Obviously, I approve of Mike. I won't be voting on the others or myself.
POLL: Do you approve of current moderation?
Posts
Total:
82
I have no idea. I like castin, but as a mod i dont really know. the others i dont know at all.
-->
@Mharman
I don't think this is the right approach. First of all, Mike owns the site, so the only way to protest him is to vote with your feet. Secondly, of all the assistant moderators are essentially cops to bsh's magistrate position, enforcing his moderation policy with their own flair, so there's no point in approving or disapproving of them because we have little idea what their personal moderation policy would be. Personally, I suspect that bsh's moderation philosophy might be far less onerous than Castin's, even though Castin may have a stronger 'social game' so to speak. Thirdly, I don't think that this should be made personal, and that we should stick to differences in moderation policy. While I originally had personal issues with bsh1 due to his stance on free speech, he hasn't really cracked down in the way that I was afraid of so it's not really a personal issue at this point. I do disagree with aspects of current moderation policy, but bsh is a human being capable of addressing those concerns and changing his moderation style. One of the ugliest aspects of current culture in the US is that people are treated like static entities incapable of reform or change, either starkly evil or good based on a laundry list of 'isms'. That's not how human beings work. It would be far more constructive to vote on specific decisions or general principles than on the moderators themselves. Personally, I strongly disagree with Wylted's most recent ban because the thread was a joke (though I could understand people taking it seriously from an outside perspective). I also don't think that people should be punished for doing anything to the mod team aside from threats or doxxing, because moderation should strenuously avoid any appearance of personal grievance. I agree with RM's banning, both in principle (because of his history of prolific threats and doxxings, on and off this site), and generally (because I think that he has a dampening effect on the willingness to debate on the site). Let' talk about policy, not people. Why do you disagree with bsh? Should the CoC be revised and how? How could moderation improve? I think that some of the personal problems with moderation are due to a perceived hesitancy to address their concerns: very well, critique moderation for being unresponsive then. Otherwise we're just slinging shit at each other.
-->
@Mharman
I am only aware of two and I have only had correspondence with two to my knowledge and I approve of both of them. They are Bsh1 and Castin. If the https://www.debateart.com/participants/DebateArt.com is one of these other two then I support them too.
-->
@Mharman
Mike: sure.
All others: NO.
Also, Tejretics should be on this vote as well. I don't approve of him either.
-->
@ResurgetExFavilla
I guess I am in favor of Mike also since we have communicated and he is very helpful. I don't know nor have I had correspondence with the fourth so I will not make a judgment.
-->
@Mharman
Do you approve of Mike?
Yes: 1
No: 0
Do you approve of Bsh1?
Yes: 1
No: 0
Do you approve of Virtuoso?
I have no contact with my knowledge of Virtuoso so I cannot offer a judgment of his moderating skills.
Do you approve of Castin?
Yes: 1
No: 0
IMO, for what it is worth. I would hate to have someone evaluate me on my moderating skills as I judged conduct as per the rules. This site is a service for debates and it has its own rules and regulations that the debater is asked to follow. That is a reasonable standard that those who sign up on this site should respect or ask for changes to the rules. What exactly are some of the objections to the moderators? I have found no fault to date, just one misunderstanding in a debate vote on my behalf.
-->
@ResurgetExFavilla
+1 on the sentiment of that post.
IDK why people think I am unfriendly, but Castin certain is awesome. And Virt and Tej. I think we all do our best, whatever that's worth, for the site. Doesn't mean we're perfect, but we always strive to make the right calls.
-->
@bsh1
I'm grateful you all willingly take on the responsibility. It must take a lot of time and effort. It makes for a better site that rules are established and enforced.
-->
@3RU7AL
Why not?
Because of what you said HERE;
The point is that the rules, as they are stated, are unclear (too subjective) and enforcement appears to be arbitrary.[...]I've seen many RFDs that are left standing that do not meet these requirements and many that are struck down.There doesn't seem to be any consistency one way or another. Even the mods seem to inject personal opinion into their decisions to remove a particular vote and then let another similar vote stand.
You pretty much summarized my sentiments exactly, except that I don't believe the problem is limited exclusively to removal of votes, but other decisions as well.
On the whole I've observed more bad decisions than good ones, and when combined with the fact that one particular moderator treats this forum as an opportunity to talk down to anyone who feels this way, that pretty much seals my vote.
-->
@Raltar
I believe the problem is with the vague rules, not the enforcers themselves.On the whole I've observed more bad decisions than good ones...
-->
@3RU7AL
Who do you think created the rules?
-->
@3RU7AL
I think improving the rules would help. But truly good moderators would still be able to function effectively even with poorly written rules. I don't believe that is happening right now.
Also,
Who do you think created the rules?
What he said.
-->
@drafterman
I believe they were copied verbatim from DDO.Who do you think created the rules?
-->
@Raltar
Poorly written rules are impossible to implement fairly.I think improving the rules would help.
It would be like telling all police officers, "use your best judgment" and then expecting uniform enforcement.
-->
@3RU7AL
By bsh and Virt
-->
@drafterman
I have not completely lost faith in their ability to rectify the situation.
-->
@3RU7AL
We'll, they're pretty heartily thanked for it on the CoC page. Not sure they have incentive to change that.
-->
@3RU7AL
I believe they were copied verbatim from DDO.
The DDO TOS served as the basis for DART's COC, but there were changes and additions. And, after Christmas, I hope to host a series of MEEPs allowing users to provide feedback on the COC, going section-by-section, in order to have a COC that better reflects community feeling. I should have time over break to do that.
-->
@ResurgetExFavilla
This is but a simple poll. I would like to see as many different opinions as possible.
-->
@3RU7AL
Fair enough. Except I don't think the judgement used would be adequately described as "best" in this case.It would be like telling all police officers, "use your best judgment" and then expecting uniform enforcement.
A news flash for wingnuts. THE WORLD ISN'T BLACK AND WHITE.
-->
@Mharman
Yes on Mike.
No on the others.
-->
@disgusted
You really cannot help yourself can you?
-->
@KingLaddy01
With What?
Yes for all of them.
-->
@Mharman
What is this poll for? I don't agree with moves designed simply to confirm a bias or to take shots at moderation. Valid gripes are OK.
Why would we vote on Mike? No one except the mods have enough experience with him to judge. And with bsh1 being supreme king, what would a poll do? Show how "right" your view is?
But I'm posting to say only this. Castin is great. She gets my vote.
Current circumstances mean were I to vote yes for bsh1, it would appear to him like I was trying to avoid a ban, and if I were to vote no, it would appear I was doing it because I was upset about being banned. So I will reserve that vote. It doesn't matter anyway.
So, no comment on the others, but Castin gets a wholehearted yes.
Posting only due to being tagged in this thread...
I neither approve not disapprove of any of them. Were the poll to have a better setup, this would be the third option.
I will say they each obviously care about this site a lot, and that deserves some credit. Please cut them a little slack for whatever prompted this thread, they're flawed humans, just like the rest of us.
-->
@Mharman
Do you approve of Mike?
Yes, 100%. Mike is active, and he cares about his site. That's all I want from a developer. Hell even if he was just active and didn't care about the site and only fulfilled 50% of what I want in a website, that's still 100% more than what we got from the absent Juggle on Debate.org. I consistently get facebook notifications showing that the developer is promoting user debates, almost daily. That may seem like a small thing to an outsider, but as a community member of the website that is huge, and it shows him stepping up for his community. I don't need back to back updates, just to know that we are being heard and that he is doing his best and that's the vibe I get from him.
Do you approve of Bsh1?
Yes. Bsh1 is a great guy, and he does care about people and feelings, that makes him a human. I would rather have an interpersonal mod then some reddit robot that auto bans people. I think effective modding in a community like this needs mods who don't just follow black and white, and use discretion based on context, similar to how Max modded on debate.org. Otherwise a good portion of the active community base could be banned for some reason or another. That said I may not always agree with every single decision he makes (truthfully I haven't been active enough lately to know all the ins and outs and details of his bans). I only saw one situation that I thought he could have handled better, and I never commented or said anything about it because bsh seemed humble and was open to the feedback, rather stamping his foot and defending himself at every corner. So that is awesome, that's what you need in a mod. Max has told me multiple times when he started modding, he made a lot of mistakes, and he was much more strict in the beginning than he was later on. Obviously, Max's modding habits changed quite a bit down the road, and I will safely say I felt the majority of the community were okay with his modding standards (I'll get lynched for saying that, because I know there are a few Max haters around here still, but come at me bro). Bsh is still pretty new to modding here, so I think people shouldn't expect him to be perfect. But I couldn't be happier with another mod, and I think he handles things very professionally. I know I couldn't do better than him, so I wouldn't critique him unless I noticed something pretty severe. From what I knew of him on debate.org, he is a very intelligent guy and generally phrases things very professionally. He has his fun on the site like everyone, but if you were new to debate.org and had talked to him you might have thought he already was a mod by the way he talked. One thing is clear, he cares about the website and the community. On DDO he was always part of groups and organizations that helped further site activity, and benefited the community. I can't think of anyone active here more qualified than bsh to be mod.
Do you approve of Virtuoso?
I don't really know this individual.
Do you approve of Castin?
I don't really know this individual.
-->
@Mharman
Only name I know up there is Bsh1 from convos I've had with Max (Airmax). He spoke very highly of him, so I'll vote YES on Bsh1.