my position is whether the bible has contradictions in it, is a matter of interpretation

Author: n8nrgim

Posts

Total: 18
Topic's author
#1
n8nrgim
n8nrgim's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,023
3
2
5
n8nrgim's avatar
n8nrgim
3
2
5
can you prove otherwise? usually when this topic comes up, atheists just spam a bunch of alleged contradictions, but they all depend on how you interpret them. they let the debate get lost in the weeds, and they never prove the bible is full of contradictions like they claim it is.so, instead of spamming, can you find three clear contradictions that you are willing to fight are clear contradictions? 

my position is also that it looks like there are a few contradictions and errors, but it depends on how you interpret the bible. for example, jesus said no one has ascended to heaven but the father, but the old testament says two men were taken up by a whirl wind to heaven. this looks like a contradiction. apologists say jesus meant no one has gone to heaven with their own strength and those two old testament men were taken up by whirlwind, not with their own strength. this superficially looks like a cop out, but it depends on the original language of the bible and how you interpret it. 
#2
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,610
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@n8nrgim
I think these 101 contradictions are pretty good.


Topic's author
#3
n8nrgim
n8nrgim's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,023
3
2
5
n8nrgim's avatar
n8nrgim
3
2
5
-->
@FLRW
you just did what i pointed out that skeptics do, and spammed a long list of contradictions that include a lotta fluff. can't you do as i requested and pick your strongest three and then defend your position?
#4
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@n8nrgim
can you prove otherwise? usually when this topic comes up, atheists just spam a bunch of alleged contradictions, but they all depend on how you interpret them. they let the debate get lost in the weeds,

And when Christians are given the chance to offer what they believe to be the correct "interpretation" and or context, they fall at the first fence.


@FLRW can't you do as i requested and pick your strongest three and then defend your position?

It is for you to defend your position and your own interpretation when these biblical contradictions are raised and why according to you they are not contradictions.

Are you claiming that there aren't any contradictions  at all in the scriptures?
Topic's author
#5
n8nrgim
n8nrgim's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,023
3
2
5
n8nrgim's avatar
n8nrgim
3
2
5
-->
@Stephen
i already stated my position. my position is that there are things that look like they are probably contradictions, but they depend on how you interpret them. if your position is that there are clear contradictions, i asked for three examples that someone is willing to defend to be clear contradictions. you are the one dancing around the topic. either put up, or shut up. 
#6
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,649
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
There are no contradictions in the Bible. Just misunderstandings.

Remember that Bible was translated and copied by hand at the start. There were mistakes in translation. Not all people are equally qualified to translate things properly.

This is why different translations of the Bible have different meanings. Some verses have entirely different meanings depending on the version of the Bible.

I go with King James Version.
#7
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,074
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@n8nrgim
I would suggest that people spam contradictions because there are contradictions to be spammed with.


I would also suggest that your response is no less spamming those who spam with spammable contradictions.


In fact, this whole argument has rapidly descend is a contradiction of spammable spam.



#8
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@n8nrgim
i already stated my position. my position is that there are things that look like they are probably contradictions, but they depend on how you interpret them. if your position is that there are clear contradictions, i asked for three examples that someone is willing to defend to be clear contradictions. you are the one dancing around the topic. either put up, or shut up. 
Ok. Lets take three examples that you asked for and from just one of the gospels and by JESUS HIMSELF!.

Equal then not equal
 John10:30 " I and the Father are one".   
John14:28  “ I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I" .

I judge then I don't judge 
John5:22 , 30. " Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son.  By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just".
John8:15     " You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one.
John12:47  " I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

I am my own witness and it is true. Then It is not true.
John8:14  “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going".
John5:31   “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.




Topic's author
#9
n8nrgim
n8nrgim's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,023
3
2
5
n8nrgim's avatar
n8nrgim
3
2
5
-->
@Stephen
the gospel of john is poetic, and discusses mysteries that depend on the context. i mean you are citing verses that you claim are contradicting each other right in the same chapter or thereabouts or the same book, i would think you'd give the book a little more credit and find something more of a slam dunk. why didnt you find something more clear like "moses was a jew" v "moses was not a jew". ? it looks like you aren't even trying to be open minded about context or interpretation. 

1. i mean the trinity is a contradiction itself by human standards. it's a mystery. if you don't accept that it has to be understood deeper, than you can find all sorts of verses that talk about the differenent persons in a different way and conclude it dont make sense. jesus is God, the father is God, but they are both God. in the sense that jesus is his own person, the father can be considered greater, but in the sense that they are both God, they are both equal. 
-a few analogies i use to understand the trinity. a three leaf clover, three parts yet one. a father and brother, in one person we find a father a son and a brother. multi dimensions, in this dimension Jesus reigns, in heaven the father reigns, and the holy spirit has its own dimension. even if the son is in heaven, he is of earth, so he's a visitor to the other dimension even if he's God. 
i understand by earthly standards the trinity doesn't make sense, but you have to be open minded. 

2.  jesus wasn't a judge in his earthly ministry, but he will be a judge when at the end of time. 

3. in the sense that no one under jewish law no one can consider one witness adequate, jesus understands his own testimony isn't considered adequate. but he also understands in another sense that even though that's the case, what he says is true, that's just the way it is. 

i think you need to find clearer examples and be more open minded to different contexts and interpretations. 
#10
Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,205
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3
Fucking has to be currently a EASYYYYYY   a hundred million theists and wayyyyyyy fucking more in the
☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆       《  TOP  10  OF  ALL  TIME. 》      ☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆
At scripture deciphering slash translator fucking  ring.

Why you ask ?? 
Why.

cause ummmm....
There Aint NO mutha fucker that can translate a scripture as ummmm Articulate lee AWSOME  ansd spot on like  you can. 
Oh Andddddddd.
There is even one or two scriptures,  that you are.  
Now get this... 
#   ♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡ UNO ♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡...
Yeah. 
Thats like.    (    BEST FUCKING  EVEREST.  ) 
END OF FUCKING STORY.



What im getting at is. 
Everyone is just. 
Well everyone is just, 
ACE ...  at this  "  translations of the funny writings  " 
I mean 
It becomes blatantly  apparent,   approximately  one and a half reads of or into the bible.
It is aparant thattttttt, 

GOD WROTE THAT BOOK FOR PRETTY MUCH YOU.  
HE FUCKING DID.  And i won't here NO more of it.


Ps.  Would a Christian take " AI 's " exact or most logical meaning of said scriptssssssss. 



WANKERS


I CALL A SCRIPT OFF BITCHES
#11
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@n8nrgim
the gospel of john is poetic, and discusses mysteries that depend on the context. i mean you are citing verses that you claim are contradicting each other right in the same chapter or thereabouts or the same book, i would think you'd give the book a little more credit and find something more of a slam dunk. why didnt you find something more clear like "moses was a jew" v "moses was not a jew". ? it looks like you aren't even trying to be open minded about context or interpretation. 

Context, context, context, context,

Why do you not simply explain to us all reading here why you believe the verses I offered here #8 are not contradictions? And how you personally interpret them? And why you have reached your conclusions?

 OR as you say: "Put up or shut  up"!#5





#12
sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,171
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
If any way of thinking or belief system  that contradicts itself,  that way of thinking or belief system is null and void. So with that said there is nothing left to think about or believe. There is no way of thinking or believing that doesn't contradict itself. None.
#13
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7
-->
@n8nrgim


.
n8nrgim,

YOUR INSIDIOUS QUOTE OF "INTERPRETATION" OF THE BIBLE: "my position is also that it looks like there are a few contradictions and errors, but it depends on how you interpret the bible."

In the following passages, of which there are MANY CONTRADICTIONS within the scriptures where I have lost count, and like you wanted, here are six blatant contradictions that are LITERAL with absolutely NO INTERPRETATIONS needed, do you understand this simple premise? Yes?


CAN YOU SEE GOD? NO!
"No one has ever seen God." (1 John 4:12).

"No man has seen or can see God" (1 Timothy 6:16).

"But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live.” (Exodus 33:20)


CAN YOU SEE GOD? YES!
Since Jesus is God, then when he walked the earth, MANY people physically SAW God as the following passages so state:

 "Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ," (Titus 2:13)

"Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.” Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:27-28)

"Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:" (2 Peter 1:1)


N8nrgim, now, we expect you to follow through with your initial post about there being no contradictions within the Bible, therefore, explain why my examples shown above ARE NOT contradictions. EITHER PUT UP, OR SHUT UP IN TOTAL EMBARRASSMENT AGAIN!

BEGIN:  

.



#14
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7
-->
@Stephen


.
Stehen,
Once again, why do the moderators allow n8nrgim to post within this prestigious Religion Forum, where the both of us have Bible Slapped him Silly®️ many times over?  Do you actually think that n8nrgim likes to be shown to continually be the Bible Fool by running away from his own topic like he did with your post #8, where you gave him contradictions, but yet, he can't BLATANTLY explain them away like he said he would do, other than to give his weak subjective convenient interpretations for the "alleged" true outcome? LOL!

What did we expect from a pseudo-christian like n8nrgim that has NO BIOGRAPHY whatsoever because he is too embarrassed about himself to give one? LOL!

.
#15
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@BrotherD.Thomas
n8nrgim likes to be shown to continually be the Bible Fool by running away from his own topic like he did with your post #8, where you gave him contradictions, but yet, he can't BLATANTLY explain them away like he said he would do,

Brother, it is exactly what I had to explain to the bible dunce Rieka in the link below where I had to point out the hypocrisy of another bible dunce YouFound_Lxam , where Rieka accused me of "creating problems" . I said  in reply:

 Stephen wrote:  "It appears to me that the problems lie with those that claim things such as ' there is a lot of evidence to support the resurrection'  #28  and then do not provide the evidence that they claim exists when asked".



n8nrgim, it appears, Brother D, seems to have fallen at the first fence too, as predicted.

And you beat me to it with this one Brother D.
I was hoping that he was going to also explain this blinding biblical contradiction, also from John's gospel:

"No man hath seen God at any time."1 John 4:12

Adam seen God face to face and spoke often with him in the garden.
Moses seen god and spoke with god face to face "as one would with a friend.
Eve seen god and spoke to him face to face in the garden.
Jacob also seen god and "wrestled physically wrestled with him".
Elijah also seen god face to face.



What did we expect from a pseudo-christian like n8nrgim that has NO BIOGRAPHY whatsoever because he is too embarrassed about himself to give one? LOL!

  Well to be honest, I did expect a little more that what I got and I shouldn't have.

#16
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7
-->
@Stephen
@n8nrgim


.
Stephen,

Why do you think it is taking  n8nrgim  THREE DAYS to address your post #11, and my post #13?!  Do you think that he is frantically going through his Satanic and ungodly Apologetic  Books to come up with a direct answer to said posts so as not to be made the BIBLE STUPID FOOL AGAIN in front of the membership?

It is truly sad to see pseudo-christians like the Bible Stupid n8nrgim always thinking that they know the scriptures, when they do not at their embarrassing expense.

NEXT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN LIKE "N8NRGIM" THAT WILL RUN AWAY FROM BIBLICAL AXIOMS RELATIVE TO HIS THREADS TOPIC, WILL BE ...? 

.
#17
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@BrotherD.Thomas
Stephen,

Why do you think it is taking  n8nrgim  THREE DAYS to address your post #11, and my post #13?!  Do you think that he is frantically going through his Satanic and ungodly Apologetic  Books to come up with a direct answer to said posts so as not to be made the BIBLE STUPID FOOL AGAIN in front of the membership?

I don't know Brother D.  I doubt he's read any theological works and that includes the bible. My guess he is trawling the internet with other members of his faith in the hope of finding something -  anything, that will save his embarrassment.

It is as I said and predicted here in this exchange I had with him, Brother D.: 

06.17.2023
n8nrgim wrote: can you prove otherwise? usually when this topic comes up, atheists just spam a bunch of alleged contradictions, but they all depend on how you interpret them. they let the debate get lost in the weeds,
06.17.2023
Stephen wrote: And when Christians are given the chance to offer what they believe to be the correct "interpretation" and or context, they fall at the first fence.
That ^^^ was 18 days ago.
It amazes me that they throw down these challenges and then throw in the towel at the first obstacle if they can't bullshit and or blatantly lie their way out of it. 


And he had the fkn audacity to say this to me!:

n8nrgim wrote: i asked for three examples that someone is willing to defend to be clear contradictions. you are the one dancing around the topic. either put up, or shut up. 

😮

#18
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7
-->
@Stephen
@n8nrgim

.
Stephen,

Uh, have you seen n8nrgim HIDING in other DEBATEART Forums because he can't address my post #13 and your post #11?  Since this is n8nrgim's thread, he was "trying" to address other posts to him in at timely manner, but fails to do so with our posts in question that have literally shut the door in his "interpretation" scenario of the Bible not having any contradictions.

Well, we'll just keep bumping this thread to the top in the hopes that it will finally trigger n8nrgim to finally come out of hiding to at least "try" to address our posts.

.