I have a dream

Author: TheUnderdog

Posts

Total: 27
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
That people are no longer judged by the color of their skin or their sexual orientation or their gender expression or their vaccination status or any of their political opinions (even if you believe in right wing or left wing culture war) or whether or not they want to own an AR 15 without a universal background check or their documentation status but by the content of their character.  This applies to companies firing you.  We need to make it as easy as possible for people to get hired to minimize the welfare state.
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
I might even include this to mean free college (as long as it’s not a useless major like gender studies; that major won’t help you get a job).
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 172
Posts: 3,946
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
I had a dream too, I believe it was about my dad fighting dinosaurs while wearing a unicorn suit in the middle of nowhere.

Still, equality is good.
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@TheUnderdog
I might even include this to mean free college (as long as it’s not a useless major like gender studies; that major won’t help you get a job).
But oh no! That means tax! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YOU ARE A THIEF SUPPORTER HOW DAAAAAAAaaaAAAARRRRrrrrEEEE youuuuu
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@TheUnderdog
I agree to an extent. You can't change the color of your skin, so yes, I agree with that. 

The thing is, when someone makes a decision, that is the content of their character showing. 
The sad thing about today, is that we don't even know what a good character, and a bad character is anymore. 
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@TheUnderdog
As an alternative to free college, a much less costly alternative, PA's new Governor recently rescinded the college degree requirement for 65,000 state government jobs. I'm surprised it's taken this long, to be honest, as I know plenty of morons with college degrees. Having one (particularly in soft skill fields, we're not talking about medical doctors or accountants or lawyers, we're talking about things like business degrees, polisci degrees, etc.) doesn't demonstrate much of anything beyond you can show up someplace when you're expected to and do the work asked of you. There's a lot of ways to show that that don't cost $400K. 


ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
we don't even know what a good character, and a bad character is anymore. 
Why don't you tell us what you think a good or bad character is? I bet we agree on a ton of them. 
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@RationalMadman
But oh no! That means tax!
Free college costs the typical American 50 cents a day in taxes.  But I’m courious as to how far does that argument go?  Would we ban public school because taxes fund it?  Would we not make COVID vaccines free?  I don’t want to fund gender studies majors, but STEM might be okay.
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
The thing is, when someone makes a decision, that is the content of their character showing. 
This only applies to some decisions.  Having gay sex or being unvaccinated is very different than murder.
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@ludofl3x
We should get rid of useless majors, but I don’t think math majors or doctor degrees fall in that category.  Should useful majors be free to get?
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@TheUnderdog
We should get rid of useless majors, but I don’t think math majors or doctor degrees fall in that category.  Should useful majors be free to get?
Who decides what majors are useless and how?

Short answer is no, but for me I don't think college can be free. I'm saying I agree with the PA governor: degrees aren't the leading indicator for competence in many fields.  
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@ludofl3x
I support getting rid of the mandate to have a college degree for any job that doesn’t absolutely require one.

Who decides what majors are useless and how?
If the major can pay well when your done with college.

Short answer is no, but for me I don't think college can be free.
Do you think high school degrees should be free?
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@TheUnderdog
If the major can pay well when your done with college.

Be more specific. Educators don't get paid well, according to many. Is that a useless major? And market forces shift all the time. 

Do you think high school degrees should be free?
Diplomas are supported by tax dollars today. Colleges are money making businesses. I don't think it can be free because such a change causes a gigantic economic disruption, if you just take all the schools in the US and say "Now you're free of charge!" it's a disaster on about 15 levels. I didn't say "should", I am thinking in practical terms. 
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@ludofl3x
Educators don't get paid well, according to many. Is that a useless major?
I don’t believe you should need a college degree to teach high school algebra.  In order to teach algebra in my book, you just need to know algebra.  So I think if you want to be a teacher, you shouldn’t need college for it.

My main reason for possibly supporting free college is so that poor students that are smart can go to college.
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@TheUnderdog
  In order to teach algebra in my book, you just need to know algebra
Teaching is a different skill than knowing. Ted Williams was a terrible hitting coach, for example. 

My main reason for possibly supporting free college is so that poor students that are smart can go to college.
Lots of ways to skin this cat, especially when universities are flush with money as it is. And those ways don't need votes to get them done. The goal is noble for sure. 
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@ludofl3x
Teaching is a different skill than knowing.
I disagree.  I was able to teach my sister trigonometry without a degree in teaching.  I know trig, so I could teach my sister who is bad at math.
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@TheUnderdog
I disagree.  I was able to teach my sister trigonometry without a degree in teaching.  I know trig, so I could teach my sister who is bad at math.
Bro, that's ONE CASE. Are you serious, that's your counterargument to teachers needing degrees? 

Educators have to have skills in EDUCATING. They have to understand child development and psychology. They have to learn how to disseminate the information in such a way that it reaches 20 different people. 
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@TheUnderdog
I am not anti tax. I was paraphrasing you elsewhere.
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@ludofl3x
If you REALLY need a degree to teach, why is homeschooling very effective (more effective than public school)?
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@TheUnderdog
Honeschool tutors have degrees.
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@RationalMadman
Few homeschooling teachers have degrees in education.  Many have degrees in general, but few do for specifically education.
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@TheUnderdog
I'm not sure that's true firstly and secondly there's plenty of specialist teachers who came it that way around too, doing the teaching part of their degree as either a side degree or training course as a freelance tutor of sorts.
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@TheUnderdog
Your original dilemma was what use is a degree if homeschooling is effective. I said that isn't really a valid dilemma as homeschool tutors have degrees.
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@RationalMadman
https://www.air.org/news/press-release/homeschooling-increases-united-states-parents-cite-school-environments-concern states that most homeschooling parents don’t have college degrees, let alone degrees specifically in teaching.  People with degrees in teaching usually are public school teachers, so they would be very pro public school and wouldn’t homeschool.
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@TheUnderdog
The tutors they hire do.
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@RationalMadman
I thought the parents were the tutors.  That’s how middle class parents can homeschool.

RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@TheUnderdog
Oh that is a silly idea but to each their own.