I'd like to hear any strong arguments you might have for atheism.
What's the strongest argument for atheism?
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@Fallaneze
Man makes gods.
My only argument would be that without evidence, there is no reason to believe in theism.
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@TwoMan
But that means your position on the claim "God exists" is that it's neither more plausibly true nor more plausibly false.
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@Fallaneze
But that means your position on the claim "God exists" is that it's neither more plausibly true nor more plausibly false.
Yes, I suppose it does mean that.
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@Fallaneze
My position in regard to the claim "gods exist" is that the claim has no evidentiary support and is therefore false, gods don't exist.
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@TwoMan
So even the slightest bit of information favoring the existence of God would make you a believer?
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@disgusted
Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?
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@Fallaneze
Obviously. But proving not favouring.
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@Fallaneze
Yes if you propose without any evidence that something outside of reality interacts with reality, but that something doesn't leave the evidence that such an interaction would reasonably be expected to leave.
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@disgusted
Basing a conclusion on lack of evidence is an argument from ignorance
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@Fallaneze
Basing a conclusion as to the veracity of a claim is all about evidence, if there is no evidence supporting the claim then the claim is false and must be dismissed, in effect nullifying said claim ergo said claim does no longer exist in reality, it is a nonsense.
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@Fallaneze
Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?
Well, how can you you be sure there's no elephant in your fridge?
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@keithprosser
Elephants don't present the same metaphysical problems that belief in the divine would.
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@Fallaneze
The default position is skepticism.
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@coal
Elephants don't present the same metaphysical problems that belief in the divine would.
I know little of metaphysics. I was addressing "Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?".
The answer is often assumed to be no, but just ain't so! Very often it is.
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@keithprosser
When taking into account my background knowledge that elephants live on a different continent, the dimensions of an elephant, the cubic feet of my fridge, and my daily observations in and around my fridge, all indicates that there is not an elephant in my fridge. If someone were to ask me if I was sure that there was no elephant in my fridge I would say yes. I have much more information indicating that the claim is false rather than true.
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@secularmerlin
Skepticism isn't a worldview though.
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@keithprosser
It depends on how you define the word "evidence."
When we imagine a situation where we observe the absence of something, like the absence of an elephant in my fridge, I'd consider this evidence of absence - not absence of evidence. I am basing my conclusion that there is not an elephant in my fridge on information that indicates the truth of the claim (evidence).
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@Fallaneze
I refer you to my reply to coal. (#16).
I think with minor adustments what you posted in #17 would make a fair argument why god [probably] does not exist.
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@Fallaneze
Neither is atheism.
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@keithprosser
If the posited defintion of God includes physical characteristics then sure, you could run an inductive argument against God using the same logic I used with the elephant in my fridge.
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@secularmerlin
But that means your position on the claim "God exists" is that it's neither more plausibly true nor more plausibly false.
Even the slightest bit of information favoring the existence of God would make you a believer?
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@Fallaneze
It would take sufficient evidence. Beliefs are not a choice. One cannot simply choose to believe something that one considers false.
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@secularmerlin
Is there sufficient evidence when there's more information indicating that the claim is true rather than false?
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@Fallaneze
There is no sufficient evidence of any god(s). One cannot say that no god(s) could exist (that is a black swan fallacy) but many god claims can be dismissed as logically contradictory.
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@secularmerlin
I'm asking you what the threshold of "sufficient evidence" is. Is it when there's more information indicating the claim is true rather than untrue?
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@Fallaneze
It depends on how you define the word "evidence."
I don't have the power to define words.
Despite the cliche, absence of evidence very often is evidence of absence. The proverb should be more like 'absence of evidence isn't proof of absence', but sometimes absence of evidence gets very close to the level of proof.
i suppose the moral is 'don't rely on cliches'. 'You can't prove a negative' is another false proverb!
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@Fallaneze
Evidence varies in ways such as veracity, weight, relevance, etc. The evidence would need to be evaluated on its merits. The slightest bit of circumstantial evidence probably would not sway me especially with a subject as weighty as this. Evidence would need to be such that it can't be explained away by another phenomenon.
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@keithprosser
But when you refer to "absence of evidence" I presume you're envisioning a situation where we observe the absence of something and determine a likelihood of it existing. That is evidence of absence, not absence of evidence. Evidence refers to information about a claim.