Instigator / Pro

Ghostofsinnerspast

1480

rating

debates

0.0%

won

Topic

#2080

Reason and Christian Faith are most assuredly friends. Change my mind.

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

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After 5 votes and with 23 points ahead, the winner is...

User_2006

Tags

Religion

Parameters

Publication date: 06.11.2020 04:07AM
Last updated date: 09.24.2020 04:21PM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 4
Time for argument: Two weeks
Max argument characters: 20,000
Voting period: One week
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

User_2006

1470

rating

debates

40.0%

won

Description

All reasonable men endowed with the blessing of faith are in no contradiction one to the other. All faithful men endowed with the light of reason are indeed at harmony in and among themselves. For there exist no tension or opposition between faith and reason. Indeed, the Christian religion is most reasonable and becoming of the intellect.

Round 1

Ghostofsinnerspast

06.25.2020 02:02PM

Pro

Forfeited

User_2006

06.25.2020 04:21PM

Con

PRO was given 14 days to write his argument, but he forfeited. Shame on him.

CON will present why Reason and Christian Faith does not go hand in hand, i.e Christian Faith is, indeed, not rational.

Because PRO did not define anything, CON will take this good opportunity to define the terms before PRO.

Christian Faith: conformity to the Christian religion
Reason: a rational ground or motive
Assuredly: without a doubt, Certainly
Friend: Two persons or things that go hand in hand and/or related

I could blabber about semantics all day and use definitions that clearly makes zero sense, but come on, that's not even close to a good constructive argument. However, whatever CON defined in this wall of text is used unless PRO can put constructive criticism on said definitions and define it in his own manner.

Argument Round I: Unreason in the Bible itself

The bible has contradictions that even I, as a common atheist, can tell.

Must all of us at any time keep the sabbath day holy?

Yes: “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8
No: “One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5

Should we ever get revenge?

Yes: “…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25
No: “…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39

Is Circumcision any beneficial?

Yes: “This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.” — Genesis 17:10
No: “…if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” — Galatians 5:2

The dead stay dead?

Yes: “…he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. ” — Job 7:9
No: “…the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth….” — John 5:28-29

Does the Earth ever get destroyed?

No: “… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4
Yes: “… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10

Is Incest OK?

No: “And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter…it is a wicked thing….” — Leviticus 20:17
Yes: “And God said unto Abraham, As for Sara thy wife…I bless her, and give thee a son also of her…” — Genesis 17:15-16

Has anyone seen God?

Yes: “… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30
No: “No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18

With so many contradictions just listed here, CON has shown, at times, Christian faith is NOT REASONABLE. I ask PRO:

How is something rational/reasonable when it contradicts itself?

It is perfectly understandable that PRO has an explanation of EVERY SINGLE THING on the Bible for God's sake. He can explain regardless of how elaborate or skewed the explanation is. However, the explanation is not on the bible, it is on PRO or other Christians. The Bible had provided ZERO reasons for the issues above, and that would mean, that the Bible, in instances, the bible is unreasonable. Something isn't reasonable when it can't explain itself, especially if it is inconsistent and requires other people to rationalize it.

Yes, if Christians like PRO states, it may be a part of Christian Faith, but stating that any talk related to Christianity is a Christian faith, then criticizing the Bible itself would also be Christian faith, despite, in reality, it is categorized as Atheism or as other religions/beliefs. In Fact, Faith is not sustainable as if it can be reasonably proven, it would not be Faith anymore, even if Christianity is correct, which sometimes it is NOT.

PRO may come back with a resolution that states: "A small part of unreason does not make the whole thing not reasonable". However, PRO's BoP is that he needs to prove that Christian Faith is MOST ASSUREDLY friends, and that means, WITHOUT A DOUBT, or 100%, according to the very definition of the words themselves. CON has proven at least one occasion where Christian Faith and Reason does not go hand in hand, and that would mean the Two are not 100%, Most confidently, Without a doubt, friends.

CON's definition for "Friend" is completely improvised because CON himself knows what PRO is trying to convey. Semantics-wise, two abstract, non-human, arbitrary, and untangible things cannot be friends, especially how PRO has used this very word on the title page of this debate. See M-W Dictionary

Conclusions:

Bible, in parts, is Unreasonable.
Thus, Christian Faith and Reason aren't most assuredly friends.
Christian Faith cannot be assuredly proven, and if it can be reasonably proven, it is not faith at all.
PRO has forfeited and he should come back if he wants to win.

Sources:

Definitions:

Explanations: