we are in time of sorrows

Author: Melcharaz

Posts

Total: 150
Topic's author
#1
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
according to matthew 24:5-8

love God and then he will teach you to love others. love is not an emotion, its a behavior rooted in the Holy Spirit. which is necessary for salvation and can only be given to those who obey God, asking and waiting on it in faith.
#2
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,060
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
@ Melcharaz

Love is an overused epithet.

That can  be used to describe a million and one internal responses to external stimuli.

GOD hypotheses being just a few examples.

Ice cream being another.

Topic's author
#3
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
you and i have enough history to know i dont care for your opinion. i advise you to simply leave me and my opinions/truths alone.

or i could troll you, but im lazy rn.
so, ill simply just reply with

derp
#4
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 354
Posts: 10,546
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
Well, the society would be better if they all followed The New Testament.

The New Testament has good principles that are universal and easy to apply. They just require will.
#5
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,608
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Best.Korea
Well, the society would be better if they all followed The New Testament.

Example of following the New Testament:

" I have not come to bring peace but a sword". Matthew 10:34-36
" I have come only to the people of Israel".Matthew 15:24

The New Testament has good principles that are universal and easy to apply. They just require will.

" If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple". Luke 14:26

"From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.” Luke 12:52--53

Yes, I see lots of love and tolerance in just those few of many divisive comments made by "the Lord". 

#6
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,500
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
Love is not an emotion? How false this statement is, for god sake. You cannot love someone just because an old outdated book tells you to do so. You love people because you feel like doing it, not because of your own free will.

I tell you something, a new era is coming where there is no room for religions.
#7
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,608
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@IlDiavolo
 a new era is coming

Indeed, a new age is already here.
#8
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,338
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@IlDiavolo
Well, that depends on how you define religion.
And even then, I'm not expecting the old religions to disappear anytime soon.

I'd agree love is an emotion,
But I can also view it 'expressed as behavior,
An action one experiences from or to others, influences.
#9
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7
-->
@Melcharaz


YOUR EXPLICIT QUOTE: "love God and then he will teach you to love others."


Melcharaz,

Can you give me some needed insight upon your statement above that relates to what Jesus said in this passage: “But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you." (Luke 6:27)

Case in point, the following entities that a part of Jesus' creation have done to me over the years are as shown below:

1. A rapist was on parole and raped my brother's 12 year old girl coming home from school, and she has had terrible memories of this fact ever since in being 15 at this time!
Question: how am I to love this enemy of my beloved grand daughter, as Jesus so states?

2. My Grandmother was putting groceries in her car from the super-market, where 3 gang members approached her, beat her to unconsciousness, stole 
her purse, and she has had cognitive issues from her brain being damaged from the assault to this day!
Question: how am I to love these gang members as enemies of my beloved grandmother as Jesus so states?

3.  My former neighbor was drunk, and beat his 9 year old son to death, and when arrested by the police, he said that Satan made him do it!
Question: how am I to love this enemy father to this poor child that beat him to death as Jesus so states?

4.  My sister is a Hell Bound Catholic, nonetheless, she found out that a Catholic priest was buggering her 7 year old son many times after Sunday school before she picked him up in the care of the pedophile priest!  
Question: how am I to love this enemy pedophile priest to my sister's 7 year old son as Jesus so states?

5. I lost two friends in the 9/11 attack in New York, of which, Osama Bin Laden was the ring-leader of this attack!
Question: how am I to love this enemy Osama Bin Laden subsequent to him killing my friends and 3500+ US citizens as Jesus so states?

Awaiting a coherent and timely response.  Thank you.

.
#10
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,338
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@BrotherD.Thomas
That we or our loved ones are capable of evil,
Yet remain loved,

This consideration only need be extended to others,
For who is without sin?
#11
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,500
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@Stephen
Don't get me wrong. Eventhough I feel a profound rejection to religions, it doesnt mean I deny the spiritual dimension of human beings.

Religions were alright in the past. Now it doesnt fit this advanced world. We need better ways to explain human nature so we can evolve accordingly.
#12
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,338
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@IlDiavolo
Why do we need to?
#13
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,500
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@Lemming
Because this is what our nature demands. Thats why there are religions all around the world no matter how stupid they look.

We need to fill the hole religions will leave. You know, there are questions that we ask ourselves, like where we come from, if there is an afterlife, why we exist, and the like.
#14
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,338
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@IlDiavolo
How will this be 'different than religion?
#15
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,500
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@Lemming
If you have good theories for those questions I think religions arent necessary.

There are some attempts to explain our human nature, but it can't be proven. However, they look much more believable than what religions sell us. For example, all the things related to mindfulness sound good to me. I found quite interesting the explanation of Joe Dispensa, to mention a person who talks about it.
#16
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,338
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@IlDiavolo
I would argue people are 'easily still able to use many religions as allegory, partial, or aesthetic,
I'd argue many do now, as well as in the past.

I'd argue religion has many examples of logic, observation, and game theory,
Take for example,

The Parable of the Sower
13 That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2 Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”
10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”
11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:
“Though seeing, they do not see;
    though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
    you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
    they hardly hear with their ears,
    and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
    hear with their ears,
    understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’[a]
16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

Or Ox Mountain,

Mencius said, "The woods on Ox Mountain were once beautiful! On account of its being on the edge of a large country, it had been attacked with axes and hatchets, and then how could it remain beautiful? The refreshing breezes of day and night, and the moisture provided by rain and fog, did not fail to give rise to sprouts of vegetation. But cows and sheep have been repeatedly pastured there, and for that reason it has remained desolate. People observe its denuded state and assume that it never had any good resources. But how could this state be the true nature of this mountain?" — Mencius, 6A:8
Mencius argued that "bad" human natures were produced just as the bad condition of Ox Mountain had been produced, so the answer to "bad" humans was to protect and nurture them from birth. He also thought that punishment does not do much good. It does not cure the root of the problem.

. . .

Lastly, I question,
If religion makes a claim of what existence is, how it came about, what we ought do,

How becomes this different from any other claimant?

For what reason is there a 'church of Humanism or a humanism Chaplin?

#17
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,500
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@Lemming
Christianity was built with older beliefs, just so you know. So, one thing is the religion and other the teachings they use. What Jesus said, for example, is universally accepted. What shouldtn be accepted is for example making Jesus a God, or making his mon virgin. Thats what religions make up.
#18
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,338
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@IlDiavolo
Certainly Christianity has roots that go deep into time,
But arguably each new branch also starts when they are founded,
Even today, new views of Christianity, Churches, are founded.

Theories of medicine go back further even than the Greek physician Hippocrates,
But that the roots are deep in time, does not prevent our use of them.

It is for individuals to decide, I'd argue,
Whether they believe Jesus is God,
Or his mother a virgin.

Indoctrination exists,
But this is unavoidable,
Even if we abandoned our young in the woods, to formulate themselves,
It would have been a choice of inaction, also a choice of forest.
People will raise their heirs as wards as they think is right, and as they are allowed by community.


Topic's author
#19
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
yall think too much with your own logic and ego.
God has called us to obey him. There is only 1 way to be saved, acts 2:38.

The scriptures tell us that we must be willing to give everything to follow christ, even to the rejecting of family and our will.
infact, its written that with much tribulation and suffering the saints will enter heaven.

but, if you would desire peace and would want the emptiness in your heart to be filled, if you would be free from the chains of addictions and sorrows that bind your hearts. Jesus Christ is the Only answer.
other gods just make you swap chains, or they give disciplines that shift your attention off of them. For satan and his angels are even now in chains are darkness, hopelessness and cannot free you, only offer pleasure to deepen the bondage.


Topic's author
#20
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
-->
@BrotherD.Thomas
i will suffer you this question only. you as well have no need to speak with me, seeing as in the past i harassed barney to get a ro against you.

love has to do with forgiveness and mercy when the person doesnt deserve it. its giving food if the rapist is hungry, its clothing the harlot, its giving water to the murderer. because love isnt about how we feel, or how evil they are. but that God working through us to have mercy on them, as God has and had mercy on us.

no one in heaven or earth can recieve this love unless the father gives it. Love is something we must seek Jesus for as we love him By obeying him. Through the Holy Spirit, which as scripture shows is evidenced and manifest by speaking in other tongues ( acts 10:44-48 acts 2:1-4 acts 19:1-6)
This, we must all recieve before even attempting to serve God, otherwise we operate on our logic, on our inferior love and our pride, which makes us to think we can do God's will without his Holy Spirit. such arrogance will destroy millions in judgement.


that is all i will speak to you regarding this until fruits of repentance is manifest in your life and words.
#21
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@Melcharaz
according to matthew 24:5-8

love God and then he will teach you to love others. love is not an emotion, its a behavior rooted in the Holy Spirit. which is necessary for salvation and can only be given to those who obey God, asking and waiting on it in faith.
I'm going to have to disagree with this. 

Matthew 24:5-8: 
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers' places.
All these are the beginning of sorrows.

This verse talks about false prophets, not how to enter the kingdom of heaven, or how to make a relationship with God. 

And love is an emotion, that God gave us. God is love, and he gave us each little pieces of himself, so that in return we could love him back. 

But yes, there is only one way to be saved. 

I like to keep it in simple terms. Loving God is like a marriage. You wouldn't cheat on your significant other, unless you didn't truly love them.
Same with God. It's like a marriage, and cheating is sin. 
God will still forgive you of your sin, but you must love him.
It's more than just believing he exists; you have to have a relationship with him. 

You don't use God as a "get into heaven free card".
#22
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@Melcharaz
Also, don't mind Brother D.

He is a certified troll. 
Topic's author
#23
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
are you unable to discern how that verse is for the title and the words after that are to exhort people to obey it?

#24
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@Melcharaz
If that was your intention, then by all means that is my fault, but when you say:
according to matthew 24:5-8

That gives me the impression that what you are about to say, is somewhat of a translation to what it means and is trying to convey. 


Topic's author
#25
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
i often use the title like as the 1st sentence.

i do apologize if it brought confusion, that was not my intent.
#26
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@Melcharaz
It's fine, I must have just misinterpreted it. 

You bring a good message though.
Topic's author
#27
Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
all good things are from the father. Him alone.
#28
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,500
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@Lemming
Yeah, thats exactly what religions do, indoctrinate. And I see many indoctrinated people in this forum. 

As I said, we are entering a new age, people will be more open minded and see religions are not the way to evolve.
#29
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,568
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@IlDiavolo

Yes, The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason is a 2004 book by Sam Harris, concerning organized religion, the clash between religious faith and rational thought, and the problem of intolerance that correlates with religious fundamentalism.

#30
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,338
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@IlDiavolo
In my view,
People and societies indoctrinate,
It doesn't matter if theist or atheist.

The law is in force,
Be it a parent, or government,
They have rules, expectations.

Says the parent,
I need to explain to my kid why he can't kick other kids.
Says the government,
This is the law.

. . .

I could use the word teach,
If you take indoctrination to mean without question,
Though even with the negative definition,
The law is in force.

. . .

Certainly it is a new era,
Technological changes, societal changes,

Though I am confused by your refrain of religion as the problem.

Your profile says Buddhism,
Though it's possible your definition of religion is not as wide as mine.

. . .

How do you define religion?