Instigator / Pro
crossed's avatar
4
crossed
1377
rating
62
debates
25.81%
won
Topic
#1552

Illuminati exist

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
3
Better sources
2
2
Better legibility
1
1
Better conduct
1
1

After 1 vote and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...

SirAnonymous
Tags
Religion
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
5
Time for argument
One week
Max argument characters
10,000
Voting period
One month
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
SirAnonymous's avatar
7
SirAnonymous
1532
rating
3
debates
100.0%
won
Description

No information

Round 1
crossed's avatar
crossed
Pro
#1
Sorry for procrastinating
The Illuminati exist.It was founded in the 1700s. The mainstream media has made it sound like they never existed.  but this is just plain false.There symbol is on the dollar.

There is almost masonic lodge in every town in America.GO to google earth and you will probably see a masonic building in your town.



Every president except for the one has been related.Note we do not know if trump is related. This was discovered in the Obama era



Now for the meat and cheese

They put aborted babies in vaccines.Here is a fake news article by the ABC that is saying aborted babies are not a bad thing in vaccines but a good thing.I a not making this up

DO you know what a pharmaceuticals are. They are the biggest killer on the planet.100 thousand people die each years from pharmaceuticals

Did you know pharmacy was derived from the word pharmakeai and pharmaceuticals is based off the word pharmakon.
phármakon), denoting any drug, while the third sense refers to the pharmakos ritual of human sacrifice.


the word pharmakeai means

    the use or the administering of drugs
    poisoning
    sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it
    metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry


the word pharmakon means

from pharmakon (a drug)
Definition
a poisoner, sorcerer, magician
NASB Translation


pharmacy is derived off the word pharmakeai. This is because pharmacy's want to harm you.

etomology online dictionary says pharmacy came from pharmakeai.

911

This is by far the biggest evidence against George bush in my opinion.

With titles like while our nation was under attack our president was to busy reading children's books.

"The Pet Goat," known for the book the President was reading to the children upon being informed by Andy Card that a second plane had struck the World Trade Center




Our president bush was so kind he was helping the students sound out words minutes before 911. the words were. Kite hit steal plane must. he had them chant this ritual over and over before 911 happened. He used the excuse that he was helping them sound out words as an excuse. Very scary video


This is the most clear ritual i have ever seen. Our president had the kids chant kite hit steal plane must over and  over and over again in a weird satanic ritual minutes before the plane hit the world trade center


This is a must watch it is at 5:27. Very scary



Demolay

beside the fact that the demolay has demon in the name. Demolay is child youth group ages 9-21. After they graduate the youth group.they helps them get jobs like an airplane pilot a politician Hollywood actors ceos astronauts musicians etc and other jobs of high places. all the presidents have belonged to groups like this but this specific group raised bill Clinton Walt Disney and several notable celebrity

here some of there famous one

here are some of of them

This cult raises kids and when they grow up they help them find jobs.Meaning they put them in high places like being president or politician or actor.


Rothschild

The Rothschild family is estimated to have 500 trillion dollars and owns almost every bank in the world.They have funded every side of every war since the days of napolian 


The Rothschild family are known to have funded the losers and the winners of all wars since the Napoleonic Wars of 1803 to 1815. They fund both sides so that whichever side wins, they profit. In 1815, Napoleon Bonaparte was campaigning to take over Britain itself.
You should check the meme out on these guy's s



Symbolism.


Con said my Satan is Santa is rearranged was just an accident.But it is not it is something the occult does all the time. Do you know what an apple computer is. There logo is of an apple with a bite taken out of it.This is because the apple represent the forbid an fruit that Adam ate that led to the downfall of man.Computer will be the second downfall of man.The first apple computer was also sold for 666 dollars.People are so desentised from this stuff they do not even know what it means





Next round i will go into pizza gate fema camps chemtrails. haarp 5g doom and gloom.Etc over to con
SirAnonymous's avatar
SirAnonymous
Con
#2
I would like my opponent to clarify what he means by the Illuminati. In order to make my arguments make sense, I am using the definition “A secretive worldwide organization engaging in a conspiracy to either rule the world and/or direct its events.”
Is this definition acceptable, or would you like to propose a different definition?

Rebuttals

Sorry for procrastinating

Apology accepted, and I must offer my own apology for procrastinating.

The Illuminati exist.It was founded in the 1700s.

I agree that they existed in the 1700s.

The mainstream media has made it sound like they never existed.

I disagree. The Illuminati are merely an unimportant footnote in history, so there is little reason for the MSM to talk about them.

There symbol is on the dollar.

The eagle on the one-dollar bill does not represent the Illuminati.

“[Secretary of the Continental Congress] Thomson told Congress he chose a pyramid to symbolize strength and longevity, and the the eye and motto above to ‘allude to the many signal interpositions of providence in favour [sic] of the American cause.’ “
https://money.howstuffworks.com/symbols-dollar-bill.htm
Furthermore, if the Illuminati are attempting to remain secret, then they could have no possible motivation to put their symbol right where it could be seen.

There is almost masonic lodge in every town in America.

Unless you can prove a connection between the Illuminati and the Masons, this is totally irrelevant.

Every president except for the one has been related.

Once again, this is also irrelevant. What difference does it make if they’re all related through a man who died 800 years ago? This proves nothing.

They put aborted babies in vaccines.Here is a fake news article by the ABC that is saying aborted babies are not a bad thing in vaccines but a good thing.

You are grossly misrepresenting the facts. They don’t “put aborted babies in vaccines.” While the original cells were from aborted babies, the cells in the vaccines are not. “They [the cells from the aborted babies] were used to start a cell line, which is a cell multiplied over and over again to produce cells that are of a consistent genetic makeup.” “’These cell lines are now more than three generations removed from their origin, and we have not used any new tissue to produce these vaccines,’ the company added in its statement. To say that the vaccines contain a significant amount of human fetal tissue, as some objectors to the vaccines claim, is misleading, stressed Dr. Paul Offit, the director of the vaccine education center at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.
‘There are perhaps nanograms of DNA fragments still found in the vaccine, perhaps billionths of a gram,’ he said. ‘You would find as much if you analyzed the fruits and vegetables you eat.’”
What’s my source for this, you ask? The very same one you posted, and for which you have provided no evidence showing it's fake news.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/aborted-fetuses-vaccines/story?id=29005539
While I lament the fact that aborted babies were used, this has nothing to do with the Illuminati. It might prove that some vaccine developers don’t think that unborn babies are people, but it does nothing to help your case.

pharmaceuticals...are the biggest killer on the planet.100 thousand people die each years from pharmaceuticals

They are not the biggest killer on the planet even if we accept your number, which I don’t, since you provide no evidence for it. The biggest cause of death in the world is coronary heart disease at 8.7 million per year.
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/top-ten-leading-causes-of-death-in-the-world.html
Secondly, this is irrelevant to the Illuminati's existence. Also, why would they kill their own subjects?

pharmacy is derived off the word pharmakeai. This is because pharmacy's want to harm you.

This is an assertion, not proof. It is irrelevant to the existence of the Illuminati, and your own source proves it. It says that the word originated in the 14th century, hundreds of years before the short-lived Illuminati existed.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/pharmacy

Kite hit steal plane must. he had them chant this ritual over and over before 911 happened...This is the most clear ritual i have ever seen...a weird satanic ritual minutes before the plane hit the world trade center

Random coincidences prove nothing. There is no possible motivation for the Illuminati to tell Bush to do anything that might even hint at their existence. The mere fact that such a hint exists is evidence that there is no Illuminati trying to hide its existence, or else they would stop whoever it was from dropping the hint.

beside the fact that the demolay has demon in the name.

There is no ‘n’ in demolay, so it does not have demon in its name. Also, if such logic was valid, then I must be a knight because I have “Sir” in my username. The mere fact that such a hint exists is evidence that there is no Illuminati trying to hide its existence, or else they would stop whoever it was from dropping the hint.

Demolay is child youth group ages 9-21...This cult raises kids and when they grow up they help them find jobs.Meaning they put them in high places like being president or politician or actor.

This is completely irrelevant unless Pro can establish some relationship between demolay and the Illuminati. It's more reasonable to believe that the youth group is simply successful in training youth to be disciplined, hard-working members of society than it is to believe that they must be linked to the Illuminati because the youth become successful.

The Rothschild family is estimated to have 500 trillion dollars and owns almost every bank in the world.They have funded every side of every war since the days of napolian

Their net worth is $400 billion, which is not enough to own almost every bank or fund all sides of all wars.
https://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-businessmen/rothschild-family-net-worth/
Secondly, in 2015, there was only $250 trillion dollars in the entire world.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/rothschild-family-wealth/

Again, none of these allegations about the Rothschilds have anything to do with the Illuminati.

Con said my Satan is Santa is rearranged was just an accident.But it is not it is something the occult does all the time.

You have absolutely no evidence that the occult does this all the time. Also, what possible motivation would “the occult” have for giving themselves away by scattering random hints throughout the world?

the apple represent the forbid an fruit that Adam ate that led to the downfall of man.

Actually, the point of the bite was to make it obvious that it wasn’t another fruit like a cherry.
https://mentalfloss.com/article/64049/did-alan-turing-inspire-apple-logo

The first apple computer was also sold for 666 dollars.

Once again, this is refuted by the very same article that you link. The first computer wasn’t sold for any price because it was sold in 50 different pieces. Also, the total was $666.66, which has 5 sixes, not 3.
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-the-first-Apple-computer-sold-was-for-666-66
In any case, this is absurd. I can go to the store and engineer my purchases to cost $666. That would not make me satanic.

Opening Arguments

1. The Illuminati would require so many members that it would be impossible to keep it secret. It would require millions, or hundreds of millions, of members in order to function.The Illuminati would have to maintain an incredibly vast secret police force to keep everyone quiet. But even with this secret police, it would still be impossible to maintain the secret. There are many people in the world who cannot lie for moral reasons. Such people would expose the Illuminati even under the threat of death or with the offer of a bribe. Since the Illuminati would have to have millions of members, whistleblowers making claims and then getting killed should be a regular event. According to https://www.history.com/topics/1970s/watergate , seven highly motivated aides could not keep Watergate hidden. In light of this, it is utterly nonsensical to claim that millions of people could keep the Illuminati hidden.

2. It would be impossible for the Illuminati to survive financially. Accounting records of governments and large corporations are so available to the public that it would be impossible for the Illuminati to siphon money from them to pay its members and get away with it. It would have to pay millions of people inordinate amounts of bribe money to keep them quiet, and the accounting records.

3. There is no purpose for the Illuminati remaining hidden. If it is so powerful that it controls the world, then it doesn’t have any motive to stay hidden.

4. The theory of the Illuminati does not explain anything that can’t be better explained without the Illuminati. My opponent has not presented anything that can only be explained by the Illuminati. It is far more reasonable to believe that the world is as it appears than to postulate a worldwide conspiracy that doesn’t explain anything.

5. If the Illuminati existed, it would not allow the coincidences that Pro brings up to happen. It cannot simultaneously be so brilliant and well organized that it runs the world and yet also be so unbelievably incompetent as to put its symbol in plain sight.

6. If the Illuminati can keep itself secret, it must have a secret police to silence those who try to expose it. The only way to silence someone with certainty is to kill them. Therefore, I have a simple question for Pro. You are trying to expose the Illuminati. So if the Illuminati is real, then why are you still alive?

Conclusion

Pro has presented a random series of arguments ranging from made-up facts to minor coincidences to irrelevant organizations like the Masons. He has not even attempted to prove any connection between any of his arguments and the existence of the Illuminati. Consequently, everything he said in round 1 has no bearing on the argument.

In contrast, I have provided six different reasons to reject the theory of the Illuminati, and all of them ave a clear connection to the Illuminati’s existence.

I wish to thank Pro for this interesting debate. The floor is yours.








Round 2
crossed's avatar
crossed
Pro
#3
I am not going to do a block rebuttal. Because i feel it is lazy. Anyway the Illuminati exist con agree with this.But he feels that they no longer exist.I mean why would they no longer exist.Why would a group like that just disband.Secondly con gave the reason the creator gave for making the apple computer with an apple with a bite taken out of it.The reason why he did that he says is because so it does not look like a cherry.Con needs to realize that this is a lie.In quora page i originally listed about how the first computer was sold for 666.66 dollars.He says that he did this because he Quote on quote liked repeating numbers.This is complete ######firstly the apple symbol looks nothing like a cherry.Why would they mistake it for a cherry.It is called an apple computer.Why would he be afraid that it would be called a cherry.THe name of his F##### company is called Apple.The Freemasons Illuminati  Demolay Rainbowgirls Skull and bones Golden lily  etc. There all branches of the same tree.Once you have completed one secret society let say the freemasons.You are sent to another secret society.Firstly con was concerned about how they can keep millions of people quite.Con seems to know what the Freemasons are so i will start there.Freemasons have millions of member across the world.Freemasons Recruit people into there secret society and these people waste there entire lives in it.These people are told to die for there secrets.So if this society can do it why can not the Illuminati.Plus like i said before once you complete a secret society like the Freemasons you get moved up into another one like skull and bones or something.


While this question is difficult to answer on a world-wide basis, the Masonic Service Association indicates that there were 1,404,059 living Freemasons in the United States in the year 2009.

Con goes into the aborted babies in vaccines.He admits that it was derived from an aborted baby.The article is a little outdated.I just like using it because it is so absurd..Anyway the information is outdated.One of these ###### under oath admitted that they use the entire baby in vaccines.They let nothing go to waste they use tongue arms heart legs eyes everything.


Con does not believe me that pharmakeia. Is the largest killers.But he list the top killers 9 out of 10  of them are medical deaths.9 out of ten of them are diseases.Like i said once you complete a society you move up into another one.So yes pharmakeai were created by these people.Plus con says i have no proof that they put symbols in everything.Even though i listed quite a few examples like pharmakeai.Let still he denies it. He still thinks the Santa being Satan rearranged is a coincidence.The world health symbol is of a snake and a staff.Hermes the snake god.Could they be telling us that there stuff is snake oil




Rothschild.I personally believe there is more money then we believe.They print money out like it is nothing.The American dollar is useless.Secondly it is not uncommon for a family to have trillions of dollars.one family in Afghanistan has trillions of dollars.
And lastly the Illuminati does not rule the world yet.They are trying to bring in the new world order.After nine eleven.The world trade center was put in its place to replace the twin towers.


SirAnonymous's avatar
SirAnonymous
Con
#4
Thanks for the reply.

Definitions

And lastly the Illuminati does not rule the world yet.They are trying to bring in the new world order.
I must ask that you define what you mean when you refer to the Illuminati. How much influence do they have? How many countries, if any, do they control? Please be specific. It will help both our cases to understand what you mean when you say "Illuminati."

Rebuttals

Why would a group like that just disband.
They disbanded because they never had more than 2000 members and were banned by the Bavarian government.
The reason why he did that he says is because so it does not look like a cherry.Con needs to realize that this is a lie
It is pointless to say that is a lie without providing any reason to believe it is a lie. I have provided a source that gives a logical explanation for the bite out of the apple. Where is your source proving that isn't a logical explanation?
In quora page i originally listed about how the first computer was sold for 666.66 dollars.He says that he did this because he Quote on quote liked repeating numbers.This is complete ######
Firstly, please spend a little more time editing your arguments so they are easier to read. Your use of the pronoun "he" is ambiguous and could refer to either myself or the person answer the Quora question.
Secondly, it proves nothing to say that some is false without providing any reason to believe it is false.
firstly the apple symbol looks nothing like a cherry.Why would they mistake it for a cherry.It is called an apple computer.Why would he be afraid that it would be called a cherry.
It would more like a cherry without the bite, and it would lead to jokes about a company named Apple that had a cherry for a logo. It's all about marketing and public perception.
The Freemasons Illuminati  Demolay Rainbowgirls Skull and bones Golden lily  etc. There all branches of the same tree.
Once you have completed one secret society let say the freemasons.You are sent to another secret society.
You have not provided any evidence to support either of these assertions. Please do so. Bare assertions prove nothing.
These people are told to die for there secrets.So if this society can do it why can not the Illuminati.
Because the Freemasons aren't hiding any crimes. The promise to die for their secrets (presuming this exists. I would prefer it if you provided a source for this claim.) is an empty formality since they aren't hiding anything criminal. The Illuminati, on the other hand, would be hiding assassinations, bribery, provocations and support for needless war, and all manner of other crimes. My example of Watergate demonstrating why it is impossible for the Illuminati to keep their secrets still stands unaddressed.
One of these ###### under oath admitted that they use the entire baby in vaccines.They let nothing go to waste they use tongue arms heart legs eyes everything.
I am unfamiliar with what body parts they use to acquire the stem cells, but it is irrelevant. This still stands unrefuted:
“They [the cells from the aborted babies] were used to start a cell line, which is a cell multiplied over and over again to produce cells that are of a consistent genetic makeup.” “’These cell lines are now more than three generations removed from their origin, and we have not used any new tissue to produce these vaccines,’ the company added in its statement. To say that the vaccines contain a significant amount of human fetal tissue, as some objectors to the vaccines claim, is misleading, stressed Dr. Paul Offit, the director of the vaccine education center at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.
‘There are perhaps nanograms of DNA fragments still found in the vaccine, perhaps billionths of a gram,’ he said. ‘You would find as much if you analyzed the fruits and vegetables you eat.’”
While I lament the fact that aborted babies were used, this has nothing to do with the Illuminati. It might prove that some vaccine developers don’t think that unborn babies are people, but it does nothing to help your case.
The use of aborted babies in vaccines has nothing to do with the Illuminati, unless you can prove otherwise, which you have not even attempted.
But he list the top killers 9 out of 10  of them are medical deaths.9 out of ten of them are diseases.
Yes, but people who die from diseases die from diseases, not pharmaceuticals. Your argument is akin to saying that bug spray kills people because people die from diseases spread by mosquitoes. People dying from the problem =/= people dying from the cure.
Like i said once you complete a society you move up into another one.So yes pharmakeai were created by these people.
This is a non sequitur. The second sentence has absolutely nothing to do with the first. It is also begging the question. You are attempting to use the idea that the Illuminati creates pharmaceuticals to prove that pharmaceuticals are evidence of the Illuminati.
Plus con says i have no proof that they put symbols in everything.Even though i listed quite a few examples like pharmakeai.Let still he denies it.
There are all kinds of problems with this statement.
1. Existence of symbols =/= The Illuminati put the symbols there.
2. As I proved in the previous round, the word pharmacy existed before the Illuminati, so it is impossible for that to be a symbol planted by the Illuminati.
3. The Illuminati would have no motivation to put symbols in everything. In fact, they would be motivated to hide their symbols in order to better hide their existence. Consequently, the existence of such symbols is evidence (weak evidence, but evidence nonetheless) against the Illuminati's existence, because they would have attempted to remove those symbols from the public view if they really existed.
I would like my opponent to answer this question: What possible motivation could the Illuminati have for putting their symbols in public view?
He still thinks the Santa being Satan rearranged is a coincidence.
Your username rearranged is "O, Dr. Secs." Clearly, you are a sex doctor. If you disagree, then why are you insisting that it's just a coincidence? The logic that Santa is like Satan because their names are spelled with the same letters is a complete non sequitur. The letters of God rearranged are dog. Does that mean God is a dog?
The world health symbol is of a snake and a staff.Hermes the snake god.Could they be telling us that there stuff is snake oil
No, they couldn't. If the Illuminati is real and is trying to stay secret, telling us information like that would be one of the last things they would want to do.
Rothschild.I personally believe there is more money then we believe.
Unless you have proof, this is irrelevant.
They print money out like it is nothing.The American dollar is useless.
This is irrelevant for at least three reasons. Firstly, inflation does not increase the amount of wealth in the world. It is the same as trying to increase distance by making a foot only 4 inches long. It doesn't increase the total. It just makes the unit smaller. Secondly, you need to prove that the Rothschilds actually have as much money as you claim. Thirdly, you would need to demonstrate that there is a connection between the Rothschilds and the Illuminati, which you have not done.
Secondly it is not uncommon for a family to have trillions of dollars.one family in Afghanistan has trillions of dollars.
Firstly, I think you have a typo. The family isn't Afghanistani. It's the Saudi royal family (which has 15,000 members, so it doesn't really count as a family). Secondly, it is not certain that they have trillions of dollars, and if they do, they are the only family to have that much. Estimates for their net worth range from $100 billion to $1 trillion.
After nine eleven.The world trade center was put in its place to replace the twin towers.
This has nothing to do with the Illuminati.

Arguments

My opponent has not provided any evidence to cast doubt on my opening arguments, so they still stand.

My opponent has a contradiction is his perception of the Illuminati. They cannot simultaneously be trying to hide and planting symbols giving themselves away. Either they are not secretive, or they are not planting symbols. You cannot have it both ways.

My opponent has yet to produce a single piece of evidence that has any connection to the Illuminati that would support the idea of their existence. Instead, he has presented a random series of irrelevant arguments and has not even attempted to demonstrate how they support the Illuminati theory.

I wish to present a challenge to my opponent. There must be some evidence with a clear link to the Illuminati that convinced him that they exist. What evidence convinced you?

As it stands, I have presented several reasons to believe they don't exist, and my opponent has failed to provide any reason to believe that they do exist.

Once again, I thank you for your response. The floor is yours.
Round 3
crossed's avatar
crossed
Pro
#5
Sorry for procrastinating.I want to address some things.Firstly pharmacy was derived off the word pharmakeai.The word pharmakeai is ancient it is the Greek word for sorcery and is in the bible if you read it in Greek.The word pharmacy came about around the same time the Illuminati was founded.which is just one branch of a tree that has existed forever.So the illuminatti did derive the word pharmakeia to make pharmacy. pharmacy are not that old.Freemasons skull and bones Illuminati are different branches of the same tree.Once you complete one society you move into another.This is how they can keep living if they get caught.IF they get caught only one society die's.Now for the apple thing. I do not how you believe that the apple has a bite taken out because of cherry.I still can not believe that people believe the reason the first apple computer was cherry.It makes no sense that people would mistake the apple for a cherry.They were established as apple company. . the apple symbol was created one year after there company was established as apple.There first logo was Issac nutan by an apple tree.So they were establishedapple company.The apple symbol without bite does not look like a cherry.There is no reason for people to mistake it for a cherry. The apple computer was sold for 666.66 dollars because he liked repeating numbers.This is lie

The quora post. is not my source if you would look at the quora post.It post a video of the maker himself saying in a interview the reason why he sold it for 666 is because i like repeating numbers.This is ####### they do this to trick dumbdown liberals and all the brainwashed people.Because they believe everything that there master say.Because people literally believe him when he say's stuff like this.The interview in the quora post is my source.Not the quora post

DuckDuckGo
According to your profile pick you use duck duck go.I have used duck duck go for years.Because these company are collecting data so they can Install a social credit system.In china they have a social credit system.If the data that they collect on you is deemed bad. They will say you have a bad social credit and they would Deny you service's like traveling on a airplane.They do this in china.IF you say something on social media they do not like your social credit system gets lowered.


you can check your social credit score .I am not on it because i do not use Facebook or twitter.But i checked one of my teacher in high school After i graduated he had a very low score.He would be denied access to public services like airplane mail services etc.


Debate.org
on debate.org was recently down.The user RationalMadman was accusing the site of doing very bad things.RationalMadman said and i quote


"These fuckers are quoting Sun Tzu in their homepage, they are no doubt about it experienced at what they are doing."


The reason why the people  on debate.org were quoting Sun Tzu was because they are part of a secret society.They were collecting data on people and doing other stuff.What secret society they are part of.Who knows but they are all the same thing.It is a tower.If you complete the freemasonry you get moved into a different society.This is done so if one society gets caught doing something illegal.Only that  one specific society has that scandal.SO if a goverment does a raid on it or something they can disband and the other society live on and they do not loose anything.These symbols are not a coincidence it is not a coincidence that the apple symbol has a bite taken out of it.zit is not an accident that Satan is Santa rearranged


George bush ritual.Him having children perform the ritual kite hit steal plane must is not an accident it is a ritual.People still believe in magic as they have always have.Walt Disney was part of the demolay cult.His signature has 666 in it.Again he was part of the demolay society.SO was bill Clinton.George bush was part of skull and bones.According to the video in the comments about the video i posted.You said and i can not believe that you believe.They reason why they are all successful is because they select people who are on the path to success.This is not true.The reason why they are all successful is because they are put in position of power as puppets.If you have ever wondered how the political bribery in politics works this is how. I forgot about demolay in my last post.You say it does not have demon in the name.But it is still a reference.He was part of a cult and he did ritual.It seems a cut case.How can you know someone is going to be billionaire before there a billionaire.They pick dumb  people

Poisoning of the food supply.

Mental illness is on an all time high and all sorts of diseases like cancer and heart disease.The Biggest reason why this is happening is because they have poisoned are food supply.Try to go to the grocery store and buy something that does not have chemicals in it.You can not do this.The average baby is born with over 200 man made chemicals.This is because they are poisoning our food.They are putting weed killer  in are food and are killing us.Have you seen the today teenager they look like they are almost 100 years old.They have used the excuse that there are to many bugs as an excuse to poison our food with pesticides.The have used the excuse that our food does not last long enough so they poison our food with preservatives.



hermes



Hermes staff has existed for thousands of years.But the World health organization has existed for not that long.The world health organization chose to use the Hermes staff as there symbol why.Why did they choose to use the word pharmakeai as the base for the word pharmacy.


Vaccines
They put aborted babies in vaccines which con dropped.I said the information is outdated they use more aborted babies then originally thought.


Conspiracy theorist have been labeled domestic terrorist by FBI


Alex jones has been deplatformed


Alex Jones said they were going to do a fake suicide of Jeffery Epstein hours before he quote on quote killed himself.
Fema Camps. i can not find the evidence for it.It has been completely scrubbed clean.

Obamacare death by guilitine medical code.


There use to be video of people showing tunnels underneath closed down Walmart and they had billions of coffins all across America.plus other thing's.


on TruTv Jesse ventora did an episode on fema camps.But the tv show on the TV channel TrueTV was canceled because it ruffled some feathers.So the episode was not aired on tv.It has survived on YouTube.If you want to know what they are here.It talks about how people who vote Republican are labeled domestic terrorist.And the hundreds of concentration camps in America


This fema camp episode never aired on  TV. It was censored by the Channel TrueTV

Pizzagate to i can not find anything damming.Pizzagate is pedophilia by elites.
Just think of the Hollywood stuff And Jeffery Epstein.



Chemtrails have been deleted off YouTube.It does not exist anymore but

Nasa has admitted to spraying pharmaceuticals and bipolar medication in the sky.

Rothchild


You sorta got me with the amount of money.But they do own most of the banks And are banned from russia.Which is why the left is attacking putin along with trump.



Why they put symbols

in the old days people use to put stars on there houses it was an indication that they were fellow witches.There are pedophilia symbols.If someone has a pedophilia symbol on there door it is to let there fellow pedophile know that they can buy child porn from them.In my town if you are a witch you put a big star on your barn or something.This is to let other witches know that you are one of them.It is also used for sex trafficking if you have a little boy lovers symbol.It is in indicator that you sell child porn or pedophilia prostitution.




SirAnonymous's avatar
SirAnonymous
Con
#6
Thanks for the response. Don't worry about procrastinating. So long as you get it up on time, that's good.

Rebuttals

So the illuminatti did derive the word pharmakeia to make pharmacy.
I have refuted this several times. According to https://www.etymonline.com/word/pharmacy, pharmacy was used in reference to medicine as early as the 14th century, 400 years before the Illuminati existed.

In the interests of saving characters and time, I will respond to several points at once whenever possible.
.Freemasons skull and bones Illuminati are different branches of the same tree.Once you complete one society you move into another.

Fema Camps. i can not find the evidence for it.It has been completely scrubbed clean.

Pizzagate to i can not find anything damming.Pizzagate is pedophilia by elites.

Debate.org . . . The reason why the people  on debate.org were quoting Sun Tzu was because they are part of a secret society.They were collecting data on people and doing other stuff.
You have provided no evidence for these claims. By Hitchen's Razor, what you assert without evidence, I can dismiss without evidence.
I do not how you believe that the apple has a bite taken out because of cherry.

The apple computer was sold for 666.66 dollars because he liked repeating numbers.This is lie
Asserting that those are lies without evidence proves nothing.
DuckDuckGo

hermes

Alex jones has been deplatformed
You have not provided any link between these things and the Illuminati. Thus, these are irrelevant.
Vaccines They put aborted babies in vaccines which con dropped.
False. I did not drop it. I have addressed that point in each round. I never contested the point that they put aborted babies in vaccines. However, you have provided no explanation as to how that is evidence for the Illuminati.
George bush ritual.
This is a forum, so it isn't a reliable source, but it does explain what really happened and has videos to prove it.
The kids really said "Kite, Kit, Steal, Playing, Must." The reason people heard "hit" not "kit" is because the subtitles trick the brain "due to the observer expectancy effect, where subtitles force your brain to hear things a certain way." To use a silly example that proves this point, watch this video. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R18xybUr80Q (Warning: some bad language)
This video shows some weird, slightly crude nerd testing claims of backmasking. When the video shows the first example, read the subtitles as you hear the backwards lyrics and your brain will force you to hear what the subtitles say. When the second example comes, look away from the subtitles and just listen. You will hear gibberish.
I have more to say about the "Bush ritual," but it applies to other things you said as well, so I will say it later.
Walt Disney was part of the demolay cult.His signature has 666 in it.
No, the person in the link just highlighted three random parts of his signature that looked like sixes. Anyone could write a signature with sixes in it by accident. More on this later.
it is not an accident that Satan is Santa rearranged
Prove it. God is dog rearranged. Is God a dog?
The reason why they are all successful is because they are put in position of power as puppets.
How can you know someone is going to be billionaire before there a billionaire.They pick dumb  people
They don't pick dumb people. Skull and Bones picks people who are on the road to success. They are at Yale. They are picking the most successful students in a college filled with successful students. They are picking the best of the best. That is why they succeed later in life.
Poisoning of the food supply.
There is no possible motivation for the Illuminati to kill people for no reason. Having subjects is good (for them). Why would they kill them?
They are putting weed killer  in are food
You provide no evidence that they use weed killer in food.
prescription drugs are the 4th leading cause of death each year
The source you cite is extremely unreliable.
In the US, prescription drugs are not even in the top ten.
Conspiracy theorist have been labeled domestic terrorist by FBI
This is refuted by your own source. They weren't labeled "domestic terrorists" but only potential domestic terrorists. There is a big difference. Also, you have not established how this relates to the Illuminati.
This leads to a forum where the poster links to a site that can no longer be reached and the InfoWars home page. Please provide actual evidence of this. Also, please explain why this would be evidence of the Illuminati.
Alex Jones said they were going to do a fake suicide of Jeffery Epstein hours before he quote on quote killed himself.
This has nothing to do with the Illuminati, and even a stopped clock like Alex Jones is right twice a day. So?
Obamacare death by guilitine medical code.
This source is also unreliable. Please provide reliable evidence for this.
There use to be video of people showing tunnels underneath closed down Walmart and they had billions of coffins all across America.plus other thing's.
YouTube videos by random people are not reliable sources. Please provide reliable evidence for this.
Nasa has admitted to spraying pharmaceuticals and bipolar medication in the sky.
But they do own most of the banks
The only source you provided for this was extremely unreliable. Please provide reliable evidence for this.
And are banned from russia.
Putin's mean. So?
Why they put symbols
This is completely inapplicable to the Illuminati. Witches and pedophiles don't know who each other are. The Illuminati is allegedly an organization, so they can find out who each other are. This is not a valid motive for them. This still stands:
The Illuminati would have no motivation to put symbols in everything. In fact, they would be motivated to hide their symbols in order to better hide their existence. Consequently, the existence of such symbols is evidence (weak evidence, but evidence nonetheless) against the Illuminati's existence, because they would have attempted to remove those symbols from the public view if they really existed.
Arguments

My opponent has still failed to explain how most of his points are relevant to the existence of the Illuminati. Many of his sources are highly unreliable. He has completely failed to refute any of my arguments.
Consequently, my arguments against the Illuminati's existence still stand.
Round 4
crossed's avatar
crossed
Pro
#7
I am having a bad time my computer deleted my argument that i began at 4 and deleted at 7.So i will do block rebuttal 7:12 leave for my night job at 8



I must ask that you define what you mean when you refer to the Illuminati. How much influence do they have? How many countries, if any, do they control? Please be specific. It will help both our cases to understand what you mean when you say "Illuminati."

one of the many secret society trying to bring in the new world order.They have like 100 different group's so if one group gets caught they don't really get in trouble just that one group.Freemasons has over 1 million people.THe bigger people like the Illuminati are smaller they are the heads.That is why they have only 2000 members


Con dropped my debate.org argument and my social credit system because i did not source duck duck go?


According to your profile pick you use duck duck go.I have used duck duck go for years.Because these company are collecting data so they can Install a social credit system.In china they have a social credit system.If the data that they collect on you is deemed bad. They will say you have a bad social credit and they would Deny you service's like traveling on a airplane.They do this in china.IF you say something on social media they do not like your social credit system gets lowered.


you can check your social credit score .I am not on it because i do not use Facebook or twitter.But i checked one of my teacher in high school After i graduated he had a very low score.He would be denied access to public services like airplane mail services etc.



Debate.org
on debate.org was recently down.The user RationalMadman was accusing the site of doing very bad things.RationalMadman said and i quote


"These fuckers are quoting Sun Tzu in their homepage, they are no doubt about it experienced at what they are doing."


The reason why the people  on debate.org were quoting Sun Tzu was because they are part of a secret society.They were collecting data on people and doing other stuff.What secret society they are part of.Who knows but they are all the same thing.It is a tower.If you complete the freemasonry you get moved into a different society.This is done so if one society gets caught doing something illegal.Only that  one specific society has that scandal.SO if a goverment does a raid on it or something they can disband and the other society live on and they do not loose anything.These symbols are not a coincidence it is not a coincidence that the apple symbol has a bite taken out of it.zit is not an accident that Satan is Santa rearranged


RationalMadman said they quoted them on there homepage.I do not want a virus.I am not going on debate.org.So they did this on there homepage.I sourced it



unreliable sources

This source is also unreliable. Please provide reliable evidence for this.


your source is unreliable

snope is unreliable



my source says it is number 4
every list is different.All of your are medical deaths any of those could be contributed to prescription drugs.



You provide no evidence that they use weed killer in food.
yes i did i linked video talking about how they put weed killer in the food


They don't pick dumb people. Skull and Bones picks people who are on the road to success. They are at Yale. They are picking the most successful students in a college filled with successful students. They are picking the best of the best. That is why they succeed later in life.

Paying thousands of dollars to a school does not equate success.The reason why there is an elite secret society in an elite school is because these society are meant for the elites.The reason why George bush became president is because he belonged to this society.


There is no possible motivation for the Illuminati to kill people for no reason. Having subjects is good (for them). Why would they kill them?
there not trying to kill you there trying to make you mentally ill.1 in 59 births a kid has autism.


the average baby is born with over 200 chemicals listed in my last round.

do you know what this is

Butylated Hydroxytoluene

you should you eat it

do you know what this is

disodium inosinate, disodium guanylate,

Why you eatng this.Because you were reassured and you believe the reason why they feed you this stuff is because it is cheaper.Not because they re trying to modify your offspring with mental illness.


his leads to a forum where the poster links to a site that can no longer be reached and the InfoWars home page. Please provide actual evidence of this. Also, please explain why this would be evidence of the Illuminati

he said osobin ladin was going to attack new york a month before he attacked new york
Putin's mean. So?
putin banned them because they are a bank cartel and he understands there role in history.



This is completely inapplicable to the Illuminati. Witches and pedophiles don't know who each other are. The Illuminati is allegedly an organization, so they can find out who each other are. This is not a valid motive for them. This still stands:

there different branches of the same tree. Freemasons need a way to contact skull and bones without the two being considered one.If freemasons gets scandals skull and bones are completely uneffective



False. I did not drop it. I have addressed that point in each round. I never contested the point that they put aborted babies in vaccines. However, you have provided no explanation as to how that is evidence for the Illuminati.

I show an fake news article by abc of aborted babies in vaccines. you say they said it was derived off aborted babies.I say i know they say that but it is a little outdated.That is what the left was saying originally but it is no longer true.The scientist who makes them admitted under oath that they use hundreds of babies.You respond by saying i already refuted that they only derive off aborted babies, And i say you already said that and i refuted it.One of the secret society is putting aborted babies in vaccines


Asserting that those are lies without evidence proves nothing.
DuckDuckGo

hermes

Alex jones has been deplatformed

the world health organization symbol is of snake and stick it is on there site.It is there logo look at it
notice it is world health organization.just like how they replaced the twin towers with the world trade center



Hypricritical

con says that i can not refute points by calling out there obvious lies like.First apple computer was sold for 666 because they like repeating numbers.While con commits an even worst fallacy by saying all my stuff is just a coincidence.


i did source alex jones being de-platformed.I sourced a very happy cnn article talking about how they were happy to de platform alex jones.


Domestic terrorist

the fbi has labeled conspiracy theory as potential domestic terrorist.

THey list many conspiracy theorys as domestic terorist threat including pizzagate.WHich has been scrubbed clean.So the FBI has deemed it a domestic terrorist threat and scrubbed it entirely clean.


Why censor it.Is it


Dropped point

Why was jesse venture fema camp episode taken off truetv channel.Because of goverment harassment.The new world order has hundred of concentration camps.I listed the video so i can tell you what is in it. They have hundreds of coffins.THey lable people they don't like as domestic terrorist etc


pharmacy
 was created by one of the secret society.ho knows which one but they are all the same thing different branches of the same tree.These groups have existed for thousands of years.THey created groups all the time.But it is the same


nasa does spray lithium in the sky

SirAnonymous's avatar
SirAnonymous
Con
#8
Thanks for responding.

I am having a bad time my computer deleted my argument that i began at 4 and deleted at 7.
Sorry to hear that.

Definitions

one of the many secret society trying to bring in the new world order.They have like 100 different group's so if one group gets caught they don't really get in trouble just that one group.Freemasons has over 1 million people.THe bigger people like the Illuminati are smaller they are the heads.That is why they have only 2000 members
Thanks for defining it.

Point I did drop

I forgot to address the social credit system, so I will do so now. You have provided no reason to believe that a social credit system is evidence of the Illuminati. Please do so.

Points I did (not) drop

Con dropped my debate.org argument...because i did not source duck duck go?
I did not drop it. You said "The reason why the people  on debate.org were quoting Sun Tzu was because they are part of a secret society." You provided no evidence that the DDO people are part of a secret society. What you assert without evidence, I can reject without evidence. The same thing applies to these claims.
  • They have like 100 different group's so if one group gets caught they don't really get in trouble just that one group.
  • Pizzagate
  • Fema Camps
Sources

-Before It's News
Anyone can contribute news to this website. As such, it is not reliable.

-Foodbabe
Actually, Food Babe is highly unreliable.

-MediaBiasFactCheck and Snopes
I am aware that these sites have their biases. However, they are accurate regarding your sources and claims. Anyone can see just by clicking on the Before It's News, Foodbabe, or Collective Evolution websites that they do promote conspiracy theories and pseudoscience.

my source says it is number 4
every list is different.All of your are medical deaths any of those could be contributed to prescription drugs.
Your source (Collective Evolution) is known to be unreliable. Mine is a nonpartisan government agency with the express purpose of studying questions such as these and its accuracy regarding this issue can easily be confirmed by other sources. Please provide a reliable source for your claims.


yes i did i linked video talking about how they put weed killer in the food
I did miss the YouTube video. However, anyone can do a YouTube video. YouTube is not a reliable source. Please provide one that is.

Rebuttals

-DuckDuckGo
What does this have to do with the Illuminati?

-Skull and Bones

Paying thousands of dollars to a school does not equate success
True, but the admissions standards to Yale are very high. In order to be accepted in Yale, students have to be extremely academically successful.

The reason why there is an elite secret society in an elite school is because these society are meant for the elites.
Exactly. That's why they do well in life: they are elite.
The reason why George bush became president is because he belonged to this society.
Again, by Hitchen's Razor, what you assert without evidence, I can dismiss without evidence.

-Mental Illness
there not trying to kill you there trying to make you mentally ill.

1. Do you have evidence of this?
2. Why would the Illuminati want to do this? Mentally ill subjects aren't nearly as useful as mentally sound subjects.
1 in 59 births a kid has autism.
People having autism =/= Illuminati causing autism.

-Chemicals
the average baby is born with over 200 chemicals listed in my last round.
Do you have any evidence that this is a bad thing? Why is this evidence of the Illuminati?
Not because they re trying to modify your offspring with mental illness.
Your source does not support this claim.

-Alex Jones
i did source alex jones being de-platformed.
I never said you didn't.
[Alex Jones] said osobin ladin was going to attack new york a month before he attacked new york
How is this evidence of the Illuminati?

-Rothschilds
putin banned them because they are a bank cartel and he understands there role in history.
You have provided no evidence of this.

-Babies in Vaccines
I show an fake news article by abc of aborted babies in vaccines.
You have provided no evidence that it is fake news.
The scientist who makes them admitted under oath that they use hundreds of babies.You respond by saying i already refuted that they only derive off aborted babies, And i say you already said that and i refuted it.
As horrible as it was to watch that video, it did not contradict anything I said. The scientist was only talking about aborted babies and how many he used. If you go to 2:32-3 (or maybe 3:32-3) and pause it, you will see confirmation of what I have been saying. There is no actual fetal tissue in vaccines. The cells from the aborted babies are used as stem cells, and the cells in the vaccines are far removed from the babies. Yes, this is horrible. However, you have provided no reason whatsoever to show that this is evidence of the Illuminati.
One of the secret society is putting aborted babies in vaccines
Once again, you have provided no evidence.

-Conspiracy theories as terrorists
Domestic terrorist

the fbi has labeled conspiracy theory as potential domestic terrorist.
How is this evidence of the Illuminati?

-Pharmacy
pharmacy
 was created by one of the secret society.
As I have proven several times, the word pharmacy was invented hundreds of years before the Illuminati, so it is impossible for the Illuminati to have had any influence in making the word.

-NASA 
nasa does spray lithium in the sky
Your source leads to a list of the ingredients in rocket propellants. There are very few rockets launched, and they are in a concentrated area, so this would have no effect. Also, how is this evidence of the Illuminati?

-Concentration camps

The new world order has hundred of concentration camps.I listed the video so i can tell you what is in it.
The vast majority of YouTube videos are not reliable sources. Please provide a reliable source for this claim. Also, I did not drop this point.
They have hundreds of coffins.
So?

-Symbols
notice it is world health organization.just like how they replaced the twin towers with the world trade center
Having the same word in both names is meaningless, especially when it's a common word like world. By that logic, you are a cross-fitter who draws cross-sections of cross-stitches.
there different branches of the same tree. Freemasons need a way to contact skull and bones without the two being considered one.If freemasons gets scandals skull and bones are completely uneffective
This is not a valid motive for them to put their symbols where the public can see them. Symbols are a highly inefficient method of communication. Also, if they are part of the "same tree," then they don't need to use symbols to communicate.

-Hypocrisy
con says that i can not refute points by calling out there obvious lies like.First apple computer was sold for 666 because they like repeating numbers.
That's because you can't refute a point by saying, "That's an obvious lie." You need to provide evidence that it's a lie.
While con commits an even worst fallacy by saying all my stuff is just a coincidence.
That's not a fallacy, and you have provided no evidence to show that they are anything but coincidences. There is no hypocrisy here.

Arguments

Pro has still failed to provide evidence for many of his claims. He has also failed to establish any connection between any of his claims and the Illuminati. Thus, he has provided no evidence whatsoever for the existence of the Illuminati.

Once again, he has failed to refute any of my 6 arguments against the existence of the Illuminati.

In summary, my opponent has no positive argument, but I do have a negative argument.

I have two challenges for Pro:
1. Either provide evidence from reliable sources for your claims or retract them.
2. Establish connections between your claims and the Illuminati's existence.


Round 5
crossed's avatar
crossed
Pro
#9
All these Conspiracy are done by secret society. Which is like 100 branches of the same tree. demolay skull and bones Illuminati. Remember we started this video because i said i believe in conspiracy theory's.You said make an Illuminati debate. SO i have spent my time listing thing they have done.I could win on technicality. They are a group that has existed. I am going to do a little bit of block rebuttal because some of this is stupid.I don't mean to be mean by that.I just don't know how to wright it in a way without block rebuttal.I wanted to not do block rebuttal to force people to read it.

the average baby is born with over 200 chemicals listed in my last round.
Do you have any evidence that this is a bad thing? Why is this evidence of the Illuminati?

yes babies being born with over 200 man made chemicals is a bad thing.Chemicals have quite the effect on humans.i posted a link to the most dangerous chemicals in the food today. This is evidence for Illuminati because they poison our food.


This has had a huge effect on our population.1 out of 59 children our born with autism.This is done because they poison our food.


Then we make them stupid with pharmaceuticals.

Literally the world health organizations logo is of a stupid snake on a stick


that fits in the 1700 timeline world health organization has not existed for that long.

The little box of information that YouTube puts on Illuminati video.To censor them says it existed in 1500.Which fits in with pharmakeai.I just noticed it while i was searching Illuminati.



pharmacuticals have insane side effects.

prosac for example causes yellow skin and eyes changes and behavior and thinking.Thoughts of suicide, and 120 plus different side effects.


  • thoughts of killing oneself
  • tightness in the chest
  • tiredness
  • twitching, twisting, or uncontrolled repetitive movements of the tongue, lips, face, arms, or legs
  • unconsciousness
  • unpleasant breath odor
  • unusual bleeding or bruising
  • unusual drowsiness, dullness, tiredness, weakness, or feeling of sluggishness
  • unusually pale skin
  • use of extreme physical or emotional force
  • vomiting of blood
  • yellow eyes or skin
    • pain killers kill more then cocian and heroin combined



    Have you ever searched up a conspiracy theory on you-tube. IF you type Illuminati on youtube.YouTube will have a little box on the top giving you information on it. This little box only exist on conspiracy video as a way to censor them.My argument is one of the secret society did it.Don't know which one but they are the same thing.



    The box that YouTube puts on conspiracy video say it was formed in 1500's which its in my pharmakeia time line.How long they have existed has always been sketchy

    It also does this with other conspiracy like pizza gate and fema camps which  is shady.Con said i provided no proof of it.Which is wrong i provided a video that was taken off the tv channel truetv for goverment harassment.In the video they talked about the millions of coffins all around the united states and i aid what was in the video as evidence.

    For most of the debate i have just been listing stuff evil stuff that has been done.Because it is these groups that pretend to be 100 different organizations but really only one.



    I am aware that these sites have their biases. However, they are accurate regarding your sources and claims. Anyone can see just by clicking on the Before It's News, Foodbabe, or Collective Evolution websites that they do promote conspiracy theories and pseudoscience.

    This bothers me. Your entire argument has been everything is a coincidence and just because it is a conspiracy theory it can not be true.It has not done no pseudosience. you said saying there lying is not an argument.If that is the case you can not say it's a coincidence. I have piled my comprehensive list of side effects into one basket.There are to many to be an accident.they are not coincidence there are to many.

    The tv sign off. IN the 1960 played backwards is trust  goverment obey goverment and other weird. This is because you may not hear it conscious but on  subconscious level you do hear it.

    This was done during the same time as mk ultra.MK ultra is a fact.The goverment did have brainwashing programs.That is a fact.Bill Clinton apologized for it. Anyway Mk ultra is the code for the Cia mind control project. Anyway. THe obey goverment thing is not an accident.The Illuminati uses MK ultra to brainwash people.


    This is a fact.Mk ultra is a fact.They did brainwashing programs.

    K-Ultra was a top-secret CIA project in which the agency conducted hundreds of clandestine experiments—sometimes on unwitting U.S. citizens—to assess the potential use of LSD and other drugs for mind control, information gathering and psychological torture. Though Project MK-Ultra lasted from 1953 until about 1973, details


    you can find Illuminati  MK ultra slave's glitching on you-tube
    There programming is broken

    speech of bill Clinton  apologizing for mk ultra

    [Alex Jones] said osobin ladin was going to attack new york a month before he attacked new york
    How is this evidence of the Illuminati?
    they stage 911. Illuminatti demolay freemasons are all the same thing.Think of it like school


    There is school and there are tiny branches of it.
    • math class
    • English class
    • science class
    all of these classes are the same tree which is school but are different branches.

    New world order
    • illuminati
    • Skull and bone
    • demolay
    • Golden Lilly
    There all the same tree which is new world order. But different branches.I have spent the debate listing there evils




    The vast majority of YouTube videos are not reliable sources. Please provide a reliable source for this claim.
    It was Suppose to be on tv before it was taken off the air for goverment harassment.So it is reliable.



    it did not contradict anything I said. The scientist was only talking about aborted babies and how many he used. If you go to 2:32-3 (or maybe 3:32-3) and pause it, you will see confirmation of what I have been saying. There is no actual fetal tissue in vaccines.


    Illuminati is putting aborted babies in vaccines. one study had 76 dead babies which were 3 months old when aborted.they were cut into pieces and cultured.It repeats what i said it is more then just derived from aborted babies there are aborted babies in vaccine 2:32 it says he is using almost  the entire baby.

    3:10 he says he uses them to make vaccines

    3:32
    He says it is used in the development of vaccines and is an ingredient




    the fbi has labeled conspiracy theory as potential domestic terrorist.
    How is this evidence of the Illuminati?
    They are censoring people who talk about the Illuminati




    nasa does spray lithium in the sky
    Your source leads to a list of the ingredients in rocket propellants. There are very few rockets launched, and they are in a concentrated area, so this would have no effect. Also, how is this evidence of the Illuminati?


    lithium is a bad pharmaceutical

  • difficulty in speaking
  • drooling
  • dry mouth
  • eyeballs bulge out of the eye sockets 



    • your snope article is deceptive it does not say. Nasa admitted to spraying lithium on Americans as false.But admits that nasa sprays lithium in the air.

    conspiracy theorists latched on to the use of the word “lithium” and extrapolated that it was used by NASA to surreptitiously drug the populace. NASA openly “admitted” to using lithium in a manner widely expected of that element, but use of the word “admitted” also implied disclosure by accident or under duress.
    it says everything i said is true. Except what i said was a lie is also true which it is not

    Buried among the tinfoil were a few actual facts: that 2003 study does exist, but it studied aerosolized vaccines
    yes we are saying they are spraying chemicals on us.But are saying it is a good thing.Like vaccinating everyone.It confirms everything i said.But says it is a good thing.

    My argument is the Illuminati or one of the cults which is the same thing are real and doing all these evil things.




    Anyone can contribute news to this website. As such, it is not reliable.

    then use's wikipedia clone.Anyone can edit it.It was done that way for free speech purposes.To make it more reliable in a way then let say cnn.

    Snope lies and is a left wing fake news site



    rational-wiki is unreliable.It is a site made to discredit conspiracy theory's and attack them



    RationalWiki is a wiki whose stated aims are to critique and challenge pseudoscience, conspiracy theories
    just like snope.
    NPR is very unreliable
    only 22 percent of people believe this propaganda site is unreliable
    and finally.My source said the reason why he banned the Rothschild is because of there role in history. i put all the symbol stuff in one basket.To make it easier.Symbols are more noticeable because of the internet.But back in the early 1900's putting symbols in everything was not a problem because of lack of internet.You need to prove there coincidences.I did cover the 6 points against me just not in block rebuttal. i was trying to get him to read it.All the evils i listed are done by illuminati

    SirAnonymous's avatar
    SirAnonymous
    Con
    #10
    Thank you for the civil debate.

    Rebuttals

    All these Conspiracy are done by secret society. Which is like 100 branches of the same tree.
    I have asked you several times to provide evidence for this. You have failed to do so.
    I could win on technicality. They are a group that has existed.
    No, you couldn't. The premise is "Illuminati exist" in the present tense, so you would have had to have proved that they exist currently. In order to win with that technicality, the premise would have to be "Illuminati existed" in the past tense.

    --Chemicals and pharmaceuticals
    yes babies being born with over 200 man made chemicals is a bad thing.
    You have provided no evidence that the chemicals babies are born with are harmful
    i posted a link to the most dangerous chemicals in the food today. This is evidence for Illuminati because they poison our food.
    • The Illuminati would have no motivation to poison our food. I have pointed this out before.
    • Chemicals do not qualify as poisons unless proven to be poisons. Yes, they can have some negative effects, but that does not make them poison. Chemo has negative effects. However, it is not considered poisonous because it ultimately saves lives.
    • You are saying that the Illuminati exists because they poison our food. However, even if I grant that our food is poisoned, you would have to prove that the Illuminati is the one doing it, which you have not attempted to do.

    This has had a huge effect on our population.1 out of 59 children our born with autism.This is done because they poison our food.


    Then we make them stupid with pharmaceuticals.
    You have provided no evidence that chemicals cause autism or that pharmaceuticals make people stupid.

    pharmacuticals have insane side effects.

    prosac for example causes yellow skin and eyes changes and behavior and thinking.Thoughts of suicide, and 120 plus different side effects.
    Side effects are things that can happen, not things that will happen. This is also not evidence of the Illuminati. There would be no motive for them to poison their own subjects.

    pain killers kill more then cocian and heroin combined
    • The article you posted refutes this. Painkillers kill more that cocaine and heroin because they are more commonly abused. They kill because they are abused, just like cocaine and heroine.
    • The Illuminati would not have any motivation to kill its own subjects.

    --WHO

    Literally the world health organizations logo is of a stupid snake on a stick
    So? That symbol refers to healing and medicine. It's an appropriate logo.

    --YT Info Box and FEMA camps
    The little box of information that YouTube puts on Illuminati video.To censor them says it existed in 1500.Which fits in with pharmakeai.
    • It doesn't censor anything.
    • It says that the word illuminati, meaning "enlightened ones," existed in 1500, not the organization.
    • Even if that was the organization and not just the word, the word pharmacy still came into use over 100 years earlier.
     IF you type Illuminati on youtube.YouTube will have a little box on the top giving you information on it. This little box only exist on conspiracy video as a way to censor them.My argument is one of the secret society did it.
    <snip>
    It also does this with other conspiracy like pizza gate and fema camps
    Con said i provided no proof of it.Which is wrong i provided a video that was taken off the tv channel truetv for goverment harassment.In the video they talked about the millions of coffins all around the united states and i aid what was in the video as evidence.
    • The vast majority of YouTube videos are not reliable sources. The fact that it was originally meant for TV doesn't make it any more reliable.
    • The existence of coffins is meaningless. Coffins are needed, and you have still not provided any motivation for the Illuminati to kill their subjects.
    --Misc
    For most of the debate i have just been listing stuff evil stuff that has been done.
    That's your biggest problem in this debate. You can't list a bunch of random things and say, "The Illuminati did it." You have to provide evidence that the Illuminati actually did them and not someone or something else, which you have completely failed to do.
    Your entire argument has been everything is a coincidence and just because it is a conspiracy theory it can not be true.
    • Not at all. I have provided many alternate explanations for the points you have raised. For the points where I have no alternate explanation, I have shown why the Illuminati is an extremely unlikely explanation. Furthermore, coincidences prove nothing. There are 7 billion people in the world and thousands of years of known history. It is inevitable that some things line up weirdly. That is not evidence of a conspiracy.
    • I never argued that it isn't true because it's a conspiracy theory. That is a gross misrepresentation of my argument. I have shown how your evidence is no evidence at all and provided solid reasons showing that the Illuminati does not exist.
    you said saying there lying is not an argument.If that is the case you can not say it's a coincidence.
    There is no logical connection between these two statements. There is no similarity between failing to provide evidence to back assertions and rejecting the argument that the Apple logo is somehow connected to the apple in the Garden of Eden and supporting that rejection with the point that the Illuminati would have absolutely no motivation to do such a thing.
    I have piled my comprehensive list of side effects into one basket.There are to many to be an accident.they are not coincidence there are to many.
    There are 7 billion people in the world and thousands of years of known history. It is inevitable that some things line up weirdly. That is not evidence of a conspiracy. Multiplying the numbers of non sequitirs does not magically make them logical.

    --MK Ultra
    Yes, MK Ultra existed. However, you have not provided any reason to believe that it came from the Illuminati rather than the US government. Without a connection to the Illuminati, this is irrelevant.

    --Staging 9/11
    Alex Jones making a prediction before 9/11 that New York would be attacked is not evidence that it was staged. What possible reason could the Illuminati have to tell Alex Jones that they were going to stage an attack? It would be like Trump confessing crimes to Adam Schiff and hoping he'd stay quiet.

    --Aborted babies in vaccines
    Once again, it is terrible that aborted babies are in vaccines. However, you still have not explained how this is evidence of the Illuminati. Asserting that they did it is not evidence.

    --FBI Potential Domestic Terrorists
    They are censoring people who talk about the Illuminati
    Labeling them as potential domestic terrorists is not censorship, and the groups given that label were QAnon and Pizzagate, which don't talk about the Illuminati anyway.

    --NASA and lithium
    your snope article is deceptive it does not say. Nasa admitted to spraying lithium on Americans as false.But admits that nasa sprays lithium in the air.
    No, it isn't. You misread both my argument and the Snopes article. NASA doesn't "spray" lithium into the atmosphere. The lithium comes from rocket exhaust, which, as I pointed out, is so minor that it would make no difference.
    Buried among the tinfoil were a few actual facts: that 2003 study does exist, but it studied aerosolized vaccines
    yes we are saying they are spraying chemicals on us.But are saying it is a good thing.Like vaccinating everyone.It confirms everything i said.
    Great job at taking the quote out of context. Why don't you show us the whole thing?
    Buried among the tinfoil were a few actual facts: that 2003 study does exist, but it studied aerosolized vaccines — i.e. ones that are inhaled as opposed to injected — and had nothing to do with dropping chemicals from planes. (italics mine)
    This is quite the opposite of confirming what you said.

    Sources
    then use's wikipedia clone.Anyone can edit it.It was done that way for free speech purposes.To make it more reliable in a way then let say cnn.
    Allowing anyone to add articles makes it less reliable because random internet users are not reliable sources.
    Snope lies and is a left wing fake news site
    Having a left wing bias does not make it fake news, and it linked plenty of sources to prove its point.
    rational-wiki is unreliable.It is a site made to discredit conspiracy theory's and attack them
    That doesn't make it unreliable. By that logic, any organization meant to debunk ideas would be unreliable for the same reason.
    only 22 percent of people believe [NPR] is unreliable
    I was using NPR to show why one of your sources was unreliable. I didn't attack NPR.
    My source said the reason why he banned the Rothschild is because of there role in history.
    Your source is totally unreliable.
    You need to prove there coincidences
    No, you are making the positive claim that the Illuminati exists. The burden of proof is entirely on you.
    I did cover the 6 points against me just not in block rebuttal.
    You only covered #1, and I refuted your rebuttal.

    Conclusion
    Pro has completely failed to provide any connection between his arguments and the existence of the Illuminati, rendering his entire argument totally irrelevant. He has continually used unreliable sources. In contrast, I have provided several reasons to believe that the Illuminati does not exist. Vote Con.