South Korea - What Happens When You Replace Family Values With Consumerism And Immorality?

Author: Best.Korea

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#1
Best.Korea
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South Korea broke its own record regarding lowest birth rates in the world.

0.78 births per woman.

Its like promoting immorality and consumerism didnt exactly pay off for South Korea.

Even North Korea has 1.82 birth rates.

Of course, there are disagreements about why the birth rates are falling everywhere, but South Korea is the world leader and undisputed champion with so low birth rates that its population will shrink in half in 50 years.


TFR is falling everywhere. No advanced country except Israel seems able to sustain a pro-natal culture. A lowering tide is lowering almost all boats and giving rise to reasonable (and some unreasonable) suspicions that something is poisoning us—perhaps the Covid vaccines. Or perhaps the problem is a lowering of testosterone and sperm counts, traceable to plastics or seed oils.
The truth is that honor matters, far more than any chemical in our environment and far more than any set of financial incentives. In South ­Korea, a propaganda campaign effected a great shift away from family life. In most countries in the West, the campaign has been less coordinated, but perhaps even more effective for being spontaneous and pervasive. We will not restore children to the center of our society’s ideal of a life well lived until we reverse our cultural messaging—not just about children, but about the entire range of issues that touch upon what it means to be man and woman. The image of woman with motherhood near the center of her life is vital for our future, if we want to have one.
#2
Kaitlyn
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@Best.Korea
I'm not sure this a problem specific to South Korea, and isn't just a human problem that occurs when most people become materially comfortable. As your article stated, a lot of other countries, particularly Asian ones, are struggling to get even close to replacement birthrates. Perhaps South Korea's promotion of "immorality and consumerism" is tossing gas onto the fire, but I don't know South Korea well enough to comment on that (I know vaguely that kids are overstudied, and adults are overworked and consume massive amounts of alcohol).

What I can say is that a lot of 'Western' countries are struggling to keep or approach replacement birthrates. Contrarily, a lot of the least developed countries (that are located in Western and Central Africa), are easily producing enough children for replacement. So, we can see a clear line that runs from least developed countries having higher birth rates, to the most developed countries having lower birth rates List of sovereign states and dependencies by total fertility rate - Wikipedia . So, in this regard, South Korea is suffering from being too affluent. 

Something else that may be influencing the low fertility rate is the advent of the global dating market (i.e. dating apps). Asian men are not particularly desirable on the global market (geeky stereotype, smaller penises, smaller average height etc.), whereas Asian women can be highly valued overseas Asian guys stereotyped and excluded in online dating (theconversation.com) . This may invite South Korean women to date outside of their race, thereby often moving to other countries, and thus lowering South Korea's birthrate (because the women wanting kids aren't having them in South Korea).

I know also that conservatives outbreed liberals in America, but I don't know if this would transfer over to conservatives and liberals in South Korea (or their political equivalents), so a liberalization of South Korea may or may not have anything to do with it.

So, what's the solution?

A lot of countries simply import higher fertility (read: 3rd world) people to do the breeding, but then you end up with 3rd world genetics, so you're only finding another way to kill the country.

I remember Richard Lynn suggested paying women (particularly well-educated and intelligent women) to have children, and that's currently been attempted (at least in part) by Hungary (massive tax incentives to anyone who has 4 or more children). 'Baby machines': eastern Europe's answer to depopulation | Population | The Guardian . Note that Hungary is specifically wanting Hungarian children because, in their own words, "Migration for us is surrender". Hungary has been somewhat successful with its approach, but certainly hasn't risen above replacement rates, which is the problem no developed country seems to be able to solve Hungary’s birth rate highest in nearly three decades thanks to Viktor Orbán’s pro-family policies - LifeSite (lifesitenews.com) .

As far as I know, nothing else has been tried. Either countries are so backward that women just naturally have more children because half of them are dying young (most of Africa), countries import people who have higher fertility rates (a lot of Western countries), Hungary attempts to pay people to have children, or nothing is done (a lot of Asian countries).
#3
Intelligence_06
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@Best.Korea
In China, Japan and Korea, life has been on average so stressful that they don't want to bring more life because they would suffer in the same path they did. That is why the population growth decreased.
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@Kaitlyn
Asian men are not particularly desirable on the global market (geeky stereotype, smaller penises, smaller average height etc.)
I guess they should introduce forced marriages, because 2 incher is not exactly a winner in free competition.
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@Kaitlyn
Something laughable that China has done is that they attempt to subsidize second and 3rd children but not the first child. As an only child this is hilarious.

Though this is just a proposal from one of the party members. Some are like that(One of them even proposed fully legal prostitution, found out he was associated with a prostitution ring, I believe) Hopefully they disappear soon. But seriously, having this wide range of assorted opinions in one party really does the opposite of what others may think it does: Unlike that they control what we think, we don't know what to think anymore regarding certain topics because we don't know what is or isn't by a fake expert(until we realize who said it later), or if any expert on an issue qualifies as a non-nutjob at all. We just don't know.

Let me list another few laughably ridiculous opinions held by fake experts in China:
  • That the current generation(Millenials) don't want to work because house prices are too cheap(In reality, the prices are soaring and there are more houses than able to support everyone that exists here, although homelessness is still an ongoing issue possibly due to bastards like these)
  • That the current generation don't want to work because the salaries are too high, and college graduates should pay to work in general(WHAT?)
  • That singleness and childlessness after a certain age should be fined(WHAT?)
  • That the average Chinese adult should have at least 500,000 Yuan(WHAT?)
  • That the average Chinese adult should be able to rent out their cars and houses(Completely false)
The existence of whatever these are, along with consumerism and all that, disconnects family values with modern society to the point one questions if one could hold a family at all.


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#6
Best.Korea
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@Intelligence_06
In China, Japan and Korea, life has been on average so stressful
Well, in south Korea, yes, because they are an inferior Korea. Plus, they know if war breaks out, their country ceases to exist. Not exactly a big motivation to live. Plus, the mandatory military service? Yikes. If I had to serve in the military, I would lose the will to live.

China and Japan? I dont know much about japan's stress. I thought that Japan was a solid country living somewhat healthy lifestyle. I guess I was wrong about that.

I am not sure why would China be stressed tho. The covid had an effect, I understand, but doesnt China promote family values? Or are children becoming too expensive and undesirable there too?
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@Best.Korea
Or are children becoming too expensive and undesirable there too?
Well, yes. Thanks to those bullshitters subsidizing only 2nd and 3rd children, raising house prices and lowering salaries, that is what happens.

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@Intelligence_06
Subsidizing wont solve anything.
If I am payed 500$ for second child, but I have to pay 100,000$ in total for child expenses over 18 years, I am still not motivated to have children.

The problems today, everyone knows. Children are no longer humble and obedient. They want best toys, best phones, expensive computers, best clothes, later college and what not.

It just doesnt work anymore. One person can comfortably live with an average wage. However, average wage is quickly spent if you have 2 spoiled children.

Replacement rate is 2.1 children per woman. So couples need at least 2 children to maintain population.
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@Best.Korea
Exactly. We have voiced it but they won't listen. It is basically an appeal to authority fallacy except the authority can yell back at you when you say it is that even though it would make the problem worse.
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Its like promoting immorality and consumerism didnt exactly pay off for South Korea.
Inmorality has nothing to do with the subject. In fact, be too moral is the problem in South korea for the low birth rate, You are too much conservatives. As far as I know, being a single parent is frowned upon in the South korean society. If you were more flexible in that respect, single women could have children.

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@Best.Korea
It's probably all down to overthink, relative to material development.

Consumerism is undoubtedly a factor.

Immorality is a somewhat abstract concept though.

And why breed when you have a little screen in your hand which provides you with all the stimulation you require.
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@Best.Korea
Asian men are not particularly desirable on the global market (geeky stereotype, smaller penises, smaller average height etc.)
I guess they should introduce forced marriages, because 2 incher is not exactly a winner in free competition.
It's funny that you should mention this because the countries wherein men seem to be the least desirable on a global stage are the countries which, today, still engage in arranged marriages (and sometimes child marriages): South Asia, the Middle East, North Africa, Sub-Saharan Africa, and the Caucasus Arranged marriage - Wikipedia 


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I believe that in a post-industrial society it makes no sense to be interested in fertility.  This number of labor force is no longer needed. People are more urbanized, marginalized, so more individualists live in cities, no one wants to reproduce the genus.
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What can the country do for raise fertility?  Remove taxes from the poor.  Raise the consumer confidence index so that people have money.  Not useless transfers and subsidies.