This fucking site.

Author: drafterman

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drafterman
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@bsh1
We all make choices. For example, you choose not to do your job and instead post memes to try and anger users you are displeased with.

I choose to gripe, complain, and take low-ball pot-shots at the moderation. I do that because I feel that the system in place is beyond fucked and there is no point in even trying to work within its mechanisms to improve it. You've stacked the deck too far against it.

also choose to post constructively as well. Part of me holds out hope for improvement, though it dwindles day by day and is probably based only in irrational sentiment. Even if I am not here to see such improvement, the information is at least out there for someone with more hope or patience than I to make use of it.

So I do both.

You can choose to respond to the former, the latter, neither, or both. You chose to respond only to the non-constructive stuff. What do you think that says about you?
3RU7AL
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@Castin
Wait why does "reports have been handled" mean "mod approved"? Poly was temp banned for two days following that post. 
Perhaps some indicator could be added to posts that are considered in violation?

Without some explicit indicator or flag or label or note or strike-through, the bad behavior could easily appear to be accepted practice.

Polytheist-Witch
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@3RU7AL
Once a post is flagged and a mod addresses it a note is in the place of the flag. That's all. 
3RU7AL
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@Polytheist-Witch
Once a post is flagged and a mod addresses it a note is in the place of the flag. That's all. 
I think a more explicit indication that action was taken against the poster for violation of the site rules might be in order.

drafterman
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@3RU7AL
Or they could just delete content that breaks the rules.
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@drafterman
Or they could just delete content that breaks the rules.
I agree.
Castin
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@3RU7AL
Wait why does "reports have been handled" mean "mod approved"? Poly was temp banned for two days following that post. 
Perhaps some indicator could be added to posts that are considered in violation?

Without some explicit indicator or flag or label or note or strike-through, the bad behavior could easily appear to be accepted practice.
Post #36

A member quickly expressed their preference for post deletion. Short of threats or doxxing, I am against post deletion, personally.


Raltar
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@Castin
And yet, here is another user in favor of deletion...
Castin
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@Raltar
I thought you wanted moderators to stop deferring to what members favor. Or at least, defer to it less.
Raltar
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@Castin
Nice strawman, but no. The mods claim members don't want posts deleted when they violate the rules. My point is that this isn't true. 
3RU7AL
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@Castin
A member quickly expressed their preference for post deletion. Short of threats or doxxing, I am against post deletion, personally. 
Perhaps some indicator (other than deletion, perhaps even a note saying "post in violation") could be added to posts that are considered in violation?

Without some explicit indicator or flag or label or note or strike-through, the bad behavior could easily appear to be accepted practice.

Castin
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@Raltar
  • 1. All "debates" which take place in the forums are merely flamewars.
  • 2. Only formal debates have distinguished value or legitimacy.
  • 3. Moderation should not listen to people who are primarily active in the forums, with low formal debate activity.
^ These are your points I disagree with.

  • 4. Moderation is inconsistent.
  • 5. Moderators should have more tools in their toolbox.
^ Your points I can understand.

There is too much emphasis on the forums, too few people participate in formal debates, too many people participate exclusively in the forums, and the moderators are defending their moderating style based on what people say about them on the forums.

So the reason I'm highlighting the excessive forum participation vs. the debate participation ratio of all your examples is to demonstrate that it is almost entirely forum users who think the moderators are too "heavy-handed" (as you say), but people like myself who mainly emphasize debate participation (or have a more balanced approach) are frustrated by inconsistent, ineffective and heavily delayed moderator actions on the debates/comments/votes.

Essentially, to spell it out for you, I'm saying you have a flaw in your statistical analysis. You are claiming that a majority of users are voicing complaints about "heavy-handedness", when in reality your examples show that all such users making those complaints are forum-heavy with little or no debate-participation. You have excluded a large part of the user-base from your analysis to focus only on a vocal minority.
^ I think that's valid, Ral. Moderation does give much of its attention to forum drama, and I do think much of that drama comes from a vocal minority. Formal debates can get pushed behind in the site conversation (which is not to say that I think they're ignored entirely). But the forums are the only place where people, y'know... talk.
Polytheist-Witch
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I think if one can be banned for it, deletion is in order. Or the chance to alter it before it's dinged

Castin
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@3RU7AL
A member quickly expressed their preference for post deletion. Short of threats or doxxing, I am against post deletion, personally. 
Perhaps some indicator (other than deletion, perhaps even a note saying "post in violation") could be added to posts that are considered in violation?

Without some explicit indicator or flag or label or note or strike-through, the bad behavior could easily appear to be accepted practice.
I'll run it by Mike. It'll be task #859,393 on his to-do list, heh.

Raltar
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@Castin
Moderation should not listen to people who are primarily active in the forums
Again, strawman. It seems you are getting some of my ideas/opinions mixed up with other users. Others have said that the mods should act without consideration of public opinion. I have not ever directly supported that idea, nor have I ever said that forum users should be entirely ignored if they refuse to participate in formal debates. 

I have said that it's damn weird to sign up for a formal debate site just to lurk in the forums and never debate, but that is largely a side-point to my main thesis.

So, one more time for you; 
Each time I ask moderators to delete posts that violate the rules, the moderator rebuttal is that they cannot delete posts because "the community" told them not to do that. However, every person asked about it in this thread has said the exact opposite, indicating that "the community" obviously has a different opinion than what the moderators are claiming.



keithprosser
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@Castin
But the forums are the only place where people, y'know... talk.
The comments on a debate are de facto forum threads.

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@3RU7AL
Without some explicit indicator or flag or label or note or strike-through, the bad behavior could easily appear to be accepted practice.
Undeleted but struck-through posts would also serve as examples of what is unacceptable.  That would be my choice.  Obviously offending posts may have to be doctored to mangle anything that can't be public, but deletion just creates mystery and conspiracy theories.    

Castin
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@keithprosser
But the forums are the only place where people, y'know... talk.
The comments on a debate are de facto forum threads.
You already know the answer to this, I think.

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@Raltar

I have said that it's damn weird to sign up for a formal debate site just to lurk in the forums and never debate, but that is largely a side-point to my main thesis.
Я думаю, что вы втайне хотите быть похожими на нас.

Raltar
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@DrChristineFord
I think you secretly want to be like us.
Oh no, more Russian meddling. 

10 days later

3RU7AL
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@keithprosser
Undeleted but struck-through posts would also serve as examples of what is unacceptable.  That would be my choice.  Obviously offending posts may have to be doctored to mangle anything that can't be public, but deletion just creates mystery and conspiracy theories.     
I would like to be able to compare the actual enforcement (banning/censoring) to the "COC/rulez".

For example, we can see that certain members are currently banned because their name is showing a strike-thru (mark of shame), but I'm not sure how or if anyone can tell why this happened to them or when they might be back (unbanned)?
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@Castin
I'll run it by Mike. It'll be task #859,393 on his to-do list, heh. 
Thank you.
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@3RU7AL
I mentioned that a while back.
If the idea is that banning shouldn't be public to avoid shaming then the struck-though name is a bit of a give-away.

Castin
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@3RU7AL
bish has said many times that people should PM him if they wish to know why the person was banned and for how long.

339 days later

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@Castin
Fair.