Sex imbalances in hours contributed to the household

Author: Kaitlyn

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Kaitlyn
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For various reasons, at least in the United States, men work more than women. This is true for various household set-ups. FtpheDCaYAAbi4m (640×480) (twimg.com) (taken from: The Myth of the ‘Lazy’ Father | Institute for Family Studies (ifstudies.org) ). You could argue that's unfair for men, you could argue that men are choosing to enter this arrangement voluntarily, but in any case it's what is happening.

However, the last bar caught my eye -- it was the worst gap in terms of sex inequality between men and women. When women were the sole income earners, men were working far less than anyone else in any other set-up FtnnW0lX0CYpD2Z (984×965) (twimg.com) . I'm by no means a Feminist, but this certainly appears to be an instance of genuine equality that women face. Not only are these breadwinner women working at a job infinitely more than men, but they're getting about half the leisure time these men do, too. Albeit, caregiving and housework were roughly equal, which is strange because stay-at-home mothers found ways to do far more "work" in general (see first graph), hence the smaller gap between breadwinner men and stay-at-home mothers.

So, the point of this thread is to ask this: why is this happening? Why are stay-at-home dads working considerably less than breadwinner mothers, relative to all the other possible set-ups?
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It's honestly because stay at home moms are that way out of a sense of nobility and stay at home dads are in general lazy pieces of shit. 
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@PREZ-HILTON
It's honestly because stay at home moms are that way out of a sense of nobility and stay at home dads are in general lazy pieces of shit. 
It's certainly plausible that this is the case, but how do you know this?
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I would presume that where men are stay-at-home dads, women are earning an inordinate amount of money. Really uninteresting question. 
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Anyone who says "both parents should be working" is an idiot.

If both parents work, then who raises kids? Babysitter? Yeah, great thinking, really.

Honestly, the stupidity of today's people is beyond belief. Thats why this society cant survive.
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@Kaitlyn
For one your data bares it out. We also know that your typical stay at home dad is a guy that thinks jobs are beneath him. "I have a PHD, I can't accept a factory job" so you have real long gaps of unemployment for people unwilling to just do whatever the fuck it takes to feed their children. I am a man, if I have to rob a bank to get my kid fed, it's going to happen.

The other type is some lazy guy unwilling to work, less qualified than the above but same general reasoning. 

I will tell you there are exceptions though. The woman who is working 2 jobs to put her man through medical school. That's her supporting her man and it means she can retire in 8 years and live a nice lifestyle. 

I also personally had a situation where I quit a job on impulse and when I did the fiance immediately pulled the kid out of daycare and she worked a 9-5. 

I went from making 75k to nothing and her pulling him out of daycare meant I could only find jobs that I could work at night. It limited me to part time low paying work. 

I did get fed up with it after about 3 months and told her I wasn't letting her limit my income potential because she was an idiot and I got a better job and then told her to figure it out. She had to take an Leave of absence which pissed her off and get the kid back in daycare. 

After that I explained to her that my income potential is significantly higher than hers and if she ever pulls that shit again it won't be pretty. 

So there are exceptions to the stay at home dad generalizations, but even those exceptions are a bad ideal to get yourself into.

Here is one exception

A woman asks her man to quit his job and take care of the kids so they can move to a new area and she can accept the new job offer for 6 figures. The man does this.

What happens is she'll lose respect for him because he doesn't make as much as her (income of partner is a trait only women care about). She'll start treating him like shit and then she will cheat or leave him for another man. That stay at home dad did what was right for his family but was naive and now has likely permanently damaged his income potential. 

Either they aren't the bread winners because they are lazy bitches or they aren't the bread winners in the relationship because they are henpecked, and emasculated losers. It isn't their fault but they need to correct the situation.
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@badger
I would presume that where men are stay-at-home dads, women are earning an inordinate amount of money.

How are felons treated in the job market in Ireland?

I know with a few exceptions here there is a question about criminal history even on Walmart or gas station applications and mandatory background checks. 

It takes like one $1000 theft of a rare baseball card at 18 or bringing a bunch of weed to a party to make a  person unemployable for the entire remainder of their lives. 

It also should be noted that daycare is about $500 a week here and that is almost exactly the income you will get from a low paying job, canceling your entire paycheck. You almost have to eat out if you are working long shifts which even if you are eating cheap is $20 a day. So to work 7 days costs you $640 round up to $700 for gas. 

Let's say you make $10 an hour at a low pay job you make $400 a week. Some people can't afford to pay an extra $300 a week to work
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@PREZ-HILTON
How are felons treated in the job market in Ireland?

Unless you're working with kids no background checks at all. Fairly extensive where you are working with kids though.

It also should be noted that daycare is about $500 a week here and that is almost exactly the income you will get from a low paying job, canceling your entire paycheck
Costs a fortune here as well. I work with Indians seem to rotate grandparents in and out of the country to take care of their kids. 
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Due to inflation and labor shortages you should probably be looking for $15 at minimum in todays market, and that's if you live in a place with such a low cost of living. 

A lot of places are dealing with the softest generation in American history.  It's not that hard for an able bodied man to compete with.  Just stop starting fights, don't lie, and work on your handshake.  Part of working on your handshake is working on yourself, maybe some forgiveness.  If you picked a good wife she'll make breakfast and nudge you to get up on Sunday mornings.  It's complicated with a family, but there is the option to move if you have to. 
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@Kaitlyn
It's perhaps a lot to do with how we naturally relate to innate instruction.

The old bread winner thing was simply an extension of the male role

And the house wife was an extension of the mothering role.

Extended by intellectual assessment.

Though the natural male role would have been short bursts of effort with extended periods of rest, so not naturally conducive to long periods of breadwinning.

Whereas the natural mothering role was lengthy periods of physical commitment, resting mostly during familial sleep events.

So the natural female role is conducive to the modern breadwinning role in relation to modern family values and breeding patterns.

So perhaps under the guise of feminism and equality etc, we are actually just continuing to mirror base instinct.





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I would presume that where men are stay-at-home dads, women are earning an inordinate amount of money. Really uninteresting question. 
This might be the case for some families, but there is nothing to suggest it is the case for all. It's entirely possible that the family is just scraping by, yet the husband refuses to do much work to help out. Dead-beat dads/husbands are certainly real.

This also doesn't address many of the questions I raised in the OP:

- Why are stay-at-home dads working considerably less than breadwinner mothers, relative to all the other possible set-ups? To be clear, when I say "working", I don't just mean going to a job but also work involving the house (e.g. gardening, cleaning etc.)

- Are the women in these arrangements okay with this?

- Are men okay with working more than women in every other set-up?

There are plenty of questions raised that have interesting nuance. If you want to consider that "really uninteresting", then you're entitled to your opinion.
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@PREZ-HILTON
It's honestly because stay at home moms are that way out of a sense of nobility and stay at home dads are in general lazy pieces of shit. 
It's certainly plausible that this is the case, but how do you know this?
For one your data bares it out.
You could inductively make this conclusion, but not deductively.

For example, an alternative, inductive explanation is that men are far more efficient at being the stay-at-home supports to breadwinners.

We also know that your typical stay at home dad is a guy that thinks jobs are beneath him. "I have a PHD, I can't accept a factory job" so you have real long gaps of unemployment for people unwilling to just do whatever the fuck it takes to feed their children. I am a man, if I have to rob a bank to get my kid fed, it's going to happen.
I don't see how you know this either, at least from the data.

The other type is some lazy guy unwilling to work, less qualified than the above but same general reasoning. 

I will tell you there are exceptions though. The woman who is working 2 jobs to put her man through medical school. That's her supporting her man and it means she can retire in 8 years and live a nice lifestyle. 
Sure, these set ups can happen.

I also personally had a situation where I quit a job on impulse and when[...]
So, you're getting your arguments from personal experience?

A woman asks her man to quit his job and take care of the kids so they can move to a new area and she can accept the new job offer for 6 figures. The man does this.

What happens is she'll lose respect for him because he doesn't make as much as her (income of partner is a trait only women care about). She'll start treating him like shit and then she will cheat or leave him for another man. That stay at home dad did what was right for his family but was naive and now has likely permanently damaged his income potential. 

Either they aren't the bread winners because they are lazy bitches or they aren't the bread winners in the relationship because they are henpecked, and emasculated losers. It isn't their fault but they need to correct the situation.
Is it possible to have a trophy husband? You know, some pretty boy that doesn't do much but is gorgeous? 

Also, I don't understand why a woman would be with a guy that they can henpeck into not working a job. It seems to be that you agree the usual case is women select for men with greater status/wealth than they have themselves. So, what would be the point in henpecking a guy into not working, when a part of his attraction is generated through his ability to work?
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@Best.Korea
Anyone who says "both parents should be working" is an idiot.

If both parents work, then who raises kids? Babysitter? Yeah, great thinking, really.

Honestly, the stupidity of today's people is beyond belief. Thats why this society cant survive.
Yes, although there is another side to this.

It's true that if both parents are working, someone else will need to take care of the kids. School does part of that job, but not all of it.

I think both parents seem to need to work nowadays (in many Western countries) because all prices have an expectation built into them that *both* parents are working. There is roughly twice the amount of disposable income available, hence, for example, a house costs twice as much. No one is getting ahead by having the husband and wife working because *everyone* is working.

So, not only do we have the disadvantage of no one being home to take care of the children, but none of these families are getting ahead by working more.

The big benefits I can see from both parents working, at least macroeconomically, is that there are many people doing many more jobs, and also that women are now able to self-actualize via a job. Albeit, a lot of those jobs are not jobs that contribute in a real way to the economy (not every manager is needed), and women tend to gravitate to these jobs. Also, I'm not sure every woman wants to self-actualize through her job, and data from 2015 indicated mothers prefer to stay-at-home, if given the option Children a Key Factor in Women's Desire to Work Outside the Home (gallup.com) 

The overall effect of all this is that childless women and fewer women get to self-actualize at work, and also we have some more useful workers in the economy, all at the expense of everyone having to work and children seeing their parents far less than they did 100+ years ago. I don't think that's a great deal.
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This might be the case for some families, but there is nothing to suggest it is the case for all.

And nothing to suggest it isn't. 

This also doesn't address many of the questions I raised in the OP:

- Why are stay-at-home dads working considerably less than breadwinner mothers, relative to all the other possible set-ups? To be clear, when I say "working", I don't just mean going to a job but also work involving the house (e.g. gardening, cleaning etc.)

- Are the women in these arrangements okay with this?

- Are men okay with working more than women in every other set-up?

There are plenty of questions raised that have interesting nuance. If you want to consider that "really uninteresting", then you're entitled to your opinion.

Actually it answers every single one of those questions. Money buys leisure time.
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This might be the case for some families, but there is nothing to suggest it is the case for all.

And nothing to suggest it isn't. 
The way burden of proof works is that a claim requires proof before it is believed. Otherwise, you believe things without proof.

Furthermore, you can enter the realm of the negative proof fallacy, in which the person hearing the claim is required to disprove the statement. That's dangerous territory to enter because it's far easier and quicker to make claims than it is to disprove them.

So, for the above reasons, I don't find your counter-argument convincing in the slightest.

This also doesn't address many of the questions I raised in the OP:

- Why are stay-at-home dads working considerably less than breadwinner mothers, relative to all the other possible set-ups? To be clear, when I say "working", I don't just mean going to a job but also work involving the house (e.g. gardening, cleaning etc.)

- Are the women in these arrangements okay with this?

- Are men okay with working more than women in every other set-up?

There are plenty of questions raised that have interesting nuance. If you want to consider that "really uninteresting", then you're entitled to your opinion.

Actually it answers every single one of those questions. Money buys leisure time.
It doesn't. Let's look:

(Question) "Are the women in these arrangements okay with this?" (Answer) "Money buys leisure time." --- that doesn't make sense.

(Question) "Are men okay with working more than women in every other set-up?" (Answer) "Money buys leisure time." --- that doesn't make sense.
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(Question) "Are the women in these arrangements okay with this?" (Answer) "Money buys leisure time." --- that doesn't make sense.
Actually the question doesn't make sense. It's a data point with zero context. You expect me to answer if the women are okay with the arrangement knowing nothing of the particulars of the arrangement besides what you have presented?

(Question) "Are men okay with working more than women in every other set-up?" (Answer) "Money buys leisure time." --- that doesn't make sense.

No, I'm mortally offended by these charts you've presented. You've found an outlier and made a thread on it, but have done nothing to explain it. All I'm left with is to get offended at bar charts.

I expect it takes a higher threshold of earning for men to allow women to be sole breadwinner. That's more or less uninteresting. 
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Actually it answers every single one of those questions. Money buys leisure time.
(Question) "Are the women in these arrangements okay with this?" (Answer) "Money buys leisure time." --- that doesn't make sense.
Actually the question doesn't make sense.
The how did you answer a question you thought didn't make sense?

*thinking emoji*

It's a data point with zero context. You expect me to answer if the women are okay with the arrangement knowing nothing of the particulars of the arrangement besides what you have presented?
The data point is part of the context. The extrapolation on the data point is insufficient to reach a deductive conclusion; nonetheless, the data raises the question. That's why the question is interesting: it's currently unanswered by the data I presented, but it's worth knowing the answer.

(Question) "Are men okay with working more than women in every other set-up?" (Answer) "Money buys leisure time." --- that doesn't make sense.
No, I'm mortally offended by these charts you've presented. You've found an outlier and made a thread on it, but have done nothing to explain it. All I'm left with is to get offended at bar charts.
I *can't* explain it with the data I have. That's why I'm asking the questions, you dingus.

I expect it takes a higher threshold of earning for men to allow women to be sole breadwinner. That's more or less uninteresting. 
You're just guessing. Anyone can do that. Anyone can come up with anything doing that.

Talk about uninteresting.
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@zedvictor4
So the natural female role is conducive to the modern breadwinning role in relation to modern family values and breeding patterns.

So perhaps under the guise of feminism and equality etc, we are actually just continuing to mirror base instinct.
The issue with women being the breadwinner, even if it lines-up with their workstyle better than men's (certainly an interesting thought of yours), is that the increased income/social status derived starts to make them self-destruct: they expect men to make more/higher social status Better-Educated Women Still Prefer Higher-Earning Husbands | Institute for Family Studies (ifstudies.org) 

Why do women have this preference for richer men if women have a base instinct to be modern breadwinners? 
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The how did you answer a question you thought didn't make sense?

*thinking emoji*

Juvenile.

The data point is part of the context. The extrapolation on the data point is insufficient to reach a deductive conclusion; nonetheless, the data raises the question. That's why the question is interesting: it's currently unanswered by the data I presented, but it's worth knowing the answer.

And how am I supposed to answer it?

I *can't* explain it with the data I have. That's why I'm asking the questions, you dingus.

So it's a dumb thread. 

You're just guessing. Anyone can do that. Anyone can come up with anything doing that.

Talk about uninteresting.
What else were you possible expecting? Yes, talk about uninteresting. 
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@Kaitlyn
The richer man represents the Alpha-Male.
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The how did you answer a question you thought didn't make sense?

*thinking emoji*

Juvenile.
Do you understand how massive a contradiction your arguments were?

Actually, you clearly don't.

The data point is part of the context. The extrapolation on the data point is insufficient to reach a deductive conclusion; nonetheless, the data raises the question. That's why the question is interesting: it's currently unanswered by the data I presented, but it's worth knowing the answer.
And how am I supposed to answer it?
Based on other data you've found? Polling results?

I'm asking because I don't know myself.

I *can't* explain it with the data I have. That's why I'm asking the questions, you dingus.
So it's a dumb thread. 
Why have you turned into such an obnoxious brat?

If you can't be bothered to engage in deeper questions that don't have immediate answers, go back to your underachieving, f*ckboy degenerate lifetstyle and leave us people who want to learn and grow alone.

You're just guessing. Anyone can do that. Anyone can come up with anything doing that.

Talk about uninteresting.
What else were you possible expecting? Yes, talk about uninteresting. 
I wasn't expecting anything better from you, to be honest.

Do better or get lost.
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@zedvictor4
The richer man represents the Alpha-Male.
I don't think wealth is sufficient to attract a mate.

Besides, both men and women are primarily attracted to looks first.

As horrible as it sounds, I don't think there is sufficient wealth for a 5'0, balding, recessed chin manlet to ever be considered the alpha-male (if that is a valid term for humans).
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Based on other data you've found? Polling results?

I'm asking because I don't know myself.
You're asking a question about women in poll, the particulars of whose circumstances we know nothing. 

Repeat poll the women. All the rest of us can do is guess. I provided my guess.

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Based on other data you've found? Polling results?

I'm asking because I don't know myself.
You're asking a question about women in poll, the particulars of whose circumstances we know nothing. 

Repeat poll the women. All the rest of us can do is guess. I provided my guess.
You might have access to data that I don't know, which could break down the categories and help to elucidate the situation.

I don't know what you know until I ask.

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Oh in that case I actually have the sister poll of this poll where the particulars of these women's circumstances are probed into. Let me dig that out for you. 
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Oh in that case I actually have the sister poll of this poll where the particulars of these women's circumstances are probed into. Let me dig that out for you. 
The only kind of sister you have is the one you "poll" regularly in your drunken Irish confusion.

Sorry, your "Italian girlfriend".

Didn't mean to tell the truth there.
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Still beats providing girlfriend experience for incels on the internet. There's a reality in there for one of us.
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Still beats providing girlfriend experience for incels on the internet. There's a reality in there for one of us.
Yes, you are an expert on beatings, hence your criminal record.

I suspect your "Italian girlfriend" will soon become an expert in beatings, too, but she'll get there in a different way.
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If I'm honest, I miss it. Office jobs and holidays these days, but I do have that "A History of Violence" daydream playing on repeat. 

I love my girlfriend very much though. She's a sweetheart. 
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I love my girlfriend very much though. She's a sweetheart. 
You love her so much you'll turn your sweetheart into a bleedheart.

You are criminally underrated.