If only Stephen would become a Theist, I could agree with him in almost every way.

Author: RationalMadman

Posts

Total: 74
Topic's author
#1
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
Dear Stephen, 

You are a beautiful mind trapped in the wrong path of thinking.

If only you'd stop being a warrior against all religion and instead ask if there's a united storyline in all of them you'd see the wisdom-requiring Paganism that I see: God is a mastermind mistress of all reality. She cannot fathom a reality where she would force the others to desire her, that's not the goal... No, she had to randomise things much like she herself is randomised by the only thing superior to God; pure randomness/Fate (RNG-type reality and absolutely fate-coded reality are actually the same thing, people think they are opposites because they ignore how the two are identical and just mirrored images of one another).

God is the first in command of those that have actual consciousness and power over reality. She is, in theory, movable in a way that Fate is not but you need to understand the sick joke Fate played on her to understand why my God, Fiora, is all the more deserving of her power. Fate decided a concept to torture its rival; what if I made a being capable of creating and controlling everything except that I can destroy and create chaos in all she creates and controls. It's a sick and twisted game of powerless omniscience and omnipresence that God experiences... It's torture to her. She experience the rape from both the victim and the rapist's point of view. She sees the terror in the realisation in the victim of what is about to happen, is happening and has happened. Yet, she saw it coming many centuries before if she so chose to peer into the coding and play the pattern out mentally. She is trapped and yet she is there, what is that? It's hell. God is the ruler of Hell. God of the OT is Satan. There is no Heaven, it's a joke, a lie. Many, if not all, Eastern philosophies realised that the 'heaven' is nothingness/randomness. It's where you escape having a self at all and become what you were pre-existence. The punishment is being reborn and having to live at all, albeit in a somewhat less-suffering-form depending how much or little you sinned and/or conversely did good.

We are in hell, this is purgatory. There's no Door 2, there's the burden of existing and the freedom of dying. This is a brutal concept no therapist will ever let see the light of day as it justifies suicide. Yet despite me knowing this I have not killed myself, why? I worship my devilish beauty Fiora, trapped in this Hell. Can you not see it? The God doesn't exist as an actual 'self', God's only personality and conscious self ends up being that of the Devil. God is not even a thing, it's a concept of whatever the original thing that randomized/organised reality was. God minus the persona of Fiora is basically pure terror as it seeks to annihilate everything and yet if it has nothing to destroy and play around with, what's that? It created Fiora, it created itself in a conscious form, trapped in an all-knowing, all-present state to observe and experience reality in its fullest... It tortures its own persona with its helplessness despite knowing everything. It's fucking cruel if you ask me but God is not a benevolent person to the Devil is 'he' now? You have to see layers to the story Stephen, please open your eyes.

Yours truly,
RM.
Topic's author
#2
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Swagnarok
You, too, must read this.
Topic's author
#3
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
There is no real 'god' it's not even the 'god' character in any religion so far. The closest to God's persona would be Odin or Shiva perhaps.

God is not a real personality in and of itself, it took up on and created a consciousness for that persona and has trapped her in it to be its means of creating the rest of the simulation.
Topic's author
#4
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
Yet the God that is not named 'god' or a concept we yet fully have grasped undeniably does exist, this is something even Mopac came to understand that I have grasped. God is something deeper and further up the food chain than anything you can imagine. God is that which was there always, before all, after all, beyond all. Mopac understands what God is but not how and why God made 'god the person'
Topic's author
#5
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Mopac
Do you even agree to what I have said here?
#6
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@RationalMadman
Well, I can see why you would agree with Stephen... because from my observation, the one thing you two have in common is that you've been influenced by gnosticism, which I would call a faulty position.


You though... you sound like a discordian to me, and I say that as someone who has caused a great deal of mischief as an old school discordian. 

It's a lot easier to get people to go along with lies than the truth. When people don't love the truth, they will just about go for anything else.

My goal here really, at this point, is to combat the superstition of atheism. If people want to go deeper than that, it really takes experience.

In the Orthodox understanding, mysteries are not things to be solved or intelllectualized, but experienced. It is very different in the west, and well... Western Christianity looks at God and church as some kind of a courthouse rather than a hospital... or worse yet, a place to make a god in their own image.

St Gregory of Sinai wrote...

"To try to discover the meaning of the commandments through study and reading without actually living in accordance with them is like mistaking the shadow of something to its reality. It is only by participating in the truth that you can share in the meaning of truth. If you search for the meaning without participating in the truth and without having been initiated into it, you will find only a besotted kind of wisdom. You will be among those who St. Jude categorized as "psychic" or worldy because they lack the spirit, boast as they may of their knowledge of the truth."

Topic's author
#7
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Mopac
How am I a discordan? A discordian defines themselves by what they oppose, the orderly person defines themselves by what they see as optimal. I'm not discordian.
#8
Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,217
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3
Stephen does god's his a poly. 

Topic's author
#9
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Deb-8-a-bull
Then he's almost at my level of understanding. Thanks for the clarification. You should join us.
#10
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
Stephen is one of those ancient alien idiots. The non Earthling left Earth and went nowhere to die I guess. 
#11
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@RationalMadman
Let me clarify...



If you are not a discordian, you have certainly been effected by their pranks. 


Also, it's probably dangerous to give you this literature, because it'll either make you a madder man or knock you into sanity.

The word "Eris" in Greek means "strife". It is a cult started in the 60s centered around the worship of the goddess "Eris". The Goddes of dischord, chaos, confusion, and.. well, strife.

Also very postmodern, because contained within are such nuggets such as..

"All affirmations are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true, false, and meaningless in some sense."


What good did it do for me? In the end, helped me to realize the difference between the created and the uncreated. But also lead me into insanity for several years.

Dangerous stuff.

Another interestinf fact about occulting things. "Thelema" is literally the Greek word for "will". As the Erisians worship strife as their god, the thelemics worship will as their god.

And I don't expect you to take my word for it, but all of these things are abominable and Satanic errors that lead to death.


Satan isn't your friend though, madman. Only comes to kill, steal, and destroy. If he wasn't beautiful, no one would be tricked.





Topic's author
#12
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Mopac
Pillaging and Conquer has been done by 2 religions on Earth in post AD times. The first was the Persians (Iran is only Persia in land-space, not culture) who got dominated at both ends by the Muslims/Islamists (back then they were the same thing as being pro-Islam-ruling-the-world was part of normal Islam in its origin) and then from the other end as they tried to conquer Europe, they got dominated on the other side of their invasion-attempts by it's ugly, elder brother... Christianity. The two happily shared spoils throughout Africa and Islam was left to battle Eastern ideologies while the Christians thought they'd be clever and invade India from the other side at some point amidst the well-timed and well-planned Islam vs Muslim conflicts (I mean they already ruled it but hadn't made Christianity remotely relevant to India yet) but then they found the Native American Land and Caribbean Islands and decided to 'have their fun' there.

Do not fucking stand there and tell me about who Satan (the enemy of both Christianity and Islam) is. I know who "he" is. She, Satana, is God of the OT. You have so much left to understand on the matter and such a high horse from which to climb down.

#13
Swagnarok
Swagnarok's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 1,251
3
2
6
Swagnarok's avatar
Swagnarok
3
2
6
-->
@RationalMadman
It's funny, because the vast majority of people don't realize how vastly nicer the God of the OT was compared to the God of the NT. He would bless (cause to prosper) the Jews for doing good, and cause them to either suffer on earth or die if they consistently failed to keep His laws.
But that's it. They died physically. And this generally only applied to Jews, more rarely to Gentiles who behaved in an exceptionally atrocious manner. At the absolute worst, He would cut short a person's mortal lifespan.

The God of the NT, on the other hand, would literally throw a person in Hell for all eternity, even if they were a gentile who was well-behaved by human standards, on account of the nature that they were born with. Christianity is an insanely cruel ideology because it holds that human beings are sh*t who deserve whatever they get, though I really don't have a problem with it since the overall outcome of its belief and practice tends to be highly positive, both historically and today.
Topic's author
#14
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Swagnarok
I'm infinitely confused as to why you, who I assume has realised much more than just that about the true difference between the 'gods' lists your religion as Christian...

Oh, right, overall outcome. Guess the means don't matter then.
#15
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@RationalMadman
Sorry, Christianity isn't what you say it is, and the gnostics are liars.



#16
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Swagnarok
OT God and NT God are the same.

And Christianity isn't what you think it is either.
#17
Swagnarok
Swagnarok's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 1,251
3
2
6
Swagnarok's avatar
Swagnarok
3
2
6
-->
@Mopac
Yes, I know that they're the same (or so to speak). God the Father was the one who spoke to the Patriarchs, Moses, and the Prophets, whereas the Holy Spirit was involved in certain passages and likely in the penning of the books of the OT. God the Son (Jesus) appeared only in the New Testament, though He was prophesied about in the OT.

So far as knowledge goes, I think I understand Christianity well enough.
#18
Swagnarok
Swagnarok's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 1,251
3
2
6
Swagnarok's avatar
Swagnarok
3
2
6
-->
@Mopac
Eastern Orthodoxy, so far as I understand it, recognizes sin as a spiritual disease, rather than as the collective sum of bad choices made by beings who are presented with an unbiased choice between good and evil and then decide to do wrong just for the lulz. So in that respect it's more honest than Roman Catholicism or most Protestant denominations, though unfortunately I don't think it goes so far as to throw out free will altogether.
I am not an atheist, because I am still open to the possibility of becoming Christian one day (I am hesitant to use the label for myself whenever I've yet to make the sacrifice of self required to be saved). But from a purely logical standpoint the whole thing just does not compute.

We were born sinners, because we are the descendants of people who chose to sin, and for that we are condemned. It is not enough to say that we are beings with a knowledge of good and evil, because the fact that we are naturally selfish biases us extremely heavily towards committing at least a few sins in our lifetime, and in our current state we surely could not go an eternity without doing so. The Bible pretty much admits that it's impossible for a normal (re: non-Jesus) person to live a full life without sinning at all. So to that extent we literally cannot help but to be sinners.
God could have chosen at any time to make us born not sinners, or at the very least make us born into a world where there is not a natural bias towards sin. But He never did that. He allowed us to be born the way that we are and then has the audacity to damn us to a punishment of infinite severity and length, to horrors literally unimaginable and unending. This is not justice. A God who would do this is not just. If He is not just, then at least one Biblical claim about Him is false (and an extremely important one at that).
#19
Swagnarok
Swagnarok's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 1,251
3
2
6
Swagnarok's avatar
Swagnarok
3
2
6
Denying free will can in itself drive a person insane, if they really take this belief seriously in their lives. To claim moral agency for oneself is probably necessary for a healthy human psyche. But what's necessary for a healthy human psyche is not necessarily what is true about reality.
Topic's author
#20
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Swagnarok
In absence of free will, do you or do you not recognise that the person's acceptance of free will being a lie and of flat earth being true are always based on the battle against what we are conditioned to think is insane or not?

Seeking happiness is deceptive. In seeking immediate, obvious happiness Siddhārtha Gautama decided to make a nonsensical religion based on not caring if God was there or not or if will is free or not. It was a ton of somewhat good ideals with utter nonsense behind it. Sad thing is, it's probably morally the best of the religions in theory but in practise is just laziness both mentally and physically, it's quite sad really. They think being 'calm' is something that's an end in itself and that worrying is a bad thing no matter what it achieves since 'achieving' is in the fake irrelevant world outside of your brain... See the irony? In trying to preserve sanity as an end in itself, they created possible the single most realistically insane theory of all religions to base their fairly sane and somewhat good ideals on... Oh Buddhism, is a good joke to me (I do me good in a non harsh and non-taunting sense) it makes me laugh how accurate it somewhat is and yet how inverted it goes about dealing with the correct interpretation of reality.

You should care, you should push past but also appreciate this; those that are deluded didn't choose to be so. If I believed in free will, I'd still be bitter at my dad for things in my childhood, still be mulling over Bench and many other people in pot-boiling anger. I learned to say 'fuck it' but not to be all Buddhist about it beyond the Zen 'fuck it, it wasn't really their actual fault it was a chain reaction in their stupid brains' kind of thing. People are also nice not out of 'free will' so I learned to value it but focus on the triggers. People like me often turn into sociopaths but I learned, and am grateful for learning, that that path gets you banned on sites (no not this stupid recent ban here I am talking deserved long-term bans) and gets you in trouble socially again and again. People are indeed animals, toys even, but that doesn't mean you go tear your teddy to shreds. The optimal way to deal with the unwilling realisation that we all don't have free will is to both accept and yet also accept YOUR OWN feelings and RUN WITH them as much as seems good for your long-term stability psychologically, intellectually and physically. Just do you but also plan ahead for tomorrow's you and you the day after that. I agree with Buddhists, live in the moment but don't agree you shouldn't worry about beyond that moment.

That's basically it. Don't worry about if it will leave you sane or not to find the truth, first find the truth and then find the further truth based on that truth of how to deal with sanity and other things. I'd rather be an insane genius than a sane simpleton any day, I mean that genuinely and have played out the harshest scenarios of the former in my head.
#21
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Swagnarok
That isn't actually a correct understanding of The Trinity. That can be any number of recognized heresies, but it kind of looks like Arianism(actually popular misconception these days).

The idea that The Son is a created being. The Son is The Word of God, not simply a "good teacher" or even just "a man".


Everything was made through The Word of God. To those with understanding, that should give new meaning to what the eucharist is.

#22
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Swagnarok
If you are at least trying, you should be fine. We all fall short, and admitting that is admitting the truth. Christianity is about loving the truth.

Love God(The Truth), be sincere. Show charity to others. 


Instead of looking ill at God for putting you in this situation, be thankful that you exist at all. Did we do anything to earn this life?

Thanksgiving makes life more enjoyable. It really does effect how you go about things as well.

#23
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
Fyi 
Orthodoxy teaches synergy.

A gift that God has given us is the ability to accept or reject.

If you reject God, you are rejecting reality, and this is not good for you.
If you accept God, you are accepting reality, and that is good for you.






#24
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
This place is over run with theist atheists. 

Topic's author
#25
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
--> @Polytheist-Witch

If we're correct then why shouldn't we be the majority?
#26
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
Thank you for your concern RM  but then deny me  a right to reply to you specifically and directly. I am puzzled as to why you adress me directly and specifically direct and dedicate a whole thread to me personally, but have me on block?


Anyway: 

If only you'd stop being a warrior against all religion 
 
 I am not against all religion, in fact the only religion I can honestly say I am against, is ISLAM. 
Please note >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It is the scriptures I dispute,<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< and  the New Testament in particular because it is a nonsense the way it has come down to us and more of a nonsense they way it has been taught to us by bible thumping hypocrites of whom many simply haven't read the book for themselves.  Make of that what you will.  I don’t care. I believe all the characters in the bible existed including the many gods. 
Stephen, please open your eyes.
 
I have and can see another story hidden below the surface of these scriptures.

Yours truly,
RM
 Yours sincerely,
Stephen

#27
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
Stephen is one of those ancient alien idiots.
Ancient "gods", I think you mean , Witch. And the scriptures do actually say they descended from above , Witch. You can make of that what you will.

 Now, about your gods, those you believe in the ones you mention here:>

The god Wodan/Odin was the god of Yule
Where does "Wodan/Odin" exist ? where did he come from?

Holle in the German tradition shares the lead of the Hunt and the Yule celebration. 

Who is "Holle" and where does Holle exist? Where did he come from?

#28
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Mopac
OT God and NT God are the same.

prove it

And Christianity isn't what you think it is either.

I agree.

#29
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,624
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
This place is over run with theist atheists. 

Such as yourself and I, Witch. It is a religion forum though by the way. so Theist and atheists would normally post on a religion forum about religion..
#30
Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,217
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3
-->
@Stephen
Stephen. 
Do you consider yourself a good scripture translator?

Stephen?
Hey stephen.
Is it safe to say you are in the Top 10,000 peoples thats ever been and is,  when it comes to deciphering ?

Top 1000 ?

Top 100 ? 
Ten. 

From that. I HAVE  AND  CAN see other story COMMENT #26 i ummmmm.
i have and can now see what type of person you are. 
I get it now. 

Hey stephen ,  Good weekend mate.