What the reparations argument looks like to a middle of the road voter like myself

Author: TheUnderdog

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#1
TheUnderdog
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The radial left: “It’s so unfair that women were legally raped by men all the way up until the 1970s.  We need to give every woman millions of dollars based on rapes that other women endured.”

Me: Giving every woman $2 million based on hundreds of years of rape would cost about $320 trillion.  That is 50x higher than the US federal budget.

The radical left: Doesn’t matter; pay up your bigot!

If you think this is crazy, this is what I think of giving black people millions of dollars for slavery.

#2
Intelligence_06
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@TheUnderdog
In all honesty, just because women were "legally being raped" in the past, does not make everyone walking past a woman want to have sex with her and reducing her chances of success because she is "likely" a slut. We don't do that. Occasionally maybe with the extra hot ones, but we are all taught to suppress these kinds of urges to not act it out.

This is different with black people, with substantial amounts of social stereotypes. Black people are less rich in general and have less ways of being rich, making these ways "black stereotypes", making their paths to monetary success even more restricted, etc. In some communities, black people are poor and are looked down upon because they are poor, which makes them even less likely to be not poor. That is why we give aids to them.
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#3
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@Intelligence_06
Occasionally maybe with the extra hot ones, but we are all taught to suppress these kinds of urges to not act it out.
We are also taught to not be racist.

Black people are less rich in general
The black per capita income is comparable to the white Canadian per capita income.  Blacks are doing fine in America.
#4
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@TheUnderdog
Reparations are fraudulent claims.
#5
Double_R
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@TheUnderdog
I am against reparations, but this analogy is just silly.

The idea behind reparations (for most who favor it) is not about making up for the moral wrongs done to the people who were enslaved. It’s about recognizing that much of the wealth passed down for generations now was built off of stolen labor, so you may not be responsible and the prospective beneficiaries might not have suffered through it but if that stolen labor was compensated appropriately our society would probably look very different than it does today.

We live in a capitalist society where wealth begets wealth. There are always exceptions to every rule but if you step back and look at this from 30,000 feet it’s not an accident that the descendants and the overall community of the group that was enslaved for centuries and then flagrantly discriminated against for decades to follow are at the bottom of every economic and societal health indicator. We (as a nation) did that, so it falls upon us (as a nation) to do something to fix it.
#6
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@Double_R
 it falls upon us (as a nation) to do something to fix it.
Well thank sensible people America didn't pay to ship them ALL back to Africa or every black person would have suffered almost as badly as when they were enslaved.

People today in Liberia are lucky to make 900 dollars a year. Poor guys that left just didn't believe America could ever get better for blacks.

On August 14, 1862, Lincoln met at the White House delegation of Black leaders to make his case for the voluntary emigration of African Americans to countries outside the U.S. “Your race suffer from living among us, while ours suffer from your presence… It is better for us both, therefore, to be separated,” Lincoln told the delegation.

Thank god enough Blacks told Lincoln to go fuck himself.
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#7
TheUnderdog
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@Double_R
It’s about recognizing that much of the wealth passed down for generations now was built off of stolen labor
If that was the case, southern states would be rich.  Yet America’s richest states were those that did not have slavery for a long time.  New England, New York, California, even Texas (it was a confederate state, but it didn’t have slavery for a long time).

Wealth can get created or destroyed.  The South destroyed its wealth that it got from slavery.
#8
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@TheUnderdog
If that was the case…
If??? This isn’t a debatable contention. The labor was stolen. 

Wealth can get created or destroyed.  The South destroyed its wealth that it got from slavery.
Which is completely irrelevant to this issue and is frankly an asinine argument. Imagine me stealing $100 out of your wallet and when you tell me to give it back I say I no longer owe it to you because I blew it at the strip club.
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@Double_R
Which is completely irrelevant to this issue and is frankly an asinine argument. Imagine me stealing $100 out of your wallet and when you tell me to give it back I say I no longer owe it to you because I blew it at the strip club.
What is analogous is suing someone who stole from you after they filed for bankruptcy, and when finding out he has no money, you then say his neighbor now owes you as some kind of accomplice.
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TheUnderdog
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@Double_R
The government steals money all the time.  The only difference is it’s legal when the government steals money.

That’s the difference between libetarians and socialists.  The libetarians don’t want reperations from previously stolen funds; they just want the theft to stop.  This is for both slavery and taxation.

Socialists tend to want this weird combination, where they want to pay back the hundreds of trillions of dollars that was legally stolen 200 years ago but they also want to increase the theft that happens today from the top 1%.  It’s totally inconsistent.  BTW, giving every black person hundreds of millions of dollars for slavery is very ideologue and would make every black person rich and every white person millions of dollars in debt, so it’s a nonstarter.
#11
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
What is analogous is suing someone who stole from you after they filed for bankruptcy, and when finding out he has no money, you then say his neighbor now owes you as some kind of accomplice.
That’s not analogous at all. Your analogy deals with individuals, we’re talking about the responsibility of society. The problem is that you don’t believe in the concept of society itself, which I always find remarkable. That’s like me telling you there’s no such thing as air as I’m breathing it.
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@TheUnderdog
The libetarians don’t want reperations from previously stolen funds; they just want the theft to stop.
If someone stole money from you I’m pretty sure you’d want it back. And if you died I’m pretty sure you would want it given to your children. That’s basic morality and common sense.

Socialists tend to want this weird combination, where they want to pay back the hundreds of trillions of dollars that was legally stolen 200 years ago but they also want to increase the theft that happens today from the top 1%.  It’s totally inconsistent.
It’s not a weird combination, these are two completely different things.

First of all, hundreds of trillions of dollars? You could at least pretend to be serious.

Second, it’s more than just slavery, it’s also Jim Crowe and segregation.

Third, taxation is not theft. This is a silly comparison. And even if I granted that it’s theft (which I most certainly don’t) it’s categorically different from what we did during slavery.

There’s nothing inconsistent about any of this.

BTW, giving every black person hundreds of millions of dollars for slavery is very ideologue and would make every black person rich and every white person millions of dollars in debt, so it’s a nonstarter.
I don’t know why you’re telling me this because I already made clear I do not support reparations. I’m just responding because your portrayal of the extreme wokists who advocate for this is a caricature. If you’re going to argue against a position you could at least get it right.

I know of no one who thinks every black person should be given hundreds of millions of dollars, and even of someone out there is arguing this that certainly isn’t the view point of 99% of the people advocating for it. You’re just concocting a cartoonis version of the other side so you can knock it down and sound legitimate. All that does is make you look ignorant.


#13
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@Double_R
Reparations  =/= social charity
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@Double_R
I know of no one who thinks every black person should be given hundreds of millions of dollars,
I think he saw a news clip of Gavin Newsome talking about it.
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#15
TheUnderdog
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@Double_R
If someone stole money from you I’m pretty sure you’d want it back.
Uncle Sam steals from me all the time.  It would be nice if he stops.

First of all, hundreds of trillions of dollars? You could at least pretend to be serious.
BLM said they want reperations for 400 years of slavery with interest.  Minimum wage, 400 years, 40 million African Americans, this turns out to be 40 million*400*15000=$240 trillion without interest.  With interest for 400 years, it’s much more.


#16
Double_R
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@TheUnderdog
Someone pulling out a calculator to figure out how much it would come to is entirely different from someone seriously proposing the amount be repaid. Also, who exactly is “BLM” and why should we care?

And no, Uncle Sam isn’t stealing from you. If you don’t want to pay taxes don’t get a job and participate in our economy which is built off of taxation.

And again, even if we want to call this theft it is still categorically different from slavery. Keep pretending otherwise all you want, it just makes you unserious.
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#17
TheUnderdog
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@Double_R
Someone pulling out a calculator to figure out how much it would come to is entirely different from someone seriously proposing the amount be repaid. 
How so?

Also, who exactly is “BLM” and why should we care?
You are African American and socialist.  You know what BLM is.  It’s the Black Lives Matter movement that wants reperations.

And no, Uncle Sam isn’t stealing from you. If you don’t want to pay taxes don’t get a job and participate in our economy which is built off of taxation.
Our economy is not built off of taxes.  I’m not against taxation, but I relieze it’s theft.  But the income tax shouldn’t exist; replace it with a capital gains tax and a sales tax.

And again, even if we want to call this theft it is still categorically different from slavery. Keep pretending otherwise all you want, it just makes you unserious.
Taxation is different from slavery.  Nobody that was taxed got raped, whipped, or killed in the process of taxation.  But what they have in common is it forces people to subsidize the living expenses of others without their consent.
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Double_R
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@TheUnderdog
Someone pulling out a calculator to figure out how much it would come to is entirely different from someone seriously proposing the amount be repaid. 
How so?
One is a calculation, the other is a proposal.

You are African American and socialist. 
I'm neither an African American nor a socialist. 

I'm Puerto Rican, and a barely tanned one at that.

Whether I'm a socialist depends on your definition. If you're talking about someone who believes in actual socialism then I'm not and neither is anyone else I know of. If you're talking about someone who believes in social programs facilitated by the government then I'm a socialist along with about 99% of the population, national and global.

You know what BLM is. It’s the Black Lives Matter movement that wants reperations.
I wasn't asking what the BLM movement was, I was asking you who the individuals you were referring to were when you invoked them behind the vague BLM banner, and why anyone should care what those individuals think being that they hold no elected office nor do they have any significant following.

Our economy is not built off of taxes.
That's just plain silly. The US government is the largest employer in the country and it's services impact every aspect of our economy. You can argue (without any evidence of course) that we would have been just as successful without a strong central government but you cannot argue or economy would be just the same without it. That's like arguing that the Patriots would have won just as many Superbowls without Tom Brady.

I’m not against taxation, but I relieze it’s theft.
Um. Ok.

Taxation is different from slavery.  Nobody that was taxed got raped, whipped, or killed in the process of taxation.  But what they have in common is it forces people to subsidize the living expenses of others without their consent.
This is like arguing that the guy who pushed an old lady to the ground for fun and the guy who pushed an old lady to the ground to move her out of the way of an oncoming bus are the same because they both pushed an old lady to the ground.
#19
PREZ-HILTON
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Honestly if I became president of the United States, I would pay reparations to every single person descended from a slave. I would use it as a wedge to create a UBI, firs every black person in america gets $2000 a month, and then when whites sue, it opens up everyone to get the UBI
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#20
TheUnderdog
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@Wylted
UBI shouldn’t be implemented as US policy because the countries/places that tried UBI ended up repealing it.