First, I think TRN should take digital evidence off the table or else he could not believe in anything from the 1830s to the beginning of the universe.
Second, why do you not address how two people, one who was skeptical and did not believe and the other who hated Christianity, came to be the greatest believers. That is some change! Yet you fail to give a good explanation.
Next, I knew you were going to go with the suicide bombers. You see, Muslims who do this sort of thing are sincere in what they believe,but they don't know if it is true. The disciples were in a position to know whether or not Jesus was raised from the dead. It simply is not plausible to suggest that each of these men would face continual persecution and horrifying deaths for something they knew to be a lie. After all, liars don’t make good martyrs. And in contrast to suicide bombers, the disciples didn’t kill others in their respective martyrdoms. And they didn’t use violence to force people to convert to Christianity. In fact, they did no harm to anyone, but loved their enemies and willingly accepted persecution from them for the sake of the gospel.
More Proof
A change happened in the disciples
When Jesus was arrested all the disciples fled in fear. Only John was brave enough to follow Jesus to His last moments. Even Peter after he denied Jesus left Him.
Less than two months later, Peter stand in Jerusalem before a large crowed and with courage says, that they had “taken by lawless hands, [had] crucified, and put to death” their Messiah, but “God raised [Him] up”. After that Peter, in the Temple says, “But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, and killed the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses”. The disciples are then arrested and taken before the scribes, rulers Caiaphas and Annas, the same ones who had crucified Jesus, and declare to them, “Let it be known to you all, and to the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole… Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved”. The disciples are then told not to preach in the name of Jesus, but the respond by saying, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you more than to God, you judge. For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard”. When they leave they resume preaching the gospel.
Right after that they are arrested again and placed in prison. That night an angel opens the door and lets them out. They go to the Temple and preach again. The authorities rearrest them and place them in prison again where they tell the council, "“We ought to obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree”.
The men who had fled in fear at Jesus' arrest no were preaching, being arrested and on being threatened and released preaching again. No amount of threats, beatings or persecution was going to silence them because they knew that even though Jesus had died, He was alive and well. They had seen Him with their own eyes and touched Him with their own hands, and only death could silence them.
The Tomb is Empty
If Jesus' body, which was guarded by Roman soldiers, could not be found in the tomb, the Jesus had to have risen.
If Jesus' body was still in the tomb, then on the day that Peter preached to thousands on the day of Pentecost the Jewish leaders could have taken Peter to the tomb and shown him that he was lying. But, there isn't a single record of this. Instead these leaders had to invent an impossible story that the disciples stole the body from Roman soldiers to explain an empty tomb.
The fact that the opponents of Christianity, in these early times, knowledge the empty tomb gives authenticity to the accounts, since enemies will not want to help make the case for resurrection.This is known as the principle of enemy attestation or the testimony of a hostile witness. “If opponents of the eyewitnesses admit certain facts the eyewitnesses say are true, then those facts probably are true (for example, if your mother says you are brave, that might be true; but it’s probably more credible if your archenemy says the same thing).” (Norman L. Geisler and Frank Turek, I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Books, 2004),231.
I also see that you are trying to make this about the Bible being true. I must say that we are not debating the truthfulness of the Bible, but the truthfulness of the resurrection.
I have other evidence, but not enough space to write it.
I would also like Con to explain why two men, one who was an unbeliever and brother to Jesus could change his mind, and the other how a fierce oponent of Christianity and great persecutor of The Way, could change.
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General Grant,
YOUR QUOTE: "If he hadn't raised from the dead, then death could not be conquered."
The problem is NOT Jesus raising from the dead, it is the biblical axiom that He really didn't DIE because He arose from the tomb to life in 3 days! Therefore how can the TRUE Christian like myself say that He died for our sins when He remains alive?!!! Dying for only 3 days and coming back to life is an embarrassment if one wants to use the notion of "Jesus died for our sins." Get it? 2+2=4.
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>>If he hadn't raised from the dead, then death could not be conquered.
Death can't be conquered because there is no evidence of it. Some people are hopeless. I only wish you are given the tools to realize that and change your view on things. Oh well.
If he hadn't raised from the dead, then death could not be conquered.
I hate it when Jesus' Resurrection is brought forth, this is because it shows that Jesus really didn't die as a true sacrifice! Whereas, a true sacrifice, as in World War II, is that you remained dead! The soldiers in all wars did NOT have the option of returning to life after 3 days as Jesus did, so where is the TRUE sacrifice for the sins of the world? My faith is tested at all times, where this proposition is one of the worst in this vein.
That is all right.
I am such a procrastinator.
Sorry about that.
Well, not this opponent. Hahahahaha
I thought my opponent wouldn't need more than 5k characters.
Thanks. I got it. I wish you would have allowed more words.
>>You can never be absolutely certain that Jesus did not rise from the dead.
That is not good enough stance to win in my opinion.
Look above.
Green square is Pro.
Red square is Con.
Are you pro or con?
I think it would be better to say "we don't have enough evidence to conclude that he did" instead of "no he didn't". You can never be absolutely certain that Jesus did not rise from the dead.