I will be honest, real life got in the way and I am also unsure where exactly the Lib Dem vs Labour clash occurs from Labour's perspective so this wil be a rant. I made this four rounds as I felt five was too long and wanted two real 'back and forth' Rounds between the into and conclusion. I will just post a rant here and see where it goes.
To begin with, Labour's ethics in the past have been wavy. While it's true that Lib Dems were originally a Labour off-shoot and that the original Labour was morally superior to the original Conservatives, being responsible for public healthcare, education and many other 'provide for the poor' initiatives in the UK, over time the Conservatives have swayed more to the centre and so did (not at present but they did up to and including Tony Blair) Labour. When the most centrist prime minister they ever had came to power, there were unforgivable crimes against humanity done in Iraq (not just killings, how soldiers were tortured etc. For sometimes a pure thrill and to scare others). This war resulted from falsified evidence that Blair provided Bush based on what I assume is MI6's non-findings:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chilcot-report-inquiry-tony-blair-iraq-war-weapons-of-mass-destruction-evidence-verdict-a7122361.html I don't 100% know who told who what and I have no doubt that Bush was actually more in on the lie than Blair but the end result is that Blair certainly had a hand in it, objectively, since it was he who initiated it. When a party has leaders who do this, we can then sit and ponder about how suddenly an 'angel' has taken over.
The problem with this 'angel' depiction of Corbyn is that he can stick to 'omg look how dirty David Cameron is!!' 'Oh gosh, Theresa May, evil! evil!' 'Boo, Boris!' and we are left to ask okay so what makes you so good? Whether or not we believe in the anti-semitic constructive dismissals going on (that means where you tactically make work so socially and physically unpleasant for the worker without technically breaking any rules as their bosses or coworkers, so that they quit rather than you fire them) we still need to look at Corbyn overall and see that his tactics revolve 90% around 'the others are worse, vote Labour'.
When Brexit was going on (pre-vote) Lib Dems were the only party other than SNP to actively take on UKIP. You can go ahead and 'prove me wrong', but not even Green Party took head-to-head debates to UKIP on the matter. Nick Clegg (leader of Lib Dems back then) went toe to toe with them and exposed all the lies, doing his level best to explain why it absolutely is incorrect to vote Leave and why Leave isn't what the Leave-voters even thought it would be. Farage 'outplayed' Clegg with his lies on both debates and it seems since the other parties danced around nervously that only in Scotland (since SNP also directly took it on) that Remain was voted while the rest of UK was generally pro-Leave (northern Ireland have since become brutally Remain despite being slightly Leave-majority in the original vote). We can simply sit and wonder why, or how, Corbyn is there sitting like Labour neither contributed to the absolute catastrophe of Leave winning nor why he himself went 'hip hip hooray let's make Leave happen absolutely, the will of the people will be carried out Leave EU now!!!' (disclaimer: paraphrasing) when the result came out.
In fact, let me expose just how fake this guy is:
The
Labour leader ruled out support for a second referendum on the terms of Britain’s withdrawal, adding: “You have to respect the decision people made.”
The position stands in contrast to that of the challenger to his leadership, Owen Smith. The former shadow welfare secretary
wants the British people to have another chance to back the case to either leave or remain in the European Union once the government’s proposals for the future terms of trade are laid out.
Now he is the only candidate other than Green Party who explicitly is pushing for a second referendum (Plaid Cymru and SNP are saying they want it but not making clear if they actually will or won't explicitly have one happen, SNP are almost identical to Lib Dems in flat out wanting to revoke Article 50 but are quieter about it, in my opinion, instead hinting at a referendum being more desirable and falling back on the 'we won't win, we only run in Scotland' excuse to not have to have that in their manifesto).
That's right, this guy who is 'oh so honest' is explicitly spearheading a second referendum when he was the first to alienate Lib Dems by saying 'how dare you want that' when the vote result originally was Leave, and also alienated members of Labour who wanted that only to later be the one saying it's best for the nation.
It's not undemocratic for Lib Dems to push for revoking Article 50. If they win the election, it's very blatantly democratic, since Lib Dems are the only party honest enough to admit they will make Remain happen when in charge. Leave is a lie. Until you understand this, you won't comprehend the beauty of Lib Dems.
Let's look away from Brexit for a second though. When Lib Dems and Labour clash it is Labour who always says they are the 'more left wing' party but it's a lie. Lib Dems are actually as centrist as Labour (not more centrist or less Left Wing) where they differ is that Labour goes for immediate solutions, while Lib Dems like long-term solutions. Recently Labour has attacked Conservatives over lack of police funding and also said we need to better treat children who were abused as children for mental health stuff provided by NHS as well as remove them from their parents so they don't end up like that lunatic who stabbed everyone very, very recently.
Lib Dems came up with that attack and stance 20 years ago. It wasn't until this election that Labour have ever had making all mental health facilities maximised in efficiency and provided 100% publicly. Lib Dems did. The 'mental healthcare' NHS currently provides (and did provide under labour) is only for severe depression or something, Lib Dems have always backed up having all kinds, even high functioning autism and ADHD, be things that qualify you for NHS therapists and psychiatrists to see. This then could mean any child acting up could confess to them about the abuse at home really being behidn their 'off' behaviour (or maybe they really have the disorder) and a lot more would be solved. Labour called that a waste of money or left it out of their manifesto for decades since the NHS's origin until this election.
This habit of Labour watching Lib Dems' policy changes and mimicking what appeals to people, leaving out what seems too risky, is seen time and time again. Do you know the Lib Dems who broke off of Labour originally were the ones who were the most caring for the poor and vulnerable, not the 'centrists'? Labour lie to you about Lib Dem ethics a lot. What is true is that at times Lib Dems are more practical than Labour, more willing to balance public services with privately-run provision, than Labour is. What you will find is that the end result of that is more gets done, Labour don't help the country more and the reason why the nation keeps swinging back to Conservatives when Labour are in charge is that they tend to leave the economy in poor shape each and every time. Labour blames this on 'crashes' and other stuff, but why is it a coincidence that Conservatives never leave it like that? It's because it's not to do with that, it's about having impractical policies that make everything either 100% Socialist in provision or 100% corporatist. Lib Dems know how to 'mix it up', that doesn't make them less moral it makes them pragmatic about how to enact ethical policy.
I do give my full apologies to RationalMadman for abandoning this debate. I am the local Youth Officer for Yvette Cooper's constituency which is now one of the most marginal seats in the country and so was very busy over the election.
I already knew they will lose. Even Lib Dems knew they would lose. When you say 'lose' you do know SNP has a very similar manifesto to Lib Dems right? so really all SNP seats would be Lib dem and Scotland used to be extremely Lib Dem and Labour-heavy until 3 elections ago.
I'm not complaining, SNP and Labour coalition was indeed viable had Labour won more seats. Lib Dems would have happily given Labour the edge this election offering a 3-way coalition but still not enough seats to beat the Conservatives.
they lost