Is it racism?

Author: cristo71
Racism

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#1
cristo71
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Say you are having a look around at a toy store in the USA. You see a certain doll selling for $20. Nearby, you see a dark skinned version of that doll selling for only $14. Is it:

A. Priced according to the law of supply and demand
B. Evidence of systemic racism
C. Both A and B
D. Some other explanation
#2
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@cristo71
Both A and B. They are treating dark-skinned variants as another product when in reality it should be treated as the same product in the supply-demand model because equality.
#3
RationalMadman
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D. That is not evidence of systemic racism, it could be evidence that the way the dark-skinned doll is made is less appealing even to black people (this is assuming only black people would buy a darker doll as opposed to Indians or white people and all sorts of ethnic backgrounds).

The entire thing is ludicrous.

You should first statistically analyse the reasoning behind the demand. Perhaps people are into white dolls more, even black people. We don't even know or have a clue if black people are the ones primarily buying 'black dolls'. This is all assuming so much. It could be caucasians buying both and willing to spend less on darker skinned ones, it could be so many factors such as how the same outfit works with the physical look differently.

You must analyse all these things before saying more on the matter. Furthermore, it may cost more to colour and structure a face in a more caucasian-doll manner, some things need to be analysed and are not for you to talk as if you know the full story.
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#4
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@Intelligence_06
In the supply/demand model, supply and demand determine prices, not concepts of equality or fairness.

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#5
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@RationalMadman
Agreed— you bring up some thoughtful points. Even if dark skinned people were to prefer light skinned dolls though, that would still be seen by anti racists as an example of how entrenched white supremacy is— answer B.
#6
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@cristo71
You are indeed right. Though,

What I am saying is that dolls for other races and dolls representing black folks are represented in different demand curves when in reality they should really be considered to be on the same demand/supply curve. They should be considered to be the same good essentially, just like you should consider a red Chevrolet and a black Chevrolet the same product. Well maybe not the exactly same, but they really should be considered to be of equal value to each other.
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#7
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@Intelligence_06
I see what you’re saying, but the reality is that keeping proper inventories is an aspect of an economy. I know first hand that right now, brightly colored cars sell more cheaply than white or gray cars. Of course, racism has nothing to do with that (I think? These days, almost everything can be analyzed through the lens of race). If a store ended up with 20 dark skinned dolls and 5 light skinned dolls, it would be motivated to put the dark skinned dolls on sale, even if the manufacturer originally sold them at the same price wholesale.
#8
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The question is no longer "IS IT RACIST" The question is what isn't and/or cant be made racist. Everything by default is racist or will be made racist. The word has no meaning anymore.
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#9
cristo71
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@sadolite
Indeed. Remember the movie “Wargames”? It concluded that the only way to win a nuclear confrontation was not to start one. Attempting to “win” in the antiracism framework seems similarly futile…

#10
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@cristo71
Agreed anything and everything can be portrayed as racist. There is no end to it and never will be. Every single person on earth and everything in it is racist. All one has to do is call it racist and it is. That's how fucking stupid as a collective  humanity is.
#11
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@sadolite
The question is no longer "IS IT RACIST" The question is what isn't and/or cant be made racist. Everything by default is racist or will be made racist. The word has no meaning anymore.

Agreed anything and everything can be portrayed as racist. There is no end to it and never will be. Every single person on earth and everything in it is racist. All one has to do is call it racist and it is. That's how fucking stupid as a collective  humanity is.
I wholeheartedly agree with both statements above. 
#12
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@TWS1405_2
For sure.

I was going to buy a choc-ice

And then realised I was woke.


So which is the wokest/most woke?


A.  Whitish ice cream covered in white chocolate

B.  Chocolate ice cream covered in dark chocolate

C.  Chocolate ice cream covered in whitish chocolate

D.  Whitish ice cream covered in dark chocolate.


Current trends would suggest either B or D.

Yep.....Whitish dominated by dark, is the most woke.
 
Sorted.

So I can now buy a choc-ice with confidence.



Just checking.

If I buy one with nuts, will I be insulting any of the trans/pronoun/neutral brigade?









#13
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@cristo71
Is it racism?
Yes. Wait... what are we talking about?

Say you are having a look around at a toy store in the USA. You see a certain doll selling for $20. Nearby, you see a dark skinned version of that doll selling for only $14. Is it:

A. Priced according to the law of supply and demand
Most likely.

B. Evidence of systemic racism
I don't see how it could be. Even if one were to propose that the dark-skinned doll's price is a reflection of the distributor's racist evaluation, one can easily counter such an argument by pointing out that the decreased price barrier--i.e. cheaper price--allows for more accessibility.

C. Both A and B
Likely A.

D. Some other explanation
The dark-skinned doll probably commands less demand because of demographics. This probably requires a more in-depth discussion about dolls and body image, etc., but at the surface, it's just a subject of commerce.

37 days later

#14
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@cristo71
I don't know if racism, but if I was black I would be happy the doll is more affordable than one sold to crackers.

I would also find it odd if the same people who say women paying more for shampoo is sexist but Blackies paying less for toys is also racist. It seems like they would be inconsistent beliefs
#15
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@Athias
Here is question for you . Let's say a retailer looks at the theft rate of items and it just so happens the highest theft items are black beauty products. Is it racist to then put more theft prevention devices on those black beauty products?

If it is racist than I have follow up questions. 

Why is it racist?

What could be done to prevent theft without overspending on theft prevention devices and that would be less racist?


I am also aware that from a business owners perspective it might be beneficial not o ly to avoid racism but to avoid being seen as racist even if it involves eating the cost of extra theft or also putting theft prevention devices on white beauty products as well, but I am asking from a different perspective. One of reality not perception.
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@ponikshiy
What specifically is Black?

And what specifically is White?

Is a swarthy Spaniard for example, black or white?

Is it just skin pigment that is the indicator?..If so can you quantify the amount of pigment that defines the difference between the generalisations that are "black and white".

And therefore are higher levels of pigment the specific cause of dishonesty and poor social morality?
#17
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@zedvictor4
What specifically is Black?

And what specifically is White?
I hope you never need to call 911 to give description of a guy who mugs you.

And therefore are higher levels of pigment the specific cause of dishonesty and poor social morality?

I doubt that differences in skin pigment cause a genetic disposition towards crime. 

I don't believe I have ever claimed that black people are more likely to commit a crime than non black people. However if the statistics reflect that, I assume it has to do with a lot of the history of persecution of blacks in America and it's effects on generational poverty.

Please do not come back with

"What is it about less money that genetically predisposes poor people to crime"

I dont want to have to get into some nuanced discussion about the fact that poor people are often more desperate for money than rich people. Let's proceed with common sense.

#18
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@ponikshiy
Here is question for you . Let's say a retailer looks at the theft rate of items and it just so happens the highest theft items are black beauty products. Is it racist to then put more theft prevention devices on those black beauty products?
Why would it be? The only way I can see its being technically "racist" is if the retailer hires security specifically to keep a watchful eye on so-called "Black" patrons as a result. The conception of so-called "Black" beauty products is necessarily and in and of itself racist.

I am also aware that from a business owners perspective it might be beneficial not o ly to avoid racism but to avoid being seen as racist even if it involves eating the cost of extra theft or also putting theft prevention devices on white beauty products as well, but I am asking from a different perspective. One of reality not perception.
Well, I would imagine that the cost differences of theft devices on so-called "White" beauty products would be marginal at best, since--and I'm confidently assuming--they're located in proximity to so-called "Black" beauty products. A supplier can only respond and adjust to the habits of its consumers, so if there's a substantial drop in consumption as a result of the specification of these theft prevention devices, then I'm sure the supplier will find it well worth the cost to appear "less racist" by implementing theft prevention measures on all his/her/their beauty products.

#19
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@zedvictor4
What specifically is Black?

And what specifically is White?
They're government designations which elide cultural distinction.

Is a swarthy Spaniard for example, black or white?

Is it just skin pigment that is the indicator?
Yes, that is the convention.

If so can you quantify the amount of pigment that defines the difference between the generalisations that are "black and white".
I doubt it.

And therefore are higher levels of pigment the specific cause of dishonesty and poor social morality?
Yes, that is the convention as some would have it.

#20
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@ponikshiy
So what if the mugger was a swarthy Spaniard.

Were they black or white?
#21
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@zedvictor4
I think brown. But I don't know that it matters beyond helping the police identify them. 

Here is my color break downs

White

White people

Brown

Mexicans
South Americans
Spaniards

Black

Africans 

Yellow

Asian 

Red

American Indians

Orange

Donald Trump
Several bodybuilders

Not everybody would neatly fall into categories like that though. 
#22
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@ponikshiy
So Black are Africans.

Even though Africa is a vast continent.

And the further North you go the lighter Africans become.


And White remains as indeterminate as ever

With not even a continental association.


And some Asians are as black as Africans, or as white as whites, or as swarthy as Spaniards.

And the greater part of Russia is to be found in Asia.

So a lot of Russians are yellow?


And American Indians are generally Asian in origin, with white influences

So should therefore should be pale yellow rather than red.


And then there is inter-breeding to consider.


And strange orangeness for sure.
#23
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@zedvictor4
I gave you a general overview.

Are you trying to make a point with your pedantic comment? If not than I am not interested in this sort of pedantic. 

You put people into whatever categories you want for your purposes. If you think 5ft 6in and 200 pounds is skinny, call it skinny but please do not ask me where I draw the line between these pedantic things. 

This is one of those things that held philosphers back for a while in Aristotles time. 

You had them arguing about how many grains of sand does it take to make a mountain, and what is the precise point at which one grain of sand is the difference between a hill and a mountain.

It was a debate that great minds wasted their time on. Words are clunky. U less you want to learn some stupid con lang like  Ithkuil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithkuil#:~:text=Ithkuil%20is%20by%20far%20the,described%20in%20far%20greater%20detail.

#24
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@Athias
Here is an article for reference. This was dominating the news cycle I think in 2012 for like a week. https://apnews.com/article/4736f57884783118f16c767f4aafab20

The conception of so-called "Black" beauty products is necessarily and in and of itself racist.
Black people often have different hair care needs than non blacks. Also razor bump treatment is more common I. African Americans. 

Different skin tones have different needs. 
#25
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@ponikshiy
Black people often have different hair care needs than non blacks.
I would imagine in some cases this is true.

Also razor bump treatment is more common I. African Americans. 
Okay.

Different skin tones have different needs. 
That may be, but like zedvictor insinuated, there are various "skin tones" that fall under the designated umbrella term, "Black."

In 2018, Essie Grundy sued Walmart for locking up beauty items catering to black women. According to the complaint, Grundy went to the Walmart store in Perris, California several times and had to ask a sales clerk to unlock the display case for black hair and body products. Meanwhile, beauty items for non-blacks were not under lock and key, according to the suit. Grundy said she felt “shame and humiliation” as people were staring at her as if she were criminal as she waited for assistance.
This is hilarious.
#26
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@ponikshiy
Hmmmm.

And the trouble with such a general overview is that it generally produces a glib misrepresentation of the human race.

And pointing out the generally  inaccurate vagueness of your classification system is hardly pedantic.

If you want to get pedantic lets look in depth  at physiology, anatomy and anthropology.

And perhaps also sociology.
#27
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@Athias
That may be, but like zedvictor insinuated, there are various "skin tones" that fall under the designated umbrella term, "Black."
It's just like with kids and adults. A 7 yr of doesn't need tampons while an adult does. 

Fair skin people burn more than darker people In the sun.  

We all have different needs.

I guess you are probably a man, and a single one if you do not realize we use a lot of beauty products and they all have very specific uses. Like my sunscreen protects me from the sun. My mascara helps me create my fuck me eyes. 
#28
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@zedvictor4
And the trouble with such a general overview is that it generally produces a glib misrepresentation of the human race.
How would describing a kid napper who takes your as being a dark skinned black male who was 6ft 3 in 200 pounds with an afro, give a glib picture of human race?

Why if your kid is kidnapped would you care more about what picture you paint of the human race, then you would about concisely giving as many details as possible to quickly locate your kid? 
#29
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@ponikshiy
A general overview of an entire species is not the same as ones perception of an individual.

Though your T.V. inspired kidnapping scenario is not really relevant to the discussion.
#30
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@ponikshiy
I guess you are probably a man, and a single one if you do not realize we use a lot of beauty products and they all have very specific uses. Like my sunscreen protects me from the sun. My mascara helps me create my fuck me eyes. 
I don't know how willing I am to indulge your new persona, when you needlessly make mention of your "fuck eyes."