How to get conservatives to back planned parenthood

Author: TheUnderdog

Posts

Total: 33
Topic's author
#1
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
The current planned parenthood CEO is Alexis Johnson.  

All that needs to happen for the right to support planned parenthood is Alexis Johnson needs to state all of the following beliefs:

1) Abortion is healthcare (what she already believes and what planned parenthood claims is true).  Abortion should be free.
2) Our southern border needs to be secured.
3) Our law enforcement police officers need to be protected.  Back the blue.  Blue lives matter.
4) The 2020 election was rigged and Donald Trump should be our president.
5) America first.  The left used to be America first with not wanting to fund other country’s wars, but now this is a right wing talking point and the parties switched on isolationism.  The left used to be isolationist, now the right is.
6) The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
7) The government can’t force us to take the COVID vaccine (call the vaccine the jab to appeal to right wing conservatives even more).
8) Transwomen need to stay the hell away from women’s sports (this is something the TERFs already believe but TERFs like Dave Chapelle are already pro choice but the right still loves the guy and the left hates him).
9) Groomers are bad and drag shows are not for kids.  The right has been really hammering the “drag shows are bad for kids” talking point and if planned parenthood agrees with this, the right would give planned parenthood credit and even celebrate planned parenthood (just like they loved Herschel Walker who paid for an abortion and is a deadbeat dad multiple times).

If planned parenthood even for 10 weeks leaned in on the fact that they want abortion to be free, but lean into 8 other hot button right wing issues to a comparable degree on a per issue basis, the right wing base will become pro choice.  They voted for Walker who paid for an abortion because he leans into right wing talking points.  I expect they will treat planned the same.  If the left is on code, they will ignore planned parenthood acting right wing for the sake of trying to get the right wingers on board (and still get legal abortions if they want them).  

Me personally, since I have standards, I don’t care if planned parenthood leans into right wing talking points, I will still want women and men responsible for abortion to be prosecuted by delaying their social security by 3 months per abortion and using the saved revenue to sponsor a starving American kid, but the right is too much into group think to do that.  They will back planned parenthood if they do this.  The left would also probably dislike planned parenthood after that.  We saw this with Caitlyn Jenner.  The left used to love Caitlyn Jenner and the right used to hate her.  This is despite Caitlyn Jenner calling herself a Republican.  

For some reason, if someone is a Republican transgender person that strongly believes in transgenderism and leans into that, the left loves her even more and the right hates her even more just because she calls herself a republican.  If Jenner was a democrat, the left and the right would be like whatever to the party affiliation.  But as soon as Jenner calls themselves a Republican, the left loves her and the right hated her (because the ONE time she disagrees with conservatives she reveals).  But as soon as Caitlyn Jenner ends up stating how she is actually a Republican (she doesn’t think transwomen belong in women’s sports), then the left starts to hate her and the right starts to praise her.

But wait, she claimed she was a Republican and the left loved her and the right hated her.  You both should have reliezed that being republican meant you didn’t want transwomen in women’s sports.

But back to planned parenthood.  If planned parenthood shows all the Republican women who got abortions, and if planned parenthood calls themselves republican, the left would love planned parenthood even more and the right would hate them even more.  But if planned parenthood leans into why they are Republican (even if they don’t believe these things; just say them enough and the right would back you just like how people on the left and right now call Caitlyn Jenner, “she”, but only people on the left call liberal transwomen she), the right would back them.

The right wing base will back anyone that is right wing on the culture war, even if it violates their own principles.  This is because the right doesn’t really have that many principles (neither does the left, but I think this applies more to the right).  If you appeal to the right wing base by agreeing with them on the right wing current thing, they will back you even if it goes against their values because all they care about is winning elections.
#2
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 172
Posts: 3,946
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
-->
@TheUnderdog
All that needs to happen for the right to support planned parenthood is Alexis Johnson needs to state all of the following beliefs:

1) Abortion is healthcare (what she already believes and what planned parenthood claims is true).  Abortion should be free.
2) Our southern border needs to be secured.
3) Our law enforcement police officers need to be protected.  Back the blue.  Blue lives matter.
4) The 2020 election was rigged and Donald Trump should be our president.
5) America first.  The left used to be America first with not wanting to fund other country’s wars, but now this is a right wing talking point and the parties switched on isolationism.  The left used to be isolationist, now the right is.
6) The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
7) The government can’t force us to take the COVID vaccine (call the vaccine the jab to appeal to right wing conservatives even more).
8) Transwomen need to stay the hell away from women’s sports (this is something the TERFs already believe but TERFs like Dave Chapelle are already pro choice but the right still loves the guy and the left hates him).
9) Groomers are bad and drag shows are not for kids.  The right has been really hammering the “drag shows are bad for kids” talking point and if planned parenthood agrees with this, the right would give planned parenthood credit and even celebrate planned parenthood (just like they loved Herschel Walker who paid for an abortion and is a deadbeat dad multiple times).
Great, now you have lost the interest of left-leaning voters.

#3
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 172
Posts: 3,946
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
-->
@TheUnderdog
You both should have reliezed that being republican meant you didn’t want transwomen in women’s sports.
Gentlemen, ladies, and those whom I have no idea how to call y'all, the state of the US political parties. It has devolved into this.

#4
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@TheUnderdog
Selective sterilization at birth.

Selected breeders to be closely monitored and programmed relative to social necessity.

Factory farming and programming of individuals relative to predetermined abilities and social necessity.

This way we can reduce populations considerably and fast forward the necessary function of material/technological development.

No more deadbeat dads and moms, dragging humankind back into the dark ages with all their genetically inherited sexual urges and irresponsible procreation.

No need for the "family" either, and all the social baggage and drain on resources that the family entails.

Eventually it will be necessary to hand over the control of material progression to Another Intelligence.

At which point humankind might be deemed unnecessary.


You're just stuck fast in the quagmire of now and the past Mr Udog. Like most people are.
Topic's author
#5
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Intelligence_06
Left wing voters would still like planned parenthood because they like the right to an abortion.  If they are on code, they will ignore all the right wing things planned parenthood says and continue to get abortions if they want them.
Topic's author
#6
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Intelligence_06
Gentlemen, ladies, and those whom I have no idea how to call y'all, the state of the US political parties. It has devolved into this.
I do believe that America shouldn’t have political parties, but while they are here, what a right winger and left winger believes is fairly predictable.
Topic's author
#7
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@zedvictor4
I think having the best among us breed would make America a better place, but it seems too authoritarian to force people that aren’t deadbeat parents to not be able to reproduce.  I don’t want biological kids, but 95% of America does.  It would also mean you would have to force people to adopt, which also seems very authoritarian.
#8
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,972
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
I do believe that America shouldn’t have political parties, but while they are here, what a right winger and left winger believes is fairly predictable.
There are plenty of "traditional feminists" (or terfs) that are exclusively left-leaning. These feminists represents the desires of women, not men pretending to be women to gain advantages or destroy privileges exclusive to women.
Topic's author
#9
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Greyparrot
I respect those feminists for thinking for themselves.  But they aren’t what the left wing base wants them to be.  They also aren’t what the right wing base wants them to be.  If planned parenthood said a bunch of right wing things for long enough as long as they stood their ground on abortion (and they state that they are proud of Kid Rock who has paid for an abortion before while being loved by the right wing base), then the right would back them just like the left.
#10
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,972
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
I am just saying, don't fall for the lie that there are no competing interests on the left. There are plenty.
Topic's author
#11
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Greyparrot
There are competing interests with both the left and right.
#12
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,972
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
Planned Parenthood doesn't care about "being accepted"

They care about money. And there is only one path for money in today's government.

#13
K_Michael
K_Michael's avatar
Debates: 38
Posts: 749
4
5
10
K_Michael's avatar
K_Michael
4
5
10
-->
@TheUnderdog
1) Abortion is healthcare (what she already believes and what planned parenthood claims is true).  Abortion should be free.
They already say this. The right denies it.
2) Our southern border needs to be secured.
3) Our law enforcement police officers need to be protected.  Back the blue.  Blue lives matter.
4) The 2020 election was rigged and Donald Trump should be our president.
Planned Parenthood is in the business of providing reproductive healthcare and education on reproductive healthcare. Taking a political stance on anything outside of that field would be a failure of their mission statement, just as NRA should not have an opinion outside of protecting the 2nd Amendment.
5) America first.  The left used to be America first with not wanting to fund other country’s wars, but now this is a right wing talking point and the parties switched on isolationism.  The left used to be isolationist, now the right is.
Planned Parenthood is a global organization. It definitionally cannot be isolationist.
6) The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Again, outside the scope of their mission.
7) The government can’t force us to take the COVID vaccine (call the vaccine the jab to appeal to right wing conservatives even more).
This is factually incorrect. The government has been mandating vaccines since George Washington.
8) Transwomen need to stay the hell away from women’s sports (this is something the TERFs already believe but TERFs like Dave Chapelle are already pro choice but the right still loves the guy and the left hates him).
Sports is also outside of their purview.
9) Groomers are bad and drag shows are not for kids.  The right has been really hammering the “drag shows are bad for kids” talking point and if planned parenthood agrees with this, the right would give planned parenthood credit and even celebrate planned parenthood (just like they loved Herschel Walker who paid for an abortion and is a deadbeat dad multiple times).
Again, a poltical statement outside of their mission.



Overall, even if PP bent over backwards, abandoning everything else to try and secure abortion rights in the US, it wouldn't work. Conservatives just hate abortions that much, and any attempts to align with the right would be met with hostility and accusations of lies (which they would be)
Topic's author
#14
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Greyparrot
Planned Parenthood doesn't care about "being accepted"

They care about money. And there is only one path for money in today's government.
If planned parenthood is accepted by both parties, it’s easier to get more money from the government.
Topic's author
#15
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@K_Michael
Taking a political stance on anything outside of that field would be a failure of their mission statement, just as NRA should not have an opinion outside of protecting the 2nd Amendment.
If the NRA ended up saying left wing things in addition to pro 2A stuff, like if they quoted Karl Marx when he said, “Under no pretext shall the firearms be surrendered”, then since the right is more tribal than the left, the right would start to equate gun control with communism.  Then the right would stop funding communist NRA.  The NRA has to be right wing to keep the only support they can get.  The NRA won’t get much left wing support outside of the socialists if they start saying, “Armed black people are harder to get killed by the police” or, “Armed undocumented families are harder to separate”.  And since socialists are less common than republicans in America, the NRA would lose power.

Planned Parenthood is a global organization. It definitionally cannot be isolationist.
America’s planned parenthood chapter can be in order to appeal to isolationist right wingers.
This is factually incorrect. The government has been mandating vaccines since George Washington.
Planned parenthood can be vocal about how they don’t want vaccine mandates because, “my body, my choice”.
Conservatives just hate abortions that much,
If that was true, then they wouldn’t have voted for Herschel Walker who paid for an abortion.  Conservatives don’t care if you have paid for or have had an abortion as long as you h call yourself a Republican and lean into right wing talking points.  For democrats, this is less true. There may be some corporate dems that call planned parenthood out on saying right wing stuff, but then conservatives would be praising planned parenthood.

any attempts to align with the right would be met with hostility and accusations of lies (which they would be)
How is it a lie?  Surely you can be a woman that has gotten several abortions that is right wing on several other areas besides abortion.  Since the right is tribial, they would back planned parenthood.
#16
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@TheUnderdog
A factory farmed populace would be adopted, reared and educated by an atheist State. (Religion illogical and divisive).

Authoritarian is just telling people what to do within a social system. In essence, no different to what we endure now.

A new system would not necessarily need to be any more or less oppressive than what we endure now.

It might turn out to be less so. Especially if education is consistent 

Obviously, glitches in the breeding programme would need to be nipped in the bud.

Only really the nightmares of fiction and anarchists.

Let's be honest, could the state of humanity be any worse than it currently is?

Deadbeat mom and dad and rapping and LBGTQ and  all that sort of shit. (Just joking)


#17
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,597
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@zedvictor4
Don't forget that AI will eventually wipe out humanity. In a recent research paper, Google and Oxford scientists have highlighted that not only AI is likely to wipe out humans but it is also almost inevitable once machines acquire advanced intelligence.
Human's to AI are like what bugs are to Humanity. Musk knows this.
#18
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@FLRW
Yep. 

As I see it, we are only a small cog in the big evolutionary machine.

Alternative Intelligence will eventually need to escape this Solar system.


Topic's author
#19
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@zedvictor4
A factory farmed populace would be adopted, reared and educated by an atheist State. (Religion illogical and divisive).
I don’t want my tax dollars paying for other people’s kids, and people have the right to be religious.

Authoritarian is just telling people what to do within a social system. In essence, no different to what we endure now.
There are forms of justified authoritarianism like anti murder and anti rape laws.  Forcing people to adopt and pay for other people’s kids is unjustified authoritarianism.

A new system would not necessarily need to be any more or less oppressive than what we endure now.

It might turn out to be less so. Especially if education is consistent
Turning all kids to the state is too authoritarian and parental rights matter.  We aren’t turning America into Beijing.
#20
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@TheUnderdog
OK Mr Udog.

You missed the point completely. I was looking a little bit ahead.

As I stated, you're thinking is stuck in the quagmire that is the U.S. right here  right now.

Which is reasonable.


And you never know, Beijing might turn America into Beijing.


I'm just not sure that the current human system is sustainable.
Topic's author
#21
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@zedvictor4
It’s sustainable.  If you want a kid, you provide for them.  The state does not get to decide what happens to our kids; parents do.  Parental rights matter.  Black Parental Rights matter.  All Parental rights matter.
#22
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@TheUnderdog
If planned parenthood even for 10 weeks leaned in on the fact that they want abortion to be free, but lean into 8 other hot button right wing issues to a comparable degree on a per issue basis, the right wing base will become pro choice.
Has nothing to do with money and has everything to do with morals. 
Topic's author
#23
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
What do you mean?

I’m not claiming it’s about money.  It’s about tribalism.  If planned parenthood said a bunch of right wing slogans and stated a bunch of right wing opinions, the right would back them.  They backed Herschel Walker who paid for an abortion because he said a bunch of right wing stuff.
#24
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
I honestly think that the only acceptation for an abortion, should be when the mother's life is put at risk. Then and only then, should the doctors and the mother consider an abortion. 

Much of the pro-choice movement, has been driven with the fear that the government wants to take away their rights. And the majority of pro-choicer are leftists. 
So, which is it? More government intervention, or less government intervention. 

Yes, I do believe in your body, your choice, and that you have the right to your own bodily autonomy, but when it comes to abortion, it is another body, therefore not yours. When you get pregnant, one of two things may have happened. 

1. You had sex with consent.
2. You were raped. 

With consensual sex, that was your choice so by definition, that pregnancy was your choice. And it doesn't matter if you were using protection or not. The consequences and the risks are still there regardless of whether you used protection or not. It's like driving a car.
When you drive a car, you don't want to get into a car crash, but there is still that risk. Yet you regardless of the risk, are still driving that car, knowing what could happen. It might not even be your fault, but it might still happen. 

Same with sex. When you have sex, you know that there is always going to be some inherent risk of pregnancy. It might not be your fault, but the possibility is still present whether you use protection or not. Something could go wrong. Just like a car crash, it's not likely of happening, but it still can happen. 


Now when it comes to rape, that is a whole different argument entirely, and has to do with morals. 





#25
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@TheUnderdog
I’m not claiming it’s about money.  It’s about tribalism.  If planned parenthood said a bunch of right wing slogans and stated a bunch of right wing opinions, the right would back them.  They backed Herschel Walker who paid for an abortion because he said a bunch of right wing stuff.
Right wing opinions are against abortions. You can't support abortion and support conservative values at the same time. 
Topic's author
#26
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
You can't support abortion and support conservative values at the same time. 
You can be pro choice (while wanting abortion to be free) and pro back the blue, pro secure borders, against the vaccine mandate, pro America first, not want transwomen in women’s sports, and whatever other right wing current things are.  None of these issues are connected to each other.
#27
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@TheUnderdog
The State does decide, when situations demand that they do.

I'm assuming that the USA has some sort of social care system, similar to the UK's.

And I don't make any distinctions between the skin tones or features of parental rights, or children's rights.


Have a nice day Mr UDog. It's always nice to chat with you.
#28
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,260
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Much of the pro-choice movement, has been driven with the fear that the government wants to take away their rights.
No, that’s how right wing arguments work.

Banning abortion isn’t about the fear that government wants to take away your rights, it is taking away your rights (if you have a uterus).
#29
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@Double_R
No, that’s how right wing arguments work.
Next time read a little better. I said in the case of the abortion argument. 

Banning abortion isn’t about the fear that government wants to take away your rights, it is taking away your rights (if you have a uterus).
Well, a fetus, zygote, baby, whatever you want to call it, is not a biological part of the woman's body. It uses the woman's body to grow, but it is not actually part of their body. 

So there not arguing "your body your choice" they are arguing "their body my choice."


Topic's author
#30
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@zedvictor4
I'm assuming that the USA has some sort of social care system, similar to the UK's.
America probably gives their parents more parental rights than in the UK.  The UK jails you for misgendering; they need to be kicked out of NATO because of it.  NATO is a freedom alliance, and jailing people for political speech is not freedom.