Atheist to atheist

Author: keithprosser

Posts

Total: 77
#31
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@FaustianJustice
Morality to us Orthodox is about what brings us closer to God.


That being the case, it is likely very alien to what you think of when you think of morality.


If God is The Truth, what is moral in the Orthodox sense? Illuminating the Nous. Purifying the heart. 





#32
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@Mopac
Morality is platitudes. Well done you.
#33
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@keithprosser
We are atheists because we recognise and live in reality, we have no boogyman to save us from a fantasy life, if we don't do something to save this planet then our descendants are doomed. Reality is what motivates us not fairy tales.
#34
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@disgusted
We Orthodox practice an acetic lifestyle and fast more than half the year. I myself don't eat meat or use animal products. I recycle more than I throw away by a considerable magnitude.


I think we are doing our part for the environment.



Atheists have no good reason to not live a bestial life of enslavement to lust and swine like indulgence.

Atheists are deluded. They think they have no gods when a simple observation of their habits and motivations reveal that they in fact have many gods.

Atheists are a myth. There are only pagans in denial.


#35
FaustianJustice
FaustianJustice's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 150
0
1
3
FaustianJustice's avatar
FaustianJustice
0
1
3
-->
@Mopac
You still aren't answering the question.  I asked for personal anecdote as to when your personal view of a situation mis-aligned with whatever it is you follow.

Does such a time exist after you started to follow it?
#36
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@FaustianJustice
I'm not sure I understand the question.

Have I ever been wrong? All the time.

Have I ever rebelled against something I didn't understand only to realize later that what I was rebelling against was the truth? Sure, you could say that was a good chunk of my education. Being haughty and having to learn things the hard way.

I do my best to follow God. 

Sure though, sometimes even posting here, I am not as charitable as maybe I should be, and I know it. I usually feel bad about it later, even though sometimes it is very satisfying to insult someone at the time of me falling short.
Topic's author
#37
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@Mopac
Atheists have no good reason to not live a bestial life of enslavement to lust and swine like indulgence.
What you mean is you can't think of a reason.   Is your experience of actual atheists that they live a life of bestial enslavement to lust and swine to indulgence?  If not then your theory - however logical and reasonable it may seem - must be wrong.

Most atheists - actually most people - are not inclined to much philophising.  A typical atheist cannot explain why he or she is not a rapacious beast because to them 'it's good to be nice' is too obvious to even arise. As I said, most people are not into philosophy! 

If one does like philosophising, superficial and simplistic thinking makes it look as if being a rapacious beast is 'logical'. As people aren't in general like that it needs explaining why not.

Theists explain it by invoing god - it's their answer to everything.   Atheists explain to by invoking evolution - it's our answer to everything!


#38
FaustianJustice
FaustianJustice's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 150
0
1
3
FaustianJustice's avatar
FaustianJustice
0
1
3
-->
@Mopac
You are still speaking in generalities, and I am beginning to suspect such is by design rather than miscommunication.  What did you consider moral before your chosen following that you now consider immoral because of your following.  What check to your behavior occurred specifically because of your following, and what actions do you have conflict with morally that you don't engage in because if your following?
#39
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@keithprosser
To be frank, I think most Americans live a life of bestial enslavement to lust, and this is based off of observation.

The people who are in this are blind to it though, they see it as normal.

Oh no, atheists have plenty of arbitrary reasons for doing anything. What I am saying is there is no consistent set reason to do anything because the standard is... as I pointed out, arbitrary. There is no consistent "atheist" way of doing things.

Atheists don't know what God is, and the ones that do are nihilists.



Topic's author
#40
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@Mopac
I agree that a lot of people live a life that does no good for them, other people or the planet.

But that is only a good reason to promote God as a useful fiction, not an argument that God exists.

You - like many theists - assume that because atheists reject god as the source of morality they reject morality itself; but that is not so, at least not for the vast majority of atheists (e.g. all the atheists I know!).

I don't know why atheists do not conform to your stereotype of rapacious bestiality.  The reason I'm not a rapacious beast is that I don't want to be.  I can explain that using biology an evolution, but I can't justify it logically.   I want there to be more peace and less suffering in the world, and if I am lazy about it I try not to add to it!  And it's not because I am borrow my morality from you theists - if you ask me, the only good parts of theistic religion are those bits that ignore the gods and emphasise charity and empathy towards other people.

James1:27 Religion ...  pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

i.e. Nothing to with god at all.


#41
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
When you say there is no immorality or evil including rape and child molestation you are not a good person. 
#42
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@FaustianJustice
What did I consider to be moral?

Whatever satisfied my own personal set of aesthetics of what good was, like anyone else who has a morality based on arbitrary standards. If you are wanting me to give you specific things that are good and bad, that isn't how we understand morality.

See, if I were to say, "such and such is bad", that wouldn't be true, because there is something else attached to it that makes it bad. In general, what is bad to the Orthodox is idolatry. To the atheist, idolatry is the norm and it isn't even acknowledged as being a thing. They would lack the discernment to even see idolatry.

After all, if you don't believe in gods, how can you see them?

#43
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@keithprosser
Woah, I'm not arguing for God's existence. See, the west had this scholastic movement in the church that lead to this kind of thing, but we Orthodox never fell for that sophistry.

God exists. There is nothing to argue or prove. If you deny God, you are either ignorant or crazy. We understand God as The Truth, so how can one be in doubt about this? It's not a sane position.

I never said that atheists were into bestiality or rape, I said, to rephrase that they have no good reason to not live like animals who are simply motivated by their desires.

You are not a rapist because you don't want to be. And that is my point. Arbitrariness is the standard of the atheist. It really comes down to personal whim.

#44
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Mopac
My position has and always has been that most people are atheists because they don't know any better.


Any better than what?
#45
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2

Your an atheist about my gods. Guess I can say the same about you. 

Who are your "gods"? Witch. And where do they come from and where do the y reside?. In your own time luvvy

#46
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@Stephen
Fuck you sexist pig. 
#47
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Stephen
God is literally, not figuratively, The Ultimate Reality.
That is what God means.


What atheist accepts this?

Well, by not accepting this, they are not actually disputing God, but a strawman or really, a false idol god.

Oh, you don't believe in that god? Neither do I. I only recognize The Ultimate Reality as God. You say this God doesn't exist? Well, I can't help but think that makes little sense.


#48
FaustianJustice
FaustianJustice's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 150
0
1
3
FaustianJustice's avatar
FaustianJustice
0
1
3
-->
@Mopac
I am literally asking you what specific checks to your behavior occurred because of your following, and 4 times now you have deflected.

I suspect the answer you are desperately trying to evade from rendering is that either nothing changed, or nothing you could directly attribute to your personal and special revelation.


#49
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@FaustianJustice
I don't care about your evil suspicions. 

None of your business.
How is that for an answer?

You are not my confessor.

I certainly tried to give you informative answers.


#50
Goldtop
Goldtop's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,706
2
2
2
Goldtop's avatar
Goldtop
2
2
2
-->
@Mopac
I don't care about your evil suspicions. 

None of your business.
How is that for an answer?

And Faustian brings down another poser. Lol.
Topic's author
#51
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
I never said that atheists were into bestiality or rape, I said, to rephrase that they have no good reason to not live like animals who are simply motivated by their desires.

You are not a rapist because you don't want to be. And that is my point. Arbitrariness is the standard of the atheist. It really comes down to personal whim.

So why aren't you a rapist?

I haven't noticed any lack of sexual depravity in believers.

You, mopac, are not a rapist because you don't want to be. 

I don't believe you need a bible or a church to tell you that rape or stealing is wrong - even if you think you do need them.   If you are normal you will have sexual fantasies but not actually do anything.  You have been trained to feel shame for such feelings and to thank god or the church for blocking you from doing anything worse.

I say no, that's superstition.  We are humans with conficting urges that mean we are neither angels or devils - we are just people.  A few of us are very bad, a few of us are very good.   But most of us are us are somewhere in between. 

As you point out and  i agree with, atheism does not provide any reason to lead a good life.  To unphilosophial atheists that matters not -the vast majority go through life not questioning 'it is good to be good'.  



#52
FaustianJustice
FaustianJustice's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 150
0
1
3
FaustianJustice's avatar
FaustianJustice
0
1
3
-->
@Mopac
Non-sequiturs can be informative even if they don't answer the question posed.

"None of your business" is a great answer as it adequately highlights the thrust of my suspicion, while eroding credibility of your assertions.  More to wit: it either shows you a monster before said special revelation or lends to said revelation being more of a double down on your own self confessed arbitrary convictions.

Have a magical day.


#53
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@keithprosser
You don't really know me or my faith.

At least one of these things I am here to help educate people about.


Shame is a Roman Catholic thing. We Orthodox don't see church as a courthouse, but a hospital. It is a very different mentality.

There is nothing about atheism to be educated about. It isn't a system of beliefs. It is a belief at most and a lack of belief at least. 

And to question the existence of, or even to outright deny The Ultimate Reality is not a position that deserves to be taken seriously. It really deserves mockery. It is an idiotic position.

And rather than call the atheist stupid, I say they are fundamentally misinformed about God. My God is The Truth. Are you going to say it is true that there is no truth? Are you going to say it is reality that there is no reality? I would hope not. What atheist does? A real atheist. A nihilist. So lets be clear that atheism is a position based on superstition, not belief in God.




#54
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@FaustianJustice
Well, if you think you have it all figured out...


..believe what you want to believe.


It is at least plain to me that you are not exercising righteous judgement. 
Topic's author
#55
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@Mopac
You'd be well advised to re-examine the whole 'god is the ultimate reality' gig.

Absolutely no one doubts the existence of reality or truth.  The problem is that you equate it with god.  that is you don't merely assert that god has a close relationship with it - such as, say, God being the guarator of truth or the sustainer of reality.   You assert that god is identical with truth or reality. 

You are, i suggest, confused between figurative and literal meaning.  
#56
FaustianJustice
FaustianJustice's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 150
0
1
3
FaustianJustice's avatar
FaustianJustice
0
1
3
-->
@Mopac
I agree.

Its 'logical reasoning'.

#57
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@Mopac
Atheists have no good reason to not live a bestial life of enslavement to lust and swine like indulgence.
I have the best reason, it's called reality and humanity. You on the other don't live a bestial life because you are afraid of punishment. Who is the better human?
Atheists are deluded. They think they have no gods when a simple observation of their habits and motivations reveal that they in fact have many gods.
Please name some of my gods, we all need a good belly laugh.
Atheists are a myth. There are only pagans in denial.
You, of course, can't support these lies but lying is the natural state for godists.

#58
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@Mopac
Before merriam webster published that particular definition your god did not exist, aren't you lucky that a majority of lexicographers decided to publish that definition instead of the thousands of others available to them. In what year was your god brought into existence by merriam webster?
#59
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@Mopac
Atheists don't know what God is
I do. It's the product of human imagination.

#60
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@Mopac
based on superstition, not belief in God.



Belief in god is superstition.