Donald Trump

Author: TheUnderdog

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TheUnderdog
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If you like Trump, try to convince me to vote for him.

If you don’t like Trump, try to convince me to not vote for him.

The Never Trumpers and the MAGA crowd have made up their minds.  I have not.  If Trump wins in 2024, it won’t be because of the Never Trump Crowd or the MAGA crowd.  It will be because of swing voters like me.

So make your case.  I’m going to tag one never Trumper and one person that I think is in the MAGA crowd, but anyone is free to convince me to vote, or to not vote for Donald Trump if he runs in 2024 and beats DeSantis in the primary.  Let’s say it’s 2024, Biden vs Trump rematch.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
@YouFound_Lxam
You guys are the people I’m going to tag.
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@TheUnderdog
It’s honestly a simple question. Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?
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The main reason to vote for Trump is that it might cause the collapse of the deep state as they reveal more and more of themselves in their desperate attempts to destroy him.

This may occur in any case as the civil war might be inevitable. For example if Desantis wins the primary and they go after him like they've gone after Trump you'll know war is inevitable.

The main reason not to vote for Trump is that he failed to drain the swamp. He rode the line between a Lincoln like near-dictator who saves the republic and a sucker who just accepted anyone recommended to him.

If you want to take Rome, you need to cross the river.

There is a chance he's learned from his mistakes, but that is a big risk regardless. He also appears to be a braggart with delusions of grandeur and no knowledge of the sciences.
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@ILikePie5
It’s honestly a simple question. Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?
Only a retard thinks like that. Besides, Trump cut taxes for wealthy people and then mismanaged the response to Covid and he still got 74 million votes.

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@ADreamOfLiberty
The main reason to vote for Trump is that it might cause the collapse of the deep state
There is no deep state you idiot

He rode the line between a Lincoln like near-dictator who saves the republic
How dare you compare Trump to Lincoln

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@ILikePie5
It’s honestly a simple question. Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?
4 years ago my net worth was below $10,000.  Now it’s over $30000.  So I am.  But that’s not because of Biden; it’s because I have had more time to build wealth.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
The main reason to vote for Trump is that it might cause the collapse of the deep state as they reveal more and more of themselves in their desperate attempts to destroy him.
From 2017 to 2020, Trump ran the deep state.

For example if Desantis wins the primary and they go after him like they've gone after Trump you'll know war is inevitable.
If DeSantis wins the primary, Trump is going to run as an independent and split the GOP vote so the democrat wins by plurality or majority.  If Trump wins the primary, Jan 6 made him lose the normie vote.

The main reason not to vote for Trump is that he failed to drain the swamp.
What is the swamp?  If you define the swamp as all elected officials, then SOMEONE has to represent Americans and they would be the new swamp.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Trump cut taxes for wealthy people
Anyone who advocates for tweaking the tax code should be specific with how they would tweak the tax code.

Trump cut taxes on the wealthy from 39% to 37%.  This isn’t much.
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@TheUnderdog
If you need other people to tell you who to vote for, do the rest of us who don't a favor and don't vote. Who to vote for should be obvious based on what kind of govt you want to rule over you or govt that governs.
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@sadolite
If you need other people to tell you who to vote for, do the rest of us who don't a favor and don't vote. 
This isn’t what I’m doing.  I’m asking left and right wingers to convince me to not vote or to vote for Trump.
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I don't come from the US, but with Trump the world was more peaceful. Now we're close to be fucked.
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The main reason to vote for Trump is that it might cause the collapse of the deep state
There is no deep state you idiot
The evidence disagrees.


He rode the line between a Lincoln like near-dictator who saves the republic
How dare you compare Trump to Lincoln
Easily, that's the wonderful thing about being an anonymous internet guy. You can say exactly what you believe and make any comparison that seems to you to be useful.
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@TheUnderdog
The main reason to vote for Trump is that it might cause the collapse of the deep state as they reveal more and more of themselves in their desperate attempts to destroy him.
From 2017 to 2020, Trump ran the deep state.
No, he did not. He had the nominal authority to wage war on the deep state yet he did nothing. He took their advice and their recommended personnel and he was stabbed in the back countless times without learning.

If Trump wins the primary, Jan 6 made him lose the normie vote.
There is no normie vote. American democracy is dead. All that matters is ballot harvesting and the only chance for a republican to ever win another obviously critical election again is playing the game even dirtier than democrats.

The main reason not to vote for Trump is that he failed to drain the swamp.
What is the swamp?  If you define the swamp as all elected officials, then SOMEONE has to represent Americans and they would be the new swamp.
I do not define the swamp as all elected officials, I define the swamp as whatever group of power holders are working together to maintain the military industrial complex by aligning academia, media, and government policy against anyone who would dare suggest that war isn't a good thing or that US foreign policy should involve fewer sales of weapons or foreign bases.

Their motivations are diverse, but mostly it's about money. For example Biden making $$$ as a side effect of the US democracy-destroyers (CIA and all other three letter agencies) organizing a coup in Ukraine.

Some of these people are elected, others are not. None care about Mexican gangs, it was Trump suggesting playing nice with Russia that made TDS a necessary psy-op. The Abraham accords also made Trump dangerous to them.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
He had the nominal authority to wage war on the deep state yet he did nothing. 
What is the deep state?  Matt Walsh asks what is a woman when people claim transwomen are women.  I ask what is the deep state when you claim Trump is waging war against the deep state.  I define the deep state as the federal government.

There is no normie vote.
If this was the case, then elections wouldn’t swing from republican president to democrat president.

American democracy is dead.
No it isn’t; sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.  Like if Walker wasn’t a hypocrite, Warnock wouldn’t have power.  But he is, so the swing voters supported the democrat; just like the swing voters supported Kemp over Abrams.

All that matters is ballot harvesting and the only chance for a republican to ever win another obviously critical election again is playing the game even dirtier than democrats.
Elections aren’t rigged.  I didn’t vote for Biden, but he won fair in square.

What do you think about getting rid of political parties and forcing politicians to run as independents?  Then democrats (and republicans) won’t win or lose elections ever again; just independents who have to be held accountable.  Most issues aren’t that related to each other.  You may be a hardcore pro lifer for instance; it shouldn’t stop you from believing Blaire white is a woman (converse, inverse, and contrapositive apply equally).  If you’re right wing on both those issues, fine.  But there are 81 issues I found where democrats and republicans disagree.  Do you REALLY have to agree with the right on all 81?  Don’t you think that’s being a hack?

I define the swamp as whatever group of power holders are working together to maintain the military industrial complex by aligning academia, media, and government policy against anyone who would dare suggest that war isn't a good thing or that US foreign policy should involve fewer sales of weapons or foreign bases.
With the exception of the Ukraine war, ending war is a left wing thing.  You define the swamp as power holders.  What is the difference between power holders and elected government officials?

None care about Mexican gangs
The gangs are in Mexico.  The Taliban run the Middle East; us getting involved there would be pro war.  The drug cartels are in Mexico; us getting involved would be pro war.

The Abraham accords also made Trump dangerous to them.
What are the Abraham accords?
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@TheUnderdog
If you need convincing, my response still stands
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@TheUnderdog
He had the nominal authority to wage war on the deep state yet he did nothing. 
What is the deep state?  Matt Walsh asks what is a woman when people claim transwomen are women.  I ask what is the deep state when you claim Trump is waging war against the deep state.  I define the deep state as the federal government.
There is a lot of overlap with the federal government, but that is not the definition. It is a lot more nebulous a definition than "woman" but if you want something very specific that covers 95% of what people mean when they say "deep state" try this:

The deep state is anyone in a position of power or influence who look at FBI agents destroying evidence that could aid Jan 6 defendants and say to themselves "I would have done the same thing."

You can't see the wind, but you can feel it and you can see it working. https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/

"Their work touched every aspect of the election. They got states to change voting systems and laws and helped secure hundreds of millions in public and private funding. They fended off voter-suppression lawsuits, recruited armies of poll workers and got millions of people to vote by mail for the first time. They successfully pressured social media companies to take a harder line against disinformation and used data-driven strategies to fight viral smears. They executed national public-awareness campaigns that helped Americans understand how the vote count would unfold over days or weeks, preventing Trump’s conspiracy theories and false claims of victory from getting more traction. After Election Day, they monitored every pressure point to ensure that Trump could not overturn the result. “The untold story of the election is the thousands of people of both parties who accomplished the triumph of American democracy at its very foundation,” says Norm Eisen, a prominent lawyer and former Obama Administration official who recruited Republicans and Democrats to the board of the Voter Protection Program."

Without the spin: They changed election laws to allow for mass mail in voting which allows for mass ballot harvesting and fraud. They suppressed information on social media (including now well proven stories). They attacked and threatened the people whose job it was to detect election irregularities.

We now know that this campaign was aided, abetted, and probably organized by elements in the FBI and DOJ in general. They were organizing censorship of true information even under Trump. You foolishly assume that because Trump was in the oval office he controlled things, he did not order the Hunter Biden laptop story to be suppressed or organize the media into falsely reporting that it was Russian disinformation. YET that effort was organized from within the federal government.

This is what they mean when they say "our" democracy.

That's not democracy, and they can keep it in their degenerate shit stained failing cities where all the purportedly racist cops beat them mercilessly.

There is no normie vote.
If this was the case, then elections wouldn’t swing from republican president to democrat president.
I didn't say there was never a normie vote. The last anti-establishment president may have been JFK though...

American democracy is dead.
No it isn’t; sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.
Yes it is. A republican winning isn't proof of anything if the republican in question supports the deep state. Some states have not had their elections fully subverted (see Florida).

Like if Walker wasn’t a hypocrite, Warnock wouldn’t have power.  But he is, so the swing voters supported the democrat; just like the swing voters supported Kemp over Abrams.
You assume swing voters supported the democrat. You do not know and cannot know unless and until there is a secure and auditable election.

All that matters is ballot harvesting and the only chance for a republican to ever win another obviously critical election again is playing the game even dirtier than democrats.
Elections aren’t rigged.
You have no way to know that.

 I didn’t vote for Biden, but he won fair in square.
You have no way to know that.

What do you think about getting rid of political parties and forcing politicians to run as independents?
Parties were never written into the constitution(s) and do not rely on any official government recognition to exist.

Winner takes all voting leads to two arbitrary political alliances fighting by the inexorable logic of game theory. The parties are merely the veneer of this truth and so is the "left right" terminology.

I define the swamp as whatever group of power holders are working together to maintain the military industrial complex by aligning academia, media, and government policy against anyone who would dare suggest that war isn't a good thing or that US foreign policy should involve fewer sales of weapons or foreign bases.
With the exception of the Ukraine war, ending war is a left wing thing.
A statement that could be forgiven if you just woke up from a 15 year hibernation. Bush was a deep state president. So was Obama. They said different things but they did the same thing. Trump broke the deep state's hold on the republican party, and that was dangerous to the deep state. They were safe as long as both party's candidates kept the crank turning. That is why they didn't need to undermine previous elections.

 You define the swamp as power holders.  What is the difference between power holders and elected government officials?
Not just power holders, power holders with certain goals. Not just elected power holders either, but unelected ones as well.

For example an FBI general counsel (James Baker) was hired as the top lawyer for Twitter. He then proceeded to coordinate with the FBI on censorship. It should go without saying that this is unmistakable violation of the bill of rights and any member of government who willingly participated is a domestic enemy of the constitution and guilty of sedition. (Also he was not the only DOJ spy/handler at twitter)

That FBI agent was not elected, but he was part of the swamp.

What are the Abraham accords?
Something you would know about if you included an honest news service in your information diet.
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@TheUnderdog
Trump cut taxes on the wealthy from 39% to 37%.  This isn’t much.
The top tax rate was cut from 39.6 to 37 and the rate went from beginning at 470k taxable income to 700k taxable income.

The biggest advantage was given to pass through income.

The tax bill that President Trump signed into law in 2017 dramatically cut taxes for wealthy individuals and corporations. It slashed the top individual income tax rate, carved out a special new deduction mainly benefiting wealthy business owners, gutted the tax on large inheritances, and significantly reduced taxes on corporations. In 2020, the average household in the 1 percent will receive a tax cut of $50,000—77 times larger than the average cut for the bottom 80 percent of Americans.

One of the biggest loopholes within the bill is the so-called pass-through loophole, which created a 20 percent deduction of business income for owners of businesses such as S corporations or LLCs

The 2017 law doubled the exemption so that more than $22 million of a couple’s wealth can be transferred to heirs tax-free—meaning that the wealthiest estates will pay more than $4 million less each than they would have under the pre-TCJA tax code.
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Why can't you just look at the evidence for yourself?

The manner in which he was LOVED by so many before he announced his presidential candidacy.
The manner in which the left reacted when he announced his presidential candidacy.
The manner in which the left reacted when he became POTUS. 
The manner in which the federal government conspired with the MSM to undermine his presidency.
The manner in which the Democrats conspired against him and undermined him for four continuous years.
The manner in which the left orchestrated all the failures of the 2020 election, but claimed it was a conspiracy.

I could go on and on...

Yeah, Donald J. Trump is an unfiltered mouthpiece; but that is precisely what America needs.  It's exactly why he got elected in the first place. People were tired of the DC Swamp. They still are.

Nothing DJT has ever done has been "unhinged," unlike Biden Inc crime family. 

If you cannot see the truth of the way this world is headed, you're a lost cause. We all are if no one does anything to make the world a better place without the Democrats running it into the proverbial TOILET!! 
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@TWS1405_2
Nothing DJT has ever done has been "unhinged," 
Covfefe!

Person woman man camera TV

“I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? As you see, it gets in the lungs, it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that."

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@IwantRooseveltagain
Context fallacy. 

I have no idea what you're even talking about here, but suffice to say, my point was about his politics and his goal for making this country GREAT again. 

Try again, pencil dick. 
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@TWS1405_2
I have no idea what you're even talking about here,
That’s because you are a dummy.

These are all things he said as President. When someone says they are a “very stable genius” they probably are not either.
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Nothing DJT has ever done has been "unhinged," 
[IwantRooseveltagain] Covfefe!
A typo turned into a joke is your idea of unhinged? TDS is real, seek help.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
What was he trying to spell? Should the President of the United States make jokes about failures of communication?

And the other two quotes?

How about the “perfect phone call”. Was that unhinged?

Do you believe him when he says he is a very stable genius?


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@IwantRooseveltagain
I know you are, but what am I 

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
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[IwantRooseveltagain] What was he trying to spell?
coverage

[IwantRooseveltagain] Should the President of the United States make jokes about failures of communication?
Should the so called POTUS utterly fail to communicate and then pretend it was fine while the so called media translates for him and also pretends everything is fine?


[IwantRooseveltagain] And the other two quotes?
Disinfectant was confusion, not unhingement. He never said bleach, he did not know bleach was the subject.

[IwantRooseveltagain] How about the “perfect phone call”. Was that unhinged?
No, it was the most nothing burger I've ever seen. Probably the least pressure Ukraine has felt in a decade from the USA.

[IwantRooseveltagain] Do you believe him when he says he is a very stable genius?
No
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Disinfectant was confusion, not unhingement. He never said bleach, he did not know bleach was the subject.
What do you think he meant when he said disinfectant?

No, it was the most nothing burger I've ever seen.
That’s because you’re an idiot. Trump  tried to extort an ally for lies that would help him with his re-election by withholding military aid already authorized by Congress. He wanted an announcement, that Biden was being investigated by the Ukrainian government.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
coverage
Now why couldn’t Trump say that? What do you think of any person who is so insecure they can’t admit a simple mistake, not even a typo on a tweet?

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[IwantRooseveltagain] What do you think he meant when he said disinfectant?
He likely thought it was some newish or rare chemical that destroyed covid. He choose that word because that is the word the presenter used.

That's how scientifically illiterate people think "magic word" does "magic thing" and... moving on. The kind of people who look at ebuc's nonsense and say "ooh wow, deep".

Now I'm thinking about Trump commenting on geodesic 2-spirit blabla bla, he would probably call it "genuis, like you've never seen"... provided ebuc complemented him first. This is going to have me chuckling all day.

[IwantRooseveltagain] Trump  tried to extort an ally for lies that would help him with his re-election by withholding military aid already authorized by Congress.
You assume, no such threat is in the transcript nor was there anything that implied dishonesty was requested.

that Biden was being investigated by the Ukrainian government.
The transcript was a request for an investigation, not the announcement of an investigation absent an investigation. Also Biden was corrupt in exactly the way Trump had clearly been informed he was so there would be no dishonestly regardless.

coverage
Now why couldn’t Trump say that?
He could have, I assume that 95/100 times he could type that word into his phone (given enough diet pepsi). Just like eventually Biden will climb those stairs or find the stage exit.


What do you think of any person who is so insecure they can’t admit a simple mistake, not even a typo on a tweet?
Insecurity would be trying to kill the story by ignoring it. He embraced it and thereby showed an ability to laugh at himself.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
This is going to have me chuckling all day.
That’s because you’re a chucklehead 

He likely thought it was some newish or rare chemical that destroyed covid.
That’s dumb

The transcript was a request for an investigation, not the announcement of an investigation absent an investigation
That’s not what Trump’s ambassador Gordon Sondland said. 

Also Biden was corrupt in exactly the way Trump had clearly been informed he was so there would be no dishonestly regardless.
That’s a lie. The removal of that Ukrainian official was the policy of the US State Department and our European allies