Instigator / Pro
0
1360
rating
19
debates
0.0%
won
Topic
#1895
As a businessman, Donald Trump distinguished himself with endless bankruptcies
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After 7 votes and with 49 points ahead, the winner is...
Barney
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 2
- Time for argument
- Two days
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- Two weeks
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
49
1815
rating
53
debates
100.0%
won
Description
Given the opportunity, Trump might also bankrupt the United States.
Round 1
Forfeited
My opponent has submitted the following argument via the comment section:
I put nothing past Donald Trump. It wouldn't surprise me if he declares bankruptcy invalidating all US debt.Trump only cares about himself. If he can profit from a bankruptcy, he will do it.
Rebuttals:
"It wouldn't surprise me if he declares bankruptcy invalidating all US debt."
Irrelevant. As much as many would praise such a policy of debt abolition in these troubled times.
"Trump only cares about himself"
Irrelevant. I don't need to prove he cares about anything, as that is not the topic at hand. This is a red herring at best [1].
"If he can profit from a bankruptcy, he will do it."
Irrelevant. What he would hypothetically do, has no baring on what distinguished him as a businessman.
My Case:
No personal bankruptcies
The topic refers to "himself," meaning the "endless bankruptcies" should be impacting him. If endlessly bankrupt, it would be self evident by him living on the street or couch surfing, instead of living at at the single most well known address in the world of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
The fact is he has never been bankrupted. The lowest his wealth has ever been estimated to fall was to $150 million [2]; when if any of us had 1% of that, we would never have to work another day in our lives.
Comparatively, many other billionaires have become truly bankrupt [3].
Few businesses bankruptcies
The Trump Group was taken over by Donald Trump in 1971, which he lead until 2017. In those 46 years, only six out of about 500 of the companies he owns filed for bankruptcy [4] . Were it even one per year it might be defining, as is, that's an abysmally low rate of bankruptcy for businesses. In fact of new businesses, only 25% survive even 15 years [5]. This means as a businessman he is literally distinguished for the opposite of what the resolution claims.
Sources:
- https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Red_herring
- https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/04/weve-been-trying-figure-out-how-much-trump-worth-20-years/349875/
- https://www.businessinsider.com/rich-billionaires-who-declared-bankruptcy-2019-7
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trump_Organization
- https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/1010/top-6-reasons-new-businesses-fail.aspx
Round 2
Forfeited
As previously stated: "as a businessman [Donald Trump] is literally distinguished for the opposite of what the resolution claims."
ramdatt is a crybaby who can't string a sentence without insulting someone. What irony
Yes.
Is he right? yes. Is he convincing? no.
Guys let me tell you what he's actually probably doing.
Trump has bankrupted his fair share of businesses, but let us see how this happened. Let's first note the nature of these businesses. Some of his businesses/brands that went under are Trump Steak, Trump Water, Trump Signature Collection clothing and watches (which somewhat still exists today), and a big one was the Taj Mahal. Now we must ask why? Not why did they go under but why were they started? Why would a real-estate mogul want to start a clothing line, a steak brand, and a water bottling brand? He knows he can't compete with others in the sector, so why did he start them. He started them with THE PURPOSE OF BANKRUPTING THEM. Why? Well, he used all this business debt so he could write of taxes, this is the main way how he paid literally nothing in taxes, through writing off tons of business debt. He then used amortization to then not only pay off debt but actually gain money through other investments. I believe he used the amortization "loophole" (not really it's widely used by wealthy people) to greatly reduce his taxes. This is why I believe he is so weary to release his tax returns, he doesn't want people to see this. He didn't bankrupt business because he was a bad businessman, these businesses were simply pawns in his game. Now as for the Taj Mahal, well yeah he did actually fail there. He failed to realize that as more people began going to Atlantic City compared to Vegas, people were looking for a more Borgata/Golden Nugget type experience compared to the Taj Mahal which was often considered the cheapest and worst casino there. Unfortunately for him, he realized the shifting wants of the gamblers too late and decided to close it down to cut losses. So I guess this is just my two cents. :)
As I previously explained (https://www.debateart.com/debates/1895/comment_links/25680), some users are False Flag Trolls. Such as someone who claims to be trying to make Trump look bad, by putting time and effort into making Trump haters look mentally deficient (such as while starting over a dozen debates, unable to figure out how to press the submit argument button on this website).
An easy example of this kind of thing was my opponent on "Israel has no right to exist," whom I easily outed as really just an anti-Palestinian, trying to sow disdain for actual supporters of Palestinian independence (to whom he was badly impersonating). https://www.debateart.com/debates/1755/israel-has-no-right-to-exist
The main place I see this behavior is the religion forum, to which atheists pretend to be the most vile and offensive members of various religions, and vice versa, plus other variants.
In popular culture, actor Jussie Smollett could not find enough racism so hired a couple Nigerians to pretend lynch him.
no, YOU go somewhere else. I will probably stop after this. This is a debating website where I actually debate, and this is not a site where you sh**post. If you gotta make arguments, make them clear and convincing. You got the right idea, but any stalk can win a debate with you.
User_2006,
Do me a favor...Disappear.
I have zero interest I you.
Bother someone else
Stop mentioning me by name on this site!
"User_2006 is really dense. He doesn't grasp the disaster facing our country."
I know these things too, and while you are trying to make people aware, at least make them aware. You are making about 0 effort of doing anything.
Poor User_2006 is obsessed with winning debates. I don't give a rats arse.
User_2006 is really dense. He doesn't grasp the disaster facing our country.. Instead all he does is talk nonsense.
OK BOOMER
User_2006,
What part of the United States is going into a Great Depression because of the buffoon in the White House don't you understand /
User_2006,
what part of there are 27,000 dead American because of the buffoon in the White House don't you understand ?
Poor User_2006 is obsessed with winning debates. I don't give a rats arse.
User_2006 is really dense. He doesn't grasp the disaster facing our country.. Instead all he does is talk nonsense.
I am sorry for being *rude*, but ramdatt is basically a debate point farm. You can farm everything from him, votes, wins, ranking increases... consider he doesn't give any effort into anything except in the comments. This guy is getting a silver medal while presenting no considerable evidence. Whatever he posts, using any source will win, and no, posting "go away trump hater" for every argument just gives you the conduct point, spoonfed to your own face. Then he will rage and shout trump-discriminating slurs to everyone at the point of swearing. Then you will get 7 points added to your bank.
Ragnar, did you know that 42 is a special number today ?
it was the number Jackie Robinson wore when he broke the color barrier o April 15, 1947
Ragnar,
How does 42 compare with 27,000 dead Americans ?
Ragnar, why stop at only 42 ?
You are De Fuhrer of this site.
Isn't it wonderful...
User_2006 can't get me out of his mind!
At least from me, you might learn to say something intelligent instead of your nonstop blather.
There is still hope for you...You are only 14!
You worry about debate losses. I worry about the ever-increasing loss of life in the United States.
Is that too challenging for your 14-year-old brain?
I allow you to care about the US, but Hey, debate, not comment. Debate is top priority and you know damn well you can copy-paste everything onto a debate argument and maybe have ONE SINGLE point saved in your bank instead of trashtalking here.
HEIL RAGNAR...HEI RAGNAR....HEIL RAGNAR
after all Ragnar is De Fuhrer on this website.
If Ragnar is Hitler, then you are Trump.
anytime bruh
No problem. You could basically ban this guy so he will lose his unacceptably big pride, and that will teach him a lesson, or at least stop trashtalking on most of our debates.
Thank you all for voting.
Donald Trump loves supporters with no brains. That is why he loves Kellyanne Conway.
Since De Fuhrer doesn't allow me to start new debates, I will share a story about one of Trump's favorite fools, Kellyanne Conway..
This is what the idiot had to say...
Top White House aide Kellyanne Conway made a baffling ― and misleading ― statement during an appearance Wednesday on Fox News, suggesting COVID-19’s name is derived in part from the number of known coronavirus diseases.
“This is COVID-19 ― not COVID-1, folks,” Conway said during an appearance on “Fox & Friends.” “And so you would think the people charged with the World Health Organization would be on top of that.”
But COVID-19 stands for “coronavirus disease 2019” and is reflective of the year it was identified, not the number of previously documented diseases.
fauxlaw…
Another Fool On The Hill
Ragnar might ban me from his website.
Trust me...I won't lose any sleep!
<<If you actually believe I give a rats arse winning a debate against fools like you, then I have a bridge to sell you!>>
Accusation of foolishness is exploring in the mirror. Have no use of a bridge, thanks. See to someone who cares.
"Debate losses and bans will teach him a lesson."
You worry about debate losses. I worry about the ever increasing loss of life in the United States.
Is that too challenging for your 14 year old brain ?
User_2006 should say...
HEIL RAGNAR...HEI RAGNAR....HEIL RAGNAR
after all Ragnar is De Fuhrer on this website.
"He just won't stop, will he? Debate losses and bans will teach him a lesson."
OMG...User_2006 speaks. Too bad he has nothing remotely intelligent to say!
He just won't stop, will he? Debate losses and bans will teach him a lesson.
Hey this is called a comments section. This is not the debate itself. If you have so much energy to comment and trashtalk why don't you put it on the debate?
Do you think Ramdatt should be banned? He is irresponsible on so many levels!
Tough questions are a challenge for Trump. There is only so much his tiny brain can handle.
Since this is ragnars personal website, how do we know the voting is real ?
Ragnar...
In the real world, I am an ordinary person with ordinary intelligence...
ON YOUR WEBSITE, I AM A ROCKET SCIENTIST!
Ragnar, since the start of our debate, how many people have died from the Coronavirus in the United States. ?
Do You Care ?
Franklin Delano Roosevelt - THE ONLY THING TO FEAR IS FEAR ITSELF
John F Kennedy - ASK NOT WHAT YOUR COUNTRY CAN DO FOR YOU. ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR COUNTRY
Donald Trump - SHUT THE FK UP
So Ragnar, after Trump is turned into chopped liver this coming November, will you return to your former job serving burgers at McDonalds ?
A better title for this website...
RAGNAR'S HOUSE OF FOOLS
"If you spent half the energy in your overload of debates as you do in comments, you might win a couple of the"
If you actually believe I give a rats arse winning a debate against fools like you, then I have a bridge to sell you!
debateart.com is an ultra rightwing collection of people who care nothing about the disaster unfolding in the United States because of that buffoon in the White House.
You worry about winning socalled debates. I worry about the future of my country..
If you spent half the energy in your overload of debates as you do in comments, you might win a couple of them.
Thank you for the detailed vote.
"You are happy to allow nut cases to debate here as long as they..."
...participate in said debates.
No one is asking you to be good at arguments or even coherent, merely when starting a bunch of debates that you give a minimal level of participation to not reduce them to spam.
https://info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/rules#spamming
By the way, Ragnar, this is supposed to be a public forum. Who are you to dictate the terms of use of this website ?
You are happy to allow nut cases to debate here as long as they support Trump!
" factually opposed to Trump, all you've done is gotten people to research that he's not as bad as previously assumed."
HAHAHA
You are hilarious!
As I said, this is an ulra rightwing website led by coward ragner
Thanks for the entertainment.
If factually opposed to Trump, all you've done is gotten people to research that he's not as bad as previously assumed.
Your freedom of speech has not been infringed upon, unless this website is secretly run by the US federal government. Even then, your choices to both not post arguments and not reply to moderator PMs, are why you have a debate creation restriction (which we don't mind easing, once you inform us that they're actually interested in engaging in debates ... they would have already been wholly lifted, had you not chosen to forsake arguments after they were enacted).
Can someone explain to Ragnar that we live in the United States with freedom of speech. Ragnar would be much happier in Russia where freedom of speech does not exist.
Ragnar is more than my opponent in this debate. He actually runs debateart.com. So if Ragnar fears someone who has a different perspective on Trump, he bars that person from starting debates.
Ragnar has something in common with his hero. Both are cowards.
Now let's see...
Here is a partial list of trump bankruptcies...
Taj Majal Atlantic City
Trump Castle Hotel & Casino Atlantic City
Trump Plaza Hotel Atlantic City
Trump Entertainment Resorts
ATLANTIC CITY MUST REALLY LOVE DONALD TRUMP!
"Right now you're resembling a False Flag Troll."
Spoken by a dedicated Trump arse kisser
Donald Trump suffers from Paranoid Schizophrenia. If he wasn't president, he would be locked up in a mental institution