Instigator / Pro

PaulVerliane

1337

rating

debates

9.62%

won

Topic

#1639

life during war time is the most hard core song ever written

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After 4 votes and with 16 points ahead, the winner is...

MisterChris

Tags

Society

Parameters

Publication date: 11.11.2019 09:26AM
Last updated date: 11.22.2019 03:16AM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 3
Time for argument: Two days
Max argument characters: 10,000
Voting period: One week
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

MisterChris

1762

rating

debates

88.89%

won

Description

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XskIem_iFCE this aint no party this aint no disco this ain't no foolin around
if you like a song its a good song there is no such thing as an obejctively good or bad sound

Round 1

PaulVerliane

11.12.2019 04:19AM

Pro

"The song is also performed in the 1984 film Stop Making Sense, which depicts a Talking Heads concert. The performance featured in the film prominently features aerobic exercising and jogging by David Byrne and background singers. The Stop Making Sense live version of the track is featured in the film's accompanying soundtrack album. Its official title as a single, "Life During Wartime (This Ain't No Party... This Ain't No Disco... This Ain't No Foolin' Around)", makes it one of the longest-titled singles.[2]
The song is included in The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's 500 Songs that Shaped Rock and Roll.[3]" wikipedia

Now all this meaning little to someone into country and western or some rap fan who hates pretensious bouigiesey white trash music . i love it i personally have never been ahppier than watchng stop making sense on a big screen in 2014 30 years after the film as made(it was shot over the course of four nights at Hollywood's Pantages Theater in December 1983,) to me its the closest i can come to being in heaven

but thats just me right, there are no right and wrong answers in music

MisterChris

11.12.2019 03:00PM

Con

Thanks PaulVerliane!

I will give a definition.

Hardcore: denoting an extreme or intense example of something.

The resolution is "life during war time is the most hard core song ever written"

The song presented by Pro is unusual but not particularly extreme or intense to the views of most people, much less the most extreme or intense song ever written.

For intensity and extremity, I give this counter-example that I believe most would agree to be more "hardcore": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlzQki_2mic

Key phrase is "most." As Pro says:

but thats just me right, there are no right and wrong answers in music

Pro concedes this, meaning that this is all technically subjective conjecture. While some may disagree with the sample I presented, Pro can not make a blanket statement like the resolution. Thus, vote Con.

Round 2

PaulVerliane

11.12.2019 11:06PM

Pro

I said song, what you presented as an alternative, wasn't a song that wasn't a song it was an attack on my auditory nerves it wasn't even noise it was a toilet flushing in hell, i was talking about art something that required talent and genius to create, not a demonic bowel movment

you say tomatoes i say tomatoes

i think the problem is we both agree to some degree that taste in music is subjective

your failure is to see what this debate is really about

MisterChris

11.12.2019 11:53PM

Con

I said song, what you presented as an alternative, wasn't a song that wasn't a song it was an attack on my auditory nerves it wasn't even noise it was a toilet flushing in hell, i was talking about art something that required talent and genius to create, not a demonic bowel movment

This commentary misses the point of my counter-example. My counter-example was not necessarily an example of what most people would consider to be GOOD music, it was what most people would consider HARDCORE. (Extreme or intense.) This point illustrated that Pros original song does not fit the mold of objectively being considered hardcore in comparison, effectively refuting the resolution. In other words, since I and many others do not agree that "life during wartime" is the most hardcore song, then the objective truth of the resolution has been disproven.

you say tomatoes i say tomatoes

i think the problem is we both agree to some degree that taste in music is subjective

Correct, although most would agree that your example is not hardcore, it technically is up to some degree of interpretation. Since this is the case, however, you cannot fulfill your burden of proof in order to affirm the resolution. You must prove that "life during war time is the most hard core song ever written" as an objective truth. If everything is subjective, you can not fulfill that burden.

Thus, vote Con.

Round 3

PaulVerliane

11.14.2019 11:53PM

Pro

Forfeited

MisterChris

11.15.2019 03:16AM

Con

Extend.

PaulVerliane

11.12.2019 05:50AM

#10

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@oromagi

well this must be the place ;)

PaulVerliane

11.12.2019 05:48AM

if you never saw this watch this its the best concert ever better than a stones concert even https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bjnRrvx88Y

PaulVerliane

11.12.2019 04:12AM

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@Jeff_Goldblum

my point jeffry is that my opinion that is is the greatest IS SUBjECTIVE ok?

Barney

11.11.2019 03:47PM

Zombie by The Cranberries is more hard core, as is Sunday Blood Sunday by U2.

oromagi

11.11.2019 03:24PM

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@Jeff_Goldblum

"With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. — 'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.' — Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? " -RW Emerson

oromagi

11.11.2019 03:11PM

-->

@PaulVerliane

Stop Making Sense was the single greatest concert of my life- third row at Red Rocks, late summer under the stars. General admission so we sat in line 3 days and 2 nights for those seats. When Jonathan Demme's film came out it played at the Esquire every Friday at midnight for years. My friends & I would shrug on our absurdly oversized sports coats and get all hopped up on black coffee and eggrolls dipped in almost murder spicy mustard at the Park Lane Cafe and go dance to that same handful of songs over and over and over again. God damn but I do love the Talking Heads.

Jeff_Goldblum

11.11.2019 03:10PM

It seems like this debate contradicts itself. How can something be the greatest while at the same time the author, in the description, admits no piece of music is objectively better than another?

Dr.Franklin

11.11.2019 02:03PM

-->

@TheRealNihilist

YOU

TheRealNihilist

11.11.2019 01:50PM

-->

@Dr.Franklin

Who would have thought the right deals with purity tests?

Dr.Franklin

11.11.2019 01:36PM

not everything needs to be a debate

PressF4Respect

11.18.2019 04:52AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Pro presented the claim that one song was the most "hardcore" out of all of them. He follows this up by saying that taste in music is subjective, which undermines the entire claim. Con notes this by presenting a counter-example which at least one person (Con) finds to be more hardcore than the one Pro presented. This is perfectly valid, since both sides agree that musical tastes are subjective.

Conduct is for Pro's forfeit in the final round.

oromagi

11.18.2019 03:19AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

PRO was pretty clear that his argument was entirely subjective, which makes resolution untestable, unprovable. PRO fails to define hardcore or even explain why his song met any standard by that name. CON defines and shows at least that PRO's idea of hardcore is pretty mild by many music conventions which grabs him the win. Conduct for single forfeit.

Barney

11.15.2019 04:36AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

I honestly prefer pro's offering, but under the definition we have for hardcore pro basically conceded. "An attack on my auditory nerves" that somehow "wasn't even noise" sounds way more extreme (amazingly both soundless and harming the eardrums!); plus it is reviewed as being "a toilet flushing in hell ... a demonic bowel movment."

Conduct for forfeiture.

Trent0405

11.15.2019 04:23AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Conduct to Con-Pr Forfeited R3.
-----------------------------------------------------
Pro provides practically no evidence to support the notion that life during war time is the most hard core song ever written. The only thing he offers is the length off the name, which doesn't seem to prove it's really hardcore. Pro even concedes that there are no right or wrong answers. Con then lists a song that better fits the definition of hardcore, Pro never touches this new song.

Pro never meets his BOP, he just gives some fun facts about the song in question. Con presents a song that is more hardcore if we go by the definition of hardcore that was presented by Con and never refuted by Pro.