locality, Without ascertaining what sample size was used how can the result be extrapolated to the entire population. It is not statistically possible. This is unscientific. With this CON again claims source points. 

And, since this source[7] presents AT LEAST ONE true occasion in which Astrology explanations lead to true events, that would mean it would do for many, consider parallel universes branching every time unit, and that unit is much less than a second. If your predictions become true, then at the split second, millions of true occasions will accumulate into the cumulative record, thus this would mean that actually, astronomical numbers of true events are being verified by astrology. 

PRO can write on quora, PRO has killed 1500 tigers and smashed 2000 elephant skulls with his bare fists. A quora reply is no way to ascertain whether the thing actually happened. Same example has PRO killed 1500 tigers ? definitely not. Parallel universe point too successfully refuted. Thus PRO has no basis to make his case. 

FRESH ARGUMENTS

CON will kill PRO's case with a single result: This is a study by Department of Physics, UC Berkeley one of the most prestigious universities in the world. 

Quoting from the study (read if you are  associated from STEM fields and have a rudimentary knowledge of statistics) 
" What is striking about these data is how poorly astrologers performed, when their performance is compared to their predicted rate.It is very consistent with chance,and is at a very significant 3.3 s.d. level below the astrologers prediction.This is well beyond the 2.5 s.d requirement we established before the beginning of the experiment as sufficient to refute astrological hypothesis.
Before the data had been analysed, we decided to test to see if the astrologers could select the correct CPI profile as either their first or second choice at higher than expected rate. The scientific hypothesis predicts CPI will fall in the first or second choice 66% of the time. The astrologers did not make a specific prediction as to what they expected the rate to be.If the correct CPI is chosen in the first and second place choices, then they will be depleted from the third place choice. Since the rrate at which the astrologers chose the correct CPI as their third place choice was consistent with chance, we conclude that the astrologers were unable to chose the correct CPI as their first or second choice at a significant level. "
S.d. =Standard deviation. 
CPI = California personality Index. 

(read if you are not associated with STEM fields and dont know statistics) : Basically the result meant, astrologers prediction is close to chance and that the study concluded that astrologers cannot predict anything and the possibility of their prediction coming true is consistent with a random chance. 

CONCLUSION: Department of Physics, UC Berkeley conducted the study, study proved astrology can neither predict nor explain anything. 4 departments are ranked higher than UC Berkeley : Stanford,MIT, Oxford and Cambridge, unless CON can cite results from these 4 he has lost the debate. 
Round 2
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
Pro
#3
No rebuttals needed since shifting tactics are much more effective than to fight with the exact same strategy. Fighting for a piece of gold is much less effective than to find another.

1. Language

Semantics would pretty much help me in this case, consider the definition is this, and both I and CON presumably agree on it.

Astrology: the study of the movements and relative positions of celestial bodies interpreted as having an influence on human affairs and the natural world.
Any terrestrial events caused by the movement and position of astronomical objects would be related to astrology, according to the very definition itself. That would mean, tide patterns(caused by the movement and positions of the sun and moon), seasons(caused by the Earth and the Sun), earthquakes(caused by the earth, which still IS a celestial body), and even asteroid attacks(caused by asteroids attacking the earth, which both are celestial bodies). Every geological and astronomical event is technically still caused by astrology because as long as the movement of celestial bodies causes changes in human civilizations, it is astrology working. Astrology is far more than just "You are a Pisces, I don't want to be friends with you). In fact, to the definition itself, any reactions caused by the observations of celestial bodies COUNTS as astrology because it is the positions and movements of celestial bodies so it is visible, and it causes happiness to the observer, thus it is celestial bodies' movements having an influence on human affairs(a procedure of events, and in this case, said discoverer would gain popularity in the astronomy world, and it encourages others to discover astronomical objects...). It is the celestial bodies themselves that constitute astronomy, while what happens to our environment is dictated by astrology. 

Everything we perceive out of the celestial bodies is constituted by astrology, by the very own definition. Every change out of the environment because of the celestial bodies is astrology. Geology, parts of anthropology(which are what mainstream media refers to as "astrology"), hydrology, and even environmental studies are owned by astrology because at least one celestial bodies' movement and position constitute its entire existence, and it can potentially change how we see the natural world or even human affairs.

Conclusions:
  • The requirement for something to be related to astrology is that:
    • It requires at least one celestial body
    • And it needs to have an influence on the natural world and human affairs
  • Thus, all studies about the Earth would be owned by Astrology.
  • These studies are science, which explains things accurately,
  • Thus, studies of Planet Earth, which counts as a part of astrology, and are factually accurate and explain lots of things(many), would support my view:
  • Astrology accurately explains many things.
I rest my case. No sources needed.

shadow_712's avatar
shadow_712
Con
#4
CON will try to segregate PRO's fresh arguments, 
Any terrestrial events caused by the movement and position of astronomical objects would be related to astrology, according to the very definition itself. That would mean, tide patterns(caused by the movement and positions of the sun and moon), seasons(caused by the Earth and the Sun), earthquakes(caused by the earth, which still IS a celestial body), and even asteroid attacks(caused by asteroids attacking the earth, which both are celestial bodies). Every geological and astronomical event is technically still caused by astrology because as long as the movement of celestial bodies causes changes in human civilizations, it is astrology working
Seasons are fixed, as for Tides no one can predict tides since wind speed and atmospheric pressure during the given timeframe are impossible to ascertain. Without Geological help, an astrologer has no hope or device to ascertain, what position the bodies are in.Bodies as in the Sun,the Earth, etc. Since they cannot even identify the relative position in the first place, they have no basis to explain any phenomenon. 
Earthquakes: 
There is no mechanism or device on earth that predict an earthquake correctly, Tectonic plates clash and collide continuously and release energy sporadically when the collition has caused too much built up energy stored, causing mountains to increase in height( generally) , Scientists have been trying to predict earthquakes but no avail, they can only predict if the energy is building up but can never predict the exact moment of an earthquake. Explaining it is easy they will have to see reading of Siesmometer reading and ascertain it, all of it is done after earthquake has happened. Astrology has no role in it. 
Asteroids: Again astrology has no device to ascretain the extact position of an astoroid without the help of an astrophysicist it is virtually impossible for a astrologer to know the position of an asteroid. 

 In fact, to the definition itself, any reactions caused by the observations of celestial bodies COUNTS as astrology because it is the positions and movements of celestial bodies so it is visible, and it causes happiness to the observer, thus it is celestial bodies' movements having an influence on human affairs(a procedure of events, and in this case, said discoverer would gain popularity in the astronomy world, and it encourages others to discover astronomical objects...). It is the celestial bodies themselves that constitute astronomy, while what happens to our environment is dictated by astrology. 
This is definition of astronomy not of astrology. 
Astronomy:Astronomy (from Greek: ἀστρονομία) is a natural science that studies celestial objects and phenomena. It uses mathematics, physics, and chemistry in order to explain their origin and evolution. Objects of interest include planets, moons, stars, nebulae, galaxies, and comets. Relevant phenomena include supernova explosions, gamma ray bursts, quasars, blazars, pulsars, and cosmic microwave background radiation. More generally, astronomy studies everything that originates outside Earth's atmosphere. Cosmology is a branch of astronomy. It studies the Universe as a whole.

Previously CON has already made a single case to kill PRO's case, study has been done, result is out. 
CON will kill PRO's case with a single result: This is a study by Department of Physics, UC Berkeley one of the most prestigious universities in the world. 

Quoting from the study (read if you are  associated from STEM fields and have a rudimentary knowledge of statistics) 
" What is striking about these data is how poorly astrologers performed, when their performance is compared to their predicted rate.It is very consistent with chance,and is at a very significant 3.3 s.d. level below the astrologers prediction.This is well beyond the 2.5 s.d requirement we established before the beginning of the experiment as sufficient to refute astrological hypothesis.
Before the data had been analysed, we decided to test to see if the astrologers could select the correct CPI profile as either their first or second choice at higher than expected rate. The scientific hypothesis predicts CPI will fall in the first or second choice 66% of the time. The astrologers did not make a specific prediction as to what they expected the rate to be.If the correct CPI is chosen in the first and second place choices, then they will be depleted from the third place choice. Since the rrate at which the astrologers chose the correct CPI as their third place choice was consistent with chance, we conclude that the astrologers were unable to chose the correct CPI as their first or second choice at a significant level. "
S.d. =Standard deviation. 
CPI = California personality Index. 

(read if you are not associated with STEM fields and dont know statistics) : Basically the result meant, astrologers prediction is close to chance and that the study concluded that astrologers cannot predict anything and the possibility of their prediction coming true is consistent with a random chance. 

CONCLUSION: Science has proven Astrology has no basis to predict or explain anything. Study was conducted in one of the most prestigious universities of the world( UC, Berkeley)
VOTE CON.