Everyone should have an abortion

Author: Best.Korea

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P1. Good way to prevent pain of someone is to prevent birth of that someone.
P2. Abortion prevents birth of that someone.
C. Good way to prevent pain of someone is to have an abortion

Abortion is not only justified, but morally required in order to be a good person.

By law of morality: "Do not cause more pain than you remove",

Giving birth simply doesnt work. The world is cruel, and bringing the most sentient being in the world where that being will be tortured is simply a cruel action.
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@Best.Korea
are you still a christian? how do you describe how your faith reconciles with your stance on abortion? 

this new you is hard to tell if it's genuine. you went from no abortions to abortions for everyone. lol 
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@Best.Korea
A person must already 'exist, in order for them to be aborted, (From some people's viewpoints)
If you believe that bringing someone into existence is to cause pain to someone, don't have sex.
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@n8nrgim
are you still a christian? how do you describe how your faith reconciles with your stance on abortion
Christianity says that its better not to marry. So that means its also better not to have children.

Plus, if you abort a person, you are also preventing birth of that person's children, their children's children and so on.

You are basically saving hundreds if not thousands of people from pain by aborting just one person.
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@Best.Korea
do you still view the bible as inerrant? 

before i thought you weren't very open minded, but now you seem too open minded 
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@Lemming
If you believe that bringing someone into existence is to cause pain to someone, don't have sex.
I never had sex. Not having sex is also a good way for someone to prevent bringing more people into existence.

However, most people cant resist. Thats why I say that condoms, pills and abortion pills are good. Also, sexual deviations are good too. For example, a homosexual is much less likely to have children. Trans cant even have children. Bisexuals are problematic.
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@n8nrgim
I have problems with the Bible, such as contradictive commands that I can interpret in basically any way I want. I believe its the word of God, although the Old Testament doesnt exactly agree with the New.
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@Best.Korea
"Plus, if you abort a person, you are also preventing birth of that person's children, their children's children and so on.
You are basically saving hundreds if not thousands of people from pain by aborting just one person." - Best.Korea #4

I don't agree with that logic.
. .

By it one might as well kill living and already born people, to prevent them from suffering some moment in the future,
As they inevitably 'will have some suffering.

Additionally a person already born will 'also likely have children of their own.
. .

You say "if you abort a person,"
This can be seen in at least two ways,
One, aborting the process to 'create a person,
Two, killing a 'person,
I ask, what is your meaning there?

@NoOneInParticular
Virtue, Consequentialism. . .
Even if I don't eat that piece of meat, someone else will,
If attempting to push an object with a group of people, know I if enough people are willing to push the log?
Is there meaning in pushing, even if I know the attempt will fail,
If I 'don't know but suspect,
If I believe my own efforts will in a later attempt lead to a successful push. . .
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@Lemming
By it one might as well kill living and already born people
Killing born people is usually illegal. Not always, but usually. I am not allowed to promote illegal things here. Abortion is legal in some countries and should be done if its legal. I argue that it should be legal everywhere.

Even if I don't eat that piece of meat, someone else wil
Actually, by aborting a person, you are reducing population. For example, by aborting a male baby, you are possibly leaving 1 female either without a partner either forced to seek another partner. However, by aborting a female baby, you are reducing number of women and therefore reducing a number of baby factories and reducing production of babies.
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@Best.Korea
Euthanasia 'is legal in some American states,
Though one 'does wonder a bit, 'what jurisdictions, laws are meant by, illegal.

I also find the implication that you'd suggest murdering healthy wanting to live people, a bit disturbing,
But, you have said in the past not to take you seriously, so ah well.
. . .

Other people are more than willing to make up in population,
For the individuals that do not produce, I am thinking.

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@Lemming
Other people are more than willing to make up in population, For the individuals that do not produce, I am thinking.
Actually, 2 children per woman are needed to maintain population.

However, if only 50% of women chose abortion, the other women would need to have 4 children each to maintain population.

If 75% of women chose abortion, then the remaining women would need to have 6 children each to make up for that.

Now, if 100% of women chose abortions, then there would be no one to make up for that.

There is also personal responsibility. By choosing abortion, you are preventing pain. If others cause pain, that is not your fault as you have done everything you could to prevent pain. Therefore, it is not justified to do evil just because others do it.
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@Best.Korea
50% of women is a lot,
And some families in history were 'massive.

I think you are unlikely to convince any nation or location not to have kids,
And logically if they didn't have kids,
They would die out and their land would then be taken by people who 'do have kids.
. .
Even if they adopted,
They would arguably be causing people to come into existence by creating an incentive for 'other people to have kids.
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A person must already 'exist, in order for them to be aborted, (From some people's viewpoints)
If you believe that bringing someone into existence is to cause pain to someone, don't have sex.

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@Lemming
I think you are unlikely to convince any nation or location
This is not about me convincing anyone. I will not be guilty just because I cant convince everyone to have an abortion. I am simply stating that everyone should have an abortion. If everyone in the world had an abortion, if no one gave birth, that would be great. Now, the fact that people are refusing to do that has nothing to do with the fact that it is morally right that everyone has an abortion. It still stands that giving birth is morally wrong.


If you believe that bringing someone into existence is to cause pain to someone, don't have sex.
My personal responsibility is not to cause more pain than I remove. By choosing not to have children, I have not caused any pain. Other people, who give births, are causing pain. That is their fault. They are literally producing evil.

Picture it in this way. An example. A group of people wants to torture a person. They will torture him regardless if individual X joins them in torturing that person or not. However, if individual X joined them, then individual X would be at fault too for torturing that person.

Child birth is torture. By giving birth, you are condemning an individual you are giving birth to, to be tortured and to die. You are condemning him to suffer. So many people get raped or get crushed by a truck. So many people are depressed. So many people die painfully. All that could have been avoided if they werent born.

Just because other people are doing evil does not justify you if you do evil. You have a moral obligation to not do evil regardless of if others are doing evil or not.

Therefore, I am morally justified in my decision to not have children. I will never have sex. If I was a female and if I got pregnant, I would have an abortion since that is morally right thing to do. Since I am male, my duty is to not reproduce, and therefore to not cause pain to anyone.
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@Best.Korea
If this thread is not about your questioning the validity of your theory,
Would it 'not be about convincing others?

Certainly 'some people hold the view of Antinatalism.

I 'still disagree with abortion though.
A person must already 'exist, in order for them to be aborted, (From some people's viewpoints)
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@NoOneInParticular
It is bad to kill, (Generally viewed)
But to 'not kill,
To not resist,
To not enforce one's own beliefs,
Results in 'other's beliefs and rule.

If one makes use of the knowledge other's gained by torture,
One participated.
If one adopts children other's had,
One participated.
. .

Hm, I recall 3RU7AL saying something about Trolley's on Discord.
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@Lemming
Would it 'not be about convincing others?
I have no moral duty to convince others. Rather, this was just to point out what is morally right.

Law of morality says:
"Dont cause more pain than you remove".

I dont cause more pain than I remove. So I am following the moral law.

The fact that others choose not to follow moral law, that is not my fault. Thats their fault.

Certainly 'some people hold the view of Antinatalism.
Those are usually good people. Anyone refusing to reproduce is usually good and smart. Good, because he is not causing pain. Smart, because not having kids usually means having more money and time for yourself.

I 'still disagree with abortion though.
A person must already 'exist, in order for them to be aborted
I agree that fetus is a person as much as I agree that cum is a person. However, it doesnt change the fact that abortion is morally justified, while giving birth is morally wrong.
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@Best.Korea
"Just to point out" - Best.Korea

What is the 'purpose of pointing something out to other people?
Is it 'not to attempt to change their behavior?
If I point out a mud puddle in front of someone, am I not trying to get them to avoid stepping in it?
. . ..
Though I suppose some people might simply enjoy the act, of pointing out to others,
Feel some thrill,
Certainly I point out happenings to people now and then, for reasons other than to change their behavior.
. . .

I view there to be 'many 'claimed laws of morality.
. . .

I couldn't say if people who follow antinatalism are usually good and smart.
I've not reached solid conclusions on the subject of antinatalism myself,
And I don't know enough statistics about people who follow it in history.

Though I note your 'reason for calling such a person smart, 'sounds of a self interested person.
. . .

Some people on this site,
View the unborn as a fetus, even a day before it's birth,
Yet such a stage of development, in my view, 'Is 'Not as dissimilar to a person, as cum.

I ask,
What stage of development do 'you speak,
When you say, 'fetus?
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@Lemming
What is the 'purpose of pointing something out to other people?
Usually, to get them to argue and think about it. But again, if I fail to convince them, I am not at moral fault. I already know that I will not convince a lot of people. Therefore, I already know that I will fail to convince the world. So its not the point to convince everyone. It never was. Such point would be impossible to achieve. Rather, I just felt like pointing out whats moral and whats not. However, I maybe convince a few people, and maybe it results in less people being born in the world. Then I would be removing more pain from the world, which is great. Morally, I dont have duty to remove all pain. Just to not cause more pain than I remove.

Though I note your 'reason for calling such a person smart, 'sounds of a self interested person.
It does sound like a selfish person, however that person would not be causing pain, which is the point.

What stage of development do 'you speak,
When you say, 'fetus?
Fetus is before birth. Therefore, moment when cum enters womb and stays in womb until birth. That is fetus. Now, fetus may have different stages of development. Abortion should be done during the stage it is legal, as soon as possible.
Lemming
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@Best.Korea
Then as I said earlier,
Other people are more than willing to make up in population, For the individuals that do not produce, I am thinking.

Whether an individual contributes to the problem or not,
It's possible that that the situation results anyhow,
Though I've not followed that line of thought in my head fully yet.
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A person who chooses not to have kids for selfish reasons,
Sounds also the type of person to take advantage of others or disregard for others, for selfish reasons,
Though they wouldn't 'have to be.
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The legality of stages of fetus abortion varies,
To say it should be done when it is legal, does not fully inform me of your view,
Though you say it should be done as early as possible,
Such a statement is vague in 'reason it should be done as fully as possible.

I ask then whether in locations where it is legal to abort an unborn, a day before natural birth,
Whether it falls into the philosophy you have espoused in this thread, to abort said unborn?
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@Lemming
I view there to be 'many 'claimed laws of morality.
Yes. However, pain is the highest negative value.

Laws of morality may be built around life. However, if I have to live in pain, then I would rather not live at all.

Laws of morality might be built around happiness. However, the presence of pain is worse than the lack of happiness. If person does not exist, he is not happy, but he is also not in pain. If person does exist, he might be happy, but he will be in pain for sure and it is likely that he will also be in great pain. Given the amount of pain and different types of painful deaths, existence is not worthy.
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@Best.Korea
I think, I would prefer to choose for myself,
Whether I live or die.

Though admittedly one might argue,
That some being could exist, 'far more knowledgably than myself,
Or I could be placed in a situation, where my knowledge has left me.
. . 

As things stand though, I am not convinced you know better than myself, what is good for me,
Sofar as the (Generally agreed notion of 'Good goes)
. . .
Sorry about the poetry below,
But this conversation strikes some chord in me,
That past thoughts, observations in me, want to sing.
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I run away from my pain,
Just to live another day,
While there's something to gain,
'I dream to wake again.
- 20Aug2016

Existence be worthy, to my mind.

Oh, I'll laugh to myself,
For days come and gone,
Be it minutes, hours, or days,
I can still think of new ways to play,
And I'll take weeks, and months, and years if I can,
For there's still so much to dream and build on,
Decades and centuries be nice,
And were I to reach a millennium,
I don't think I'd 'ever choose to die.
- 5July 2017

'Still life has enjoyment for me.

Under the stars,
Breathing night air,
Feeling the reasons,
Of why I'm still here,
Been times past,
I'd feel like shit,
Why I keep going?
Moments as this.
- 6Oct2017

Oh we've all got good days and bad days,
Times we squeal with laughter,
Times we scream with pain,
We've highs we climb and overlook all,
And depressions into which we fall,
It's knowing that life's up 'And down,
One might stride through,
Using a stoic attitude.
- 2Nov2017

Though our life begin to tick to an end from our start,
There's ways we can go about it.

Let us be merry,
And let us not tarry,
On which we can't change or deny,
For there's life left to lead,
And grinning and mead,
And songs and tales to be done,
There's company to be had,
Whether good or the bad,
We might as well live on.
- ?

There is 'meaning in our continuance.

There's times in life where you feel no respite,
Stress, worry, leading to melancholy,
Environments causation,
Depressants entitlement,
Oh, but even a free will denier,
Or refuter of life hereafter,
Can still dare pray, hope,
That we were made strong,
Enough to but try,
- 24Apr2018

Many days, I would prefer not to,
But what else does exist in this life?
By that I'm meaning, One's word, Their duties, And commitments,
This all laid upon the back,
That perplexing state, bringing weariness and lightness both,
Though I would prefer not to,
There's people, One feels obliged to,
Tasks started, and not yet finished,
And yet a nyet, crosses the mind, to life's grand design,
Life's purpose, live or die?
Continue on, I would say, though I chose not to start,
I would prefer not to,
Ah, Still, Still I'll distill what's important, supposedly,
The values everyone speaks,
And live, and be, and worry, and weary, That's the heavy,
That I would prefer not to,
But still, grit your teeth, look for the light,
That allows a person, will to fight,
Walk forward, and fulfil empathies obligation,
That feeling for others,
Or when not for other people, just for me myself,
Preferring life's pleasures,
Looking ahead, letting it flow,
To what in life you do prefer.
8May2018

There is contradictions in man,
Sometimes the ending rings high against the living,
But 'I, have 'always wanted to live.


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@Lemming
Other people are more than willing to make up in population, For the individuals that do not produce, I am thinking.
Possible. However, it would not be the fault of individuals who dont reproduce.


Whether an individual contributes to the problem or not,
It's possible that that the situation results anyhow
Yes. However, personal responsibility does not result, since individual didnt cause any child births. Rather, child births were caused by others. Lack of action is not an action.

A person who chooses not to have kids for selfish reasons,
Sounds also the type of person to take advantage of others or disregard for others, for selfish reasons
Possible. Maybe the person chose not to have kids, but removing pain wasnt the reason for that choice.

The legality of stages of fetus abortion varies,
To say it should be done when it is legal, does not fully inform me of your view,
My view is that abortion should be legal at any stage. Some stages are still much better than the others. However, if it is illegal, then people shouldnt break the law. Rather, they should try to not have sex and prevent pregnancy.

I ask then whether in locations where it is legal to abort an unborn, a day before natural birth,
Whether it falls into the philosophy you have espoused in this thread, to abort said unborn?
My view is that the more fetus grows, the more pain it feels. Therefore, it is better to abort it in first two months of pregnancy rather than day before birth. Plus, the abortion at 1 day before birth would likely be very painful for the fetus, since it is not performed the same as early abortion. Early abortion is painless for the fetus. Late abortion causes pain, resulted by person's choice to wait until late stage.
Lemming
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@Best.Korea
I would prefer to live in a society that did not legally allow abortion the day before birth,
'Unless there be reasons such as a significant risk to the mothers life.
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@Lemming
Sorry about the poetry below
I do like good poetry. That was good poetry.
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@Lemming
I would prefer to live in a society that did not legally allow abortion the day before birth
I do hate such abortions. But if they resulted in a decrease of pain, I would say they should be legal for that purpose alone.
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@Best.Korea
I'm a dude. I can't have an abortion even if I want one. Also, I don't want one.
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@Best.Korea
A Zedku for Best.Korea



Pain is simply,

A consequence of,

Being.


Best way then,

Is to not,

Procreate.


Abortion is,

A secondary strategy,

Relative to,

Desire.


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@zedvictor4
Best way then,
Is to not,
Procreate.
I agree. However, some people cant resist sex.

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@Best.Korea
Well, sex is an urge to not be resisted.

So thinking man designed contraception.

But then there are those that don't think.

And so thinking man developed abortion.

Solutions to situations.

Analgesics for example.
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@zedvictor4
So thinking man designed contraception.
But then there are those that don't think.
Contraceptions plus anti-pregnancy pills.

However, if pregnancy still happens, abortion medication as soon as it is discovered.

Basically, if person is responsible, there will never be late-term abortion.
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@Intelligence_06
I'm a dude. I can't have an abortion even if I want one
I often forget that men exist 😅