Instigator / Con
14
1641
rating
63
debates
65.08%
won
Topic
#1016
Does The Bible Tell Christians To Be Homophobic?
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After 2 votes and with 6 points ahead, the winner is...
Speedrace
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 5
- Time for argument
- Two days
- Max argument characters
- 30,000
- Voting period
- Two weeks
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Pro
8
1489
rating
1
debates
0.0%
won
Description
INTRO
We will be debating over whether the Bible commands its followers to be homophobic.
-- TOPIC --
Does The Bible Tell Christians To Be Homophobic?
-- STRUCTURE --
1. Con waives; Pro Opening argument
2. Rebuttals
3. Rebuttals
4. Rebuttals/Close
Definitions
Homophobic: having or showing a dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people.
Rules
1. No forfeits
2. Citations must be provided in the text of the debate
3. No new arguments in the final speeches
4. Observe good sportsmanship and maintain a civil and decorous atmosphere
5. No trolling
6. No "kritiks" of the topic (challenging assumptions in the resolution)
7. For all resolutional terms, individuals should use commonplace understandings that fit within the logical context of the resolution and this debate
8. The BOP is on Pro; Con's BOP lies in proving Pro wrong. Con may make original arguments if he wants to.
9. Rebuttals of new points raised in an adversary's immediately preceding speech may be permissible at the judges' discretion even in the final round (debaters may debate their appropriateness)
11. Violation of any of these rules merits a loss.
Round 1
Waiving
This is my first debate.
Let's make this one count
Yes, The bible states that Christians should be homophobic
The Catholic Church states that one should not have sexual relations to the same sex.
In Leviticus 18 & 20 it states that "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death".
This statement on itself dictates that Christians should avoid being homosexual.
According to history, the Catholic Church has resisted the acceptance of homosexuality within Christian society and has on occasions punished those who have transgressed.
This on itself too dictates that Christians should be homophobic and punish those who otherwise do so
ps. English isn't actually my first language so please consider the grammatical errors that I've made
This statement : "the Catholic Church has resisted the acceptance of homosexuality within Christian society and has on occasions punished those who have transgressed.
"
was taken from :
Round 2
In Leviticus 18 & 20 it states that "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death".This statement on itself dictates that Christians should avoid being homosexual.
This statement doesn't dictate homophobia. In other words, we should avoid it, yes, but it doesn't tell us to treat those who do differently.
Romans 6:23: "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Ecclesiastes 7:20: "Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins."
These two scriptures tell us that everyone sins and that sinning means you will die. The Catholic Church's justification for homophobia is simply saying that homosexuality is a sin and therefore justifies homophobia. However, everyone has sinned, meaning that we must treat everyone in this manner, including ourselves because we have sinned as well. However, that's ludicrous!
Matthew 7:1: “Do not judge, or you too will be judged."
As we can see here, it is not our place to judge others, because we are guilty of the same things.
James 2:10: "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."
So according to this, anyone who sins once is guilty of all sins, which would include homosexuality. As I showed above, everyone has sinned, which means that everyone is guilty of homosexuality, which just shows the hypocrisy of the church.
Also, the Catholic Church is not equivalent to the Bible, so citing its practices does not prove anything. You must prove that the Bible encourages homophobia.
Over to you! :)
These two scriptures tell us that everyone sins and that sinning means you will die. The Catholic Church's justification for homophobia is simply saying that homosexuality is a sin and therefore justifies homophobia. However, everyone has sinned, meaning that we must treat everyone in this manner, including ourselves because we have sinned as well. However, that's ludicrous!
- Yes everyone has sinned, but there are degrees of sins. It simply means that committing murder isn't the same as being a homophile.
- Yes we should avoid it, but it doesn't mean that we should be a homophile.
- Yes God loves everything that he has created but he would still punish on those who defy his given laws.
- God loves everything and everyone that he created. Yes he accepts us for who we are but the thing is homosexuality is still a sin, meaning that we should at all costs avoid performing it.
- God has sacrificed his only son to repent all of our sins, but that doesn't mean we should commit those crimes again.
- God didn't only sacrifice his only son to repent us of the sins that we have committed but it was also for us to learn from our mistakes.
- So doing said sins not only add insult to injury but makes us look like that we have forgotten what God has done for us.
As to what Jesus has done. Yes he did sacrifice himself for our salvation but this doesn't mean that we should keep on doing sins.
Matthew 7:1: “Do not judge, or you too will be judged."As we can see here, it is not our place to judge others, because we are guilty of the same things.
This is true. We should not judge others or rather let God do the bidding for those who chose to repel God's will and follow their own
So according to this, anyone who sins once is guilty of all sins, which would include homosexuality. As I showed above, everyone has sinned, which means that everyone is guilty of homosexuality, which just shows the hypocrisy of the church.
As what I have said. There are degrees of sins, saying that committing one crime makes us commit all?
No. This means that if you have committed a sin there is also a possibility that you will also commit other sins.
Thank you for giving me a good first debate :D
You gave me a nice response.
Back to you sir!
Round 3
Yes everyone has sinned, but there are degrees of sins. It simply means that committing murder isn't the same as being a homophile.
All sin sends one to hell, as I showed in Romans 6:23, not just homosexuality.
Yes we should avoid it, but it doesn't mean that we should be a homophile.
I think you meant to say homophobic, not homophile. And, yes, I agree with that point!
Yes God loves everything that he has created but he would still punish on those who defy his given laws.
This is true.
God loves everything and everyone that he created. Yes he accepts us for who we are but the thing is homosexuality is still a sin, meaning that we should at all costs avoid performing it.
That is essentially left up between the believer and God. As I showed with Matthew 7:1, it is not our place to judge what another person does. However, God isn't going to cut off a Christian because they are homosexual; if he did, he would then have to cut off everyone else because everyone has sinned. This in no way promotes being homophobic.
God has sacrificed his only son to repent all of our sins, but that doesn't mean we should commit those crimes again.God didn't only sacrifice his only son to repent us of the sins that we have committed but it was also for us to learn from our mistakes.So doing said sins not only add insult to injury but makes us look like that we have forgotten what God has done for us.
None of these show being homophobic being promoted by the Bible.
As to what Jesus has done. Yes he did sacrifice himself for our salvation but this doesn't mean that we should keep on doing sins.
Again, whether we should or should not continue doing a certain action has nothing to do with whether the Bible promotes being homophobic or not.
As what I have said. There are degrees of sins, saying that committing one crime makes us commit all?No. This means that if you have committed a sin there is also a possibility that you will also commit other sins.
That completely twists the scripture. The scripture says nothing of the sort.
James 2:10: "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."
It doesn't say "he might become guilty of some in the future possibly." It says he "IS guilty of ALL."
Thank you for giving me a good first debate :DYou gave me a nice response.
Of course! Over to you! :)
I think you meant to say homophobic, not homophile. And, yes, I agree with that point!
I have badly worded the statement here. Apologies to you my sir.
That completely twists the scripture. The scripture says nothing of the sort.James 2:10: "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."It doesn't say "he might become guilty of some in the future possibly." It says he "IS guilty of ALL."
Like what I said there are possibilities of you committing more sins. He knows everything that will happen that's why it is stated as "IS GUILTY OF ALL"
I have asked my parish priest about this, and he says that what i said was the latter of the meaning.
All sin sends one to hell, as I showed in Romans 6:23, not just homosexuality.
Homosexuality is a part of Lust which make us commit fornication.
Lust is a part of the Seven Deadly Sins. Which is more than enough to make us become homophobic
Once again, Thank you for giving me a good response.
Back to you sir :D
Round 4
Like what I said there are possibilities of you committing more sins. He knows everything that will happen that's why it is stated as "IS GUILTY OF ALL"I have asked my parish priest about this, and he says that what i said was the latter of the meaning.
Occam's Razor applies here. The simplest solution is to simply read the scripture, which says "guilty of all," rather than interpolating an interpretation that fits a certain view.
Homosexuality is a part of Lust which make us commit fornication.Lust is a part of the Seven Deadly Sins. Which is more than enough to make us become homophobic
Homosexuality is not "part of lust." They are completely different acts. Also, saying that something is one of the seven deadly sins is not an argument to say that the Bible is saying we should discriminate against that person. If that was the case, the Bible is telling us to discriminate against those who get angry, those who are prideful, and many other sins.
However, we know this isn't true because the Bible literally says not to judge in Matthew 7:1, as well as in other scriptures.
Over to you! :)
Occam's Razor applies here. The simplest solution is to simply read the scripture, which says "guilty of all," rather than interpolating an interpretation that fits a certain view.
Occam's Razor shouldn't be applied here.
The simplest solution isn't the answer here.
Also using Occam's Razor seems a bit hypocritical in this situation.
BrotherDThomas :
THIS ISSUE: In Leviticus 18 & 20 it states that "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death".YOUR RESPONSE: This statement on itself dictates that Christians should avoid being homosexual. This statement doesn't dictate homophobia. In other words, we should avoid it, yes, but it doesn't tell us to treat those who do differently.WHAT YOU ARE MISSING: HELLO? We have to admit that our God Jesus stated with specificity that Homosexuals should be MURDERED! Therefore, who are we to say that Jesus is wrong in this respect? Do you want to tell Jesus in prayer tonight that we shouldn't MURDER Gays as he commands? Huh?
I have to add this one.
However, we know this isn't true because the Bible literally says not to judge in Matthew 7:1, as well as in other scriptures.
Meaning of judge : form an opinion or conclusion about.
You most definitely cannot judge the fact that God himself ordered homosexuals to be put to death.
Back to you Sir! :D
Round 5
Occam's Razor shouldn't be applied here.The simplest solution isn't the answer here.Also using Occam's Razor seems a bit hypocritical in this situation.
My opponent fails to give any reason whatsoever why Occam's Razor doesn't apply and why an obscure interpretation should be used over the actual scripture.
BrotherDThomas :THIS ISSUE: In Leviticus 18 & 20 it states that "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death".YOUR RESPONSE: This statement on itself dictates that Christians should avoid being homosexual. This statement doesn't dictate homophobia. In other words, we should avoid it, yes, but it doesn't tell us to treat those who do differently.WHAT YOU ARE MISSING: HELLO? We have to admit that our God Jesus stated with specificity that Homosexuals should be MURDERED! Therefore, who are we to say that Jesus is wrong in this respect? Do you want to tell Jesus in prayer tonight that we shouldn't MURDER Gays as he commands? Huh?
I am not obligated to answer this because it is from the comments, and getting help from the comments is against the rules. However, in the spirit of the debate, I will.
The scripture does not order anyone to go out and kill homosexuals. It just says that they shall be put to death. Do you know who else is put to death? LITERALLY EVERYBODY.
Romans 6:23: "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
So, because of that, that is a non-unique argument. Furthermore, as I showed, everyone is guilty of the entire law if they've sinned even once, which means everyone would be subject to that punishment.
James 2:10: "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."
So, my opponent's argument is basically that, because homosexuality is a sin, the Bible is, therefore, saying to discriminate against people who practice it. However, that means that it is saying to discriminate against people who sin, which is EVERYONE.
Ecclesiastes 7:20: "Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins."
So my opponent's argument is, essentially, that we must go around and kill everyone, including ourselves. This reductio ad absurdum shows just how ridiculous such an argument is and how unfounded it is.
John 15:12: “My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you."
Meaning of judge : form an opinion or conclusion about.You most definitely cannot judge the fact that God himself ordered homosexuals to be put to death.
Matthew 7:1: “Do not judge, or you too will be judged."
The scripture does not deal with facts. It is talking about human beings. I don't even understand how that argument applies to this debate.
My opponent fails to give any reason whatsoever why Occam's Razor doesn't apply and why an obscure interpretation should be used over the actual scripture.
The meaning of the actual scripture here is the one that I have mentioned.
As I have said you only used Occam's Razor for is the sole reason that it fits your "certain view".
Occam's Razor only destroy's the purpose of the scripture (In this situation).
I am not obligated to answer this because it is from the comments, and getting help from the comments is against the rules. However, in the spirit of the debate, I will.
I am deeply sorry to have disobeyed one of the rules.
The scripture does not order anyone to go out and kill homosexuals. It just says that they shall be put to death. Do you know who else is put to death? LITERALLY EVERYBODY.
put to death : usually intentionally or knowingly. penalise, penalize, punish. impose a penalty on; inflict punishment on.
Like what I have said. Occam's Razor isn't always the answer.
So, my opponent's argument is basically that, because homosexuality is a sin, the Bible is, therefore, saying to discriminate against people who practice it. However, that means that it is saying to discriminate against people who sin, which is EVERYONE.
I have only mentioned homosexuality here HOWEVER he keeps pointing out that EVERYONE should be punished for it.
Remember that we are only talking about homosexuality here. If I said that someone should be punished for homosexuality DOESN'T mean that everyone who has done a sin should receive the same punishment.
John 15:12: “My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you."
So you're basically saying that we shouldn't follow his other ORDERS and just live life while forgetting that we are committing SINS?
That isn't the case here. YES God said that we should love eachother, BUT disobeyers must still be PUNISHED for their wrongdoings.
The scripture does not deal with facts. It is talking about human beings. I don't even understand how that argument applies to this debate
BUT God himself has stated that homosexuals must be punished for their wrongdoings. THAT IS AN ORDER.
Us humans cannot judge others as for this BUT we are still able to penalize through GOD'S ORDERS
Thank you for this debate sir :D
Why?
.
For Christ's sake, the JUDEO-Christian bible is most certainly homophobic within the Old and New Testaments, period. If there is any fake Christian that says otherwise, then they should discard their Christianity post haste to save further embarrassment in the eyes of Jesus the Christ!
Kids, nothing but kids.
.
*******************************************************************
>Reported Vote: Dr.Franklin // Mod action: [Removed]
>Points Awarded: 3 points to con for arguments
>Reason for Decision: See below
>Reason for Mod Action: To award argument points, the voter must (1) survey the main arguments and counterarguments in the debate, (2) weigh those arguments and counterarguments against each other, and (3) explain, based on the weighing process, how they reached their decision.
************************************************************************
A=Argument
The BOP was on Pro so I have grouped his arguments
1.Leviticus Quote
2.History
3.Homosexuality is sin
Con arguments
1. Matthew Quote
A1-Pro said-"Yes we should avoid it, but it doesn't mean that we should be a homophile."Conceding the Point
A2-This argument is irrelevent. The Debate resolution is that Does the Bible Tell Christians to be Homophobic? This talked about history.
A3-Again,irrelevent. Doesnt fit thesis or topic.
A1-Both agrees
Arguments-Con
Sources-Tied>No one used any sources outside of Bible
S&P-Ties>No problem with this
Conduct-Tied>Both sides had Great conduct!Great job
Good debate
Lmao I just noticed that you skipped #10 in the rules HAHAHHAHA
The Old Testament is a part of the Bible.
The Letiviticus quote was actually in the old testement?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhHamDQOgjw
shoutout to BrotherDthomas
Alrighty, lol
History is my special field
I don't think I'll tackle anything about Religion for now
No, but feel free to challenge me
I'm still new to this debate thing and still soft.
Thank you for informing me this
Closing rounds are a weird thing, because they are both where we want to give everything, but also where we should be putting in the least effort (most things of consequence should have already been said).
A tactic some unmentionables use is a Final Round Blitzkrieg, which is holding off arguments until the other side truly cannot respond. I advice judges to dismiss these for being inorganic to the debate.
I'm trying to look for debates about history (especially WW1 & WW2)
Anyways about new debates?
Got anything for me
What the fuck did I do to you
I'm just trying to find new debates
How did you even see that comment? XD
he's much better than ramshutu but still is flawed
Thanks to the voting legeeeeeeeeeeeeeeend
You can't cheat me :)
*******************************************************************
>Reported Vote: Teh_ChosenOne // Mod action: Removed
>Points Awarded: 6 points to pro for arguments, sources and conduct.
>Reason for Decision: Boopy seems to have the high ground
>Reason for Mod Action: The voter is not eligable to vote. A voter must have 2 complete non troll and non forfeit debates, or 100 forum comments in order to vote and must have read the code of conduct.
Saying this; the vote would also be insufficient, with the voter not sufficiently explaining any of the key points awarded.
The voter should familiarize themselves with the code of conduct here: https://www.debateart.com/rules
*******************************************************************
*******************************************************************
>Reported Vote: RotobagaLover // Mod action: Removed
>Points Awarded: 6 points to pro for arguments, sources and conduct. 1 point to con for S&G
>Reason for Decision: The battle was tough.
Although I liked Boopy's arguments better
>Reason for Mod Action: The voter is not eligable to vote. A voter must have 2 completes non troll and non forfeit debates, or 100 forum comments in order to vote and must have read the code of conduct.
Saying this; the vote would also be insufficient, with the voter not sufficiently explaining any of the key points awarded.
The voter should familiarize themselves with the code of conduct here: https://www.debateart.com/rules
*******************************************************************
*******************************************************************
>Reported Vote: ChristianDPriest // Mod action: Removed
>Points Awarded: 6 points to pro for arguments, sources and conduct. 1 point to con for S&G
>Reason for Decision: Speedrace had better grammar than Boopy
But overall Boopy has provided better arguments than Speedrace
>Reason for Mod Action: The voter is not eligable to vote. A voter must have 2 completes non troll and non forfeit debates, or 100 forum comments in order to vote and must have read the code of conduct.
Saying this; the vote would also be insufficient, with the voter not sufficiently explaining any of the key points awarded.
The voter should familiarize themselves with the code of conduct here: https://www.debateart.com/rules
*******************************************************************
Please fully read my comment before you spit out anymore words out of that dirty mouth of yours.
If you continue to act like this.
You'll become a hindrance to society
LOL, your profile literally says it was made TODAY
He literally just lied, that’s an admission if I’ve ever seen one
If you think that I'm a bot or some sort. Please don't. I've been observing this debate since round 1.
Although it's questionable that this account is new, it's because I haven't been really fond of debates, but this one really caught my Interest and I really had to carry out my vote and opinion about this debate.
I’m calling cheats...all three of those voters signed up today, and they all happen to vote only against me? And all within an hour of each other
I didnt save arguments for last.
I have badly worded the statement once again.
What I meant by conserve everything was to give all my effort at the last round
As I have said. English isn't my first language
TO ALL VOTERS
My opponent just admitted to saving everything for last, which is a violation of the rules of the debate because you can’t make new arguments in the last round
Well
I was actually planning on saving everything for last
I was conserving everything
Anyways
You gave me a really good debate :D
Dude, why did you save so many arguments for the last round? I couldn’t even respond to any of those >:(
No, it doesn't. It never says "if you see a gay person, kill them." It doesn't tell HUMANS to do that. Furthermore, the Bible says that the wages of sin, ANY SIN, is death. So you're basically saying that the Bible is telling us to kill anyone who sins, which is LITERALLY EVERYONE. That's obviously not true.
Though I disagree with you about many things, I agree with you on this one. The Bible literally tells Christians to kill gays.
.
Speedrace,
THIS ISSUE: In Leviticus 18 & 20 it states that "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death".
YOUR RESPONSE: This statement on itself dictates that Christians should avoid being homosexual. This statement doesn't dictate homophobia. In other words, we should avoid it, yes, but it doesn't tell us to treat those who do differently.
WHAT YOU ARE MISSING: HELLO? We have to admit that our God Jesus stated with specificity that Homosexuals should be MURDERED! Therefore, who are we to say that Jesus is wrong in this respect? Do you want to tell Jesus in prayer tonight that we shouldn't MURDER Gays as he commands? Huh?
.
I agree
If everyone is guilty of homosexuality, and then the Bible is saying that everyone should be executed for that...
Yeah I guess that is the prevailing opinion of most Gays in society today. Christian churches have dropped the ball there, not all but many.
Your mental gymnastics are astounding. If everyone is guilty of homosexuality, why should only homosexuals be executed according to the Bible? Do you even understand what homophobia is?
I was just using the traditional one that is portrayed in society today
Thanks lol :P
In my opinion, Speedrace's definition of homophobic is not accurate and makes it difficult to debate against, but since Speedrace laid down the debate rules the opponent has to play by them. God loves all people and that includes homosexuals. He hates their sin but loves the sinner.
You're sneaky, lol!
Because it says that anyone who breaks part of the law has broken every part of the law, which means that everyone is guilty of homosexuality, not just LGBT
But the Bible literally says that men who have homosexual sex should be put to death! How is that not discrimination based on sexual orientation?
Hardly, what I am saying is that calling something a sin doesn't mean the Bible is saying that we should discriminate against people who commit that sin
Are you saying that homosexuals and thieves are the same thing?
The Bible says that thieves will go to hell. Is that not kleptophobic?
let's just wait for his response
The Bible says that if two men have sex with each other they should be executed. Is that not homophobic?
Right back at ya