Posts

Total: 78
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,060
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@TWS1405_2
3/5 compromise was a legal measure that gave some whites privilege over other whites. It had absolutely nothing to do with the level of representation of blacks.

Basic concept here.
TWS1405_2
TWS1405_2's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 2,186
3
3
7
TWS1405_2's avatar
TWS1405_2
3
3
7
-->
@Greyparrot
@Double_R
First and foremost, this asinine claim of “white privilege” existing is absurd. Anyone who purports this garbage must acknowledge and accept that there is then black privilege, Asian privilege, brown privilege, India(n) privilege, Native Indian privilege, Eskimo privilege, Middle Eastern privilege, Arabian privilege, so on and so forth. You cannot have one without having all the others. 

Second, again, ad nauseum, the 3/5ths compromise had absolutely nothing to do with so-called “white privilege” and everything to do with congressional representation given the overwhelming fact that the population in the North exceeded the population in the South. The Southerners wanted equal representation in Congress and given the fact that Congress was not counting slaves in said representation, they demanded that they did. Hence the compromise. Had the South had equal numbers in white (and other, other than slaves) populations, the 3/5ths compromise wouldn’t have come to fruition. 

Third, blacks owned slaves too; an obvious inconvenient fact that Double-R ignored when I mentioned it (no surprise). The very FIRST legally recognized slave owner in North America was a black slave owner.  All equally benefited from the 3/5ths compromise for Congressional representation as every other Southerner. A glaring fact that squashes the so-called claim of white privilege being ascribed to that compromise. Fact is, what few so-called “whites” that owned slaves were clearly not the only ones who did so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_slave_owners

Fourth, your dumbed down post only benefited you, @Double_R. Stupid is as stupid does in order to comprehend stupid. 

Fifth, the 3/5ths compromise had nothing to do with counting slaves in the census as actual persons, you flippant ignoramus. Freed slaves (free population) were counted as persons. Whole persons. Not 1/5th, 2/5th or 3/5ths a person. But persons in their entirety who gets representation just the same (@Greyparrot). For your edification, again: “Three-fifths compromise, compromise agreement between delegates from the Northern and the Southern states at the United States Constitutional Convention (1787) that three-fifths of the slave population would be counted for determining direct taxation and representation in the House of Representatives.”

Last but not least, it is patently clear that far too many commenting in this thread (as they did in my thread(s) on this subject) simply lack the requisite knowledge to even interject themselves in said discussion. As such, it makes you all no better (even worse) than uneducated lefties on this subject. The liberal talking points just paint you as the poster child for the Dunning Kruger Effect. It’s rather narcissist, really. Pure intellectual cowardice with the inability to admit you’re wrong and doubling down on your ignorance is just pathetic.
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,287
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
You didn't specify where in America, and that's a huge oversight.
That wasn’t an oversight, that was the point.

I specifically stated “location unknown” to make you think about the broad circumstances within the country as opposed to doing what you predictably did; found some pocket somewhere in America where black people didn’t have it that bad to make it seem like that is somehow reflective of the rest of the country.

The only questionI have is why? Why pretend you don’t know any better? Why pretend it’s a difficult choice as to whether you would rather go back to pre civil war America as a black man or a white man? Are you really that partisan and that deluded to think this is a difficult choice?
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,060
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
Well, we already know in the 1800's, if you could pass for white, you nearly always claimed white. In 2023, and ever since the Obama days, if you could pass for black, you most certainly identified as black nearly every time.

That is the privileged state today.
TWS1405_2
TWS1405_2's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 2,186
3
3
7
TWS1405_2's avatar
TWS1405_2
3
3
7
-->
@Double_R
Ignoring my comments and the truths they convey = silence which = concession to those truths. Proves you don’t know what you’re talking about. So thank you for that concession. Speaks volumes within it even saying (posting) a word. 
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,287
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@TWS1405_2
First and foremost, this asinine claim of “white privilege” existing is absurd. Anyone who purports this garbage must acknowledge and accept that there is then black privilege, Asian privilege, brown privilege, India(n) privilege, Native Indian privilege, Eskimo privilege, Middle Eastern privilege, Arabian privilege, so on and so forth. You cannot have one without having all the others. 
Thank you for demonstrating that you have no idea what privilege means.

the 3/5ths compromise had absolutely nothing to do with so-called “white privilege” and everything to do with congressional representation
Clearly, you didn’t bother to read a word of what I said.

As I already explained, the reason for bringing up the compromise was not to argue that the compromise itself somehow benefited white people, it was to demonstrate how absurdly unequally our nation treated individuals primarily based on their skin color. It is all the proof any rational individual needs to recognize that there certainly existed white privileged in this country.

Continuing to strawman that point is not a rebuttal.

the 3/5ths compromise had nothing to do with counting slaves in the census as actual persons, you flippant ignoramus.
Enlighten me… How did the government count the number of slaves who lived in each state in order to determine proper congressional representation and proper taxation?

Fourth, your dumbed down post only benefited you, @Double_R. Stupid is as stupid does in order to comprehend stupid.
Calling me stupid is not a valid argument. Clearly you do not plan on answering the question, I suspect because you know what a ridiculous proposition it is to suggest that anyone would rather go back to 1800’s America as a black person instead of a white person.

So keep dodging it all day long, every person reading this knows what your answer would be.

Third, blacks owned slaves too; an obvious inconvenient fact that Double-R ignored when I mentioned it (no surprise).
I ignored it because it’s a nonsense argument. It’s a common tactic by those who are just plain wrong to try and save face by taking an obscure exception and misrepresenting it as the norm in order to try and paint a false narrative of reality.

In 1830 the percentage of slaves who had black masters was approximately 0.6%, and many of those masters were of mixed race. The idea that we should be talking about this fact in the context of understanding whether white privilege existed in this country is patently absurd.

Ignoring my comments and the truths they convey = silence which = concession to those truths. Proves you don’t know what you’re talking about. So thank you for that concession.
lol wow someone is full of themselves.

Sorry to break your ego stroking “I owned the lib” session here, turns out I actually have a job and can’t sit on this site all day long. I respond when I can get to it. I know, shocking.

Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,060
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
in order to determine proper congressional representation and proper taxation?
Allow me to enlighten you. Slaves were neither represented, nor taxed. What the 3/5 compromise ensured was that privileged white slave owners would have power over northern white victims. Also ensuring the north paid more taxes with less representation per taxed person.

Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,287
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
Well, we already know in the 1800's, if you could pass for white, you nearly always claimed white.
Yeah no shit, because it was a privilege to be white.

In 2023, and ever since the Obama days, if you could pass for black, you most certainly identified as black nearly every time.
Maybe if you’re trying to pass as something other than a lame white boy, but either way that’s highly debatable. The first point isn’t.
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,287
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
Allow me to enlighten you. Slaves were neither represented, nor taxed. What the 3/5 compromise ensured was that privileged white slave owners would have power over northern white victims. Also ensuring the north paid more taxes.
Failed attempt. I asked how they were counted, since your boy here seems to think the census has boring to do with this.

Beyond that, I’ve already explained this numerous times. I never said the compromise itself benefited white people, I am pointing to the fact that it was needed as a demonstration of the fact that white privileged existed in this country. Under no circumstances in a country where there was not a significant privilege for one group would we debate whether to count certain “other” individuals as full people. Why is that so difficult for you? What part of this do you need me to explain?
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,060
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
Maybe if you’re trying to pass as something other than a lame white boy, but either way that’s highly debatable
Not really. There was no possible way Obama would have been president as a lame ass white boy. Feel free to debate that though.
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
When did white privilege end?

Well, it's a fairly simple answer, but what part of the world are we talking about necessarily.
Since the United States of America has the stereotype and the history of being so called "racist" I will use the USA as an example.

It's simple:
White privilege in the USA ended, when the law forbade privileges in the law to be based on the color of your skin. It ended when the law was equal for all people, regardless of their skin color. So, I would say it ended fairly closer to the civil rights movement. 
TWS1405_2
TWS1405_2's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 2,186
3
3
7
TWS1405_2's avatar
TWS1405_2
3
3
7
-->
@Double_R
First and foremost, this asinine claim of “white privilege” existing is absurd. Anyone who purports this garbage must acknowledge and accept that there is then black privilege, Asian privilege, brown privilege, India(n) privilege, Native Indian privilege, Eskimo privilege, Middle Eastern privilege, Arabian privilege, so on and so forth. You cannot have one without having all the others. 
Thank you for demonstrating that you have no idea what privilege means.
BWAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAA!!! Thanks for proving just how ignorant you are of the subject matter!!! LOL!!!! 


the 3/5ths compromise had absolutely nothing to do with so-called “white privilege” and everything to do with congressional representation
Clearly, you didn’t bother to read a word of what I said.

As I already explained, the reason for bringing up the compromise was not to argue that the compromise itself somehow benefited white people, it was to demonstrate how absurdly unequally our nation treated individuals primarily based on their skin color. It is all the proof any rational individual needs to recognize that there certainly existed white privileged in this country.

Continuing to strawman that point is not a rebuttal.

BWAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAA!!!! You clearly do not know what a strawman argument is!!!! AND you continue to DENY the FUCKING FACTS as I presented (and cited sources backing them up)!!!!!!!

And you’re one to talk about strawman when you quoted out of context and proceeded to create nothing but a strawman argument. Fucking idiot. 


the 3/5ths compromise had nothing to do with counting slaves in the census as actual persons, you flippant ignoramus.
Enlighten me… How did the government count the number of slaves who lived in each state in order to determine proper congressional representation and proper taxation?

Already cited more than one source, all of which you fucking ignored. Fucking typical for an ignorant intellectual coward. 


Fourth, your dumbed down post only benefited you, @Double_R. Stupid is as stupid does in order to comprehend stupid.
Calling me stupid is not a valid argument. Clearly you do not plan on answering the question, I suspect because you know what a ridiculous proposition it is to suggest that anyone would rather go back to 1800’s America as a black person instead of a white person.

So keep dodging it all day long, every person reading this knows what your answer would be.
I did not call you, personally, stupid. The term was used as an adjective, not a noun. FFS, way to demonstrate your lack of reading comprehension skills there DR! LOL!!!!

Present day is 2023, not the 1800s you clown. Get with the program or get off the train. JFC!

Third, blacks owned slaves too; an obvious inconvenient fact that Double-R ignored when I mentioned it (no surprise).
I ignored it because it’s a nonsense argument. It’s a common tactic by those who are just plain wrong to try and save face by taking an obscure exception and misrepresenting it as the norm in order to try and paint a false narrative of reality.

In 1830 the percentage of slaves who had black masters was approximately 0.6%, and many of those masters were of mixed race. The idea that we should be talking about this fact in the context of understanding whether white privilege existed in this country is patently absurd.
Oh, so FACTS are “nonsense arguments” now are they! JFC!!! Again, way to demonstrate what an incompetent denialist fool you are. 


Ignoring my comments and the truths they convey = silence which = concession to those truths. Proves you don’t know what you’re talking about. So thank you for that concession.
lol wow someone is full of themselves. 

Sorry to break your ego stroking “I owned the lib” session here, turns out I actually have a job and can’t sit on this site all day long. I respond when I can get to it. I know, shocking.


NOt full of myself, I just know I am factually accurate and you are factually inaccurate. 

I could care less if you have a job, because you clearly found time to reply to GP first who really doesn’t even oppose you as strong as I. You’re just an intellectual coward. Incapable of owning his mistakes. Incapable of any measure of dignity to acknowledge your obvious lack of knowledge of the subject.

Yes, I am a dick and very forward on these controversial subjects. So what! It is because I know what the fuck I am talking about. I have three decades of research on black history in the Americas. You do not. All you have is the MSM talking points. Pure garbage. Take it out to the curb and learn something legit for once in your life regarding black history and the FACT that white privilege just does not fucking exist. 
TWS1405_2
TWS1405_2's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 2,186
3
3
7
TWS1405_2's avatar
TWS1405_2
3
3
7
-->
@Double_R
Well, we already know in the 1800's, if you could pass for white, you nearly always claimed white.
Yeah no shit, because it was a privilege to be white.

Tell that to the Irish, among other whites considered poor and beneath the entitled bourgeoisie and elitists of the time. 

Again, demonstrating your ignorance of the subject matter. 
TWS1405_2
TWS1405_2's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 2,186
3
3
7
TWS1405_2's avatar
TWS1405_2
3
3
7

Oprah is now griping about this bullshit white privilege. 
TWS1405_2
TWS1405_2's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 2,186
3
3
7
TWS1405_2's avatar
TWS1405_2
3
3
7
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,287
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@TWS1405_2
Yes, I am a dick and very forward on these controversial subjects.
Wow, such strength behind that keyboard. How admirable.

So what! It is because I know what the fuck I am talking about.
If you did then you would talk about it instead of spending your entire post throwing childish insults and pumping your chest. Notice how you didn’t respond with a single word of substance anywhere, and will no doubt have the nerve to pretend it’s because I’m the one not worthy of serious discussion. What a joke.
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,287
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
It's simple:
White privilege in the USA ended, when the law forbade privileges in the law to be based on the color of your skin. It ended when the law was equal for all people, regardless of their skin color.
So just to be clear, employers who, say, hate black people and therefore refuse to hire them, all of a sudden treat black candidates just as favorably as white candidates because the law says they have to. Is that correct?
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@Double_R
So just to be clear, employers who, say, hate black people and therefore refuse to hire them, all of a sudden treat black candidates just as favorably as white candidates because the law says they have to. Is that correct?
What can you say?
Laws have a big effect on people. 

Of course people are still racist. Racism will always exist, but by definition, white privilege is when white people, have more privilege's over other races. That hasn't been a thing in a pretty long time.

Your question is about racism. Not white privilege. 
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,060
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@TWS1405_2
I think you are being too harsh on DoubleR.

He rarely engages in adhom arguments, and usually argues in good faith.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,060
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
So just to be clear, employers who, say, hate black people and therefore refuse to hire them, all of a sudden treat black candidates just as favorably as white candidates because the law says they have to. Is that correct?
It's a sticky point, the difference between de-jure equality and de-facto equality.

While there are examples you can show on your side, I can show as many if not more on the other side, especially in employment opportunities in entertainment and academic careers. I think the solution to promoting de-facto equality would be to eliminate the advantages on both sides.

Agree?
cristo71
cristo71's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,569
3
2
3
cristo71's avatar
cristo71
3
2
3
-->
@TWS1405_2
By definition, Oprah does lack white privilege. However, she possesses all these other types of privilege, perhaps even more:

Exorbitant wealth
Celebrity
IQ
US citizenship
Heterosexual
Cisgender
Female
Black
Able-bodied
Sentient
Alive

When put into the larger context of privilege, her investigation into white privilege in isolation appears petty and intentionally misleading.
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,287
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Your question is about racism. Not white privilege. 
They’re not separate things.

If you live in a society that overall treats you lesser because of the color of your skin then you are disadvantaged because you will not get the same benefits and considerations as others.

You’re trying to limit what qualifies as privilege to a matter of legal rights but that is nothing more than a technical disqualification. In real life, living in a world where people see you a certain way and judge you differently is going to have a negative impact on your empirical well being.

So at the end of the day you can define it and qualify it however you want, but when the rest of us talk about white privilege we’re talking about everything, not just the corner that you carved out.
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,287
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
While there are examples you can show on your side, I can show as many if not more on the other side, especially in employment opportunities in entertainment and academic careers. I think the solution to promoting de-facto equality would be to eliminate the advantages on both sides.

Agree?
No.

One can always cherry pick certain pockets where black people in general have an advantage, the question is about the overall picture. Again, if you were to die today and be reincarnated tomorrow, would you rather be brought back into this world as a white person or black person?

This is much like the question I posed earlier, and just like in that example if we have to search for examples where black people are in an even playing field or better that kind of proves the point. No such search is necessary to justify choosing to be white.

For whatever it’s worth I don’t think white privilege today is anything near what it was even a decade ago let alone throughout the previous century. We’ve came a long way and I think of it today more in terms of a legacy thing. A child born into a wealthy family is far more likely to grow up wealthy than a child who is not, and it’s clear who’s doing better overall there. 


Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,060
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
In today's world 100% I would want to be identified as a black person without hesitation. I would try hard to resist the urge to abuse the privilege modern society bestows upon me due to my skin color.

America right now is in an openly admitted apartheid where 14% of the population dominate every discussion and are listened and valued above any other. For the 1st time in all of American History, 2 people, Kamala and Justice Jackson were openly selected due to the color of their skin.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,060
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
and it’s clear who’s doing better overall there. 
The ones growing up with a father in the home? Not surprising at all.

If I were to come back as a black man, I would demand a 2 parent nuclear family.
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@Greyparrot
I would try hard to resist the urge to abuse the privilege modern society bestows upon me due to my skin color.
Can you expound on this, specifically?
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,287
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
America right now is in an openly admitted apartheid where 14% of the population dominate every discussion and are listened and valued above any other.
They may dominate every political discussion but white people still dominate every lucrative profession. You think black office workers are feeling the strength of their domination?
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,060
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
 You think black office workers are feeling the strength of their domination?
The ones from 2 parent homes sure as hell are.
TWS1405_2
TWS1405_2's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 2,186
3
3
7
TWS1405_2's avatar
TWS1405_2
3
3
7
-->
@Double_R
So what! It is because I know what the fuck I am talking about.
If you did then you would talk about it instead of spending your entire post throwing childish insults and pumping your chest. 

Typical denialist intellectual coward response. 

I have talked about it in more than one post and across two threads I started. You’re the one being childish with your evasive tactics, strawman arguments and other logical fallacious committed. 

Put up or shut up. Your banal sophomoric denialism is beyond getting old. 
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,287
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@TWS1405_2
If you did then you would talk about it instead of spending your entire post throwing childish insults and pumping your chest. 
Typical denialist intellectual coward response. 
I would respond if you gave me something to respond to. Not one sentence in your entire post was about the substance of any issue raised in this thread. Now you claim I’m being evasive without any mention of what I evaded, you claim I’m engaging in strawman arguments without one clarification of your position, and that I’m engaging in logical fallacies without one example.

You’re not a serious individual.