What Kind of Mother Was Mary?

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#1
Stephen
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 What kind of mother would go joyously bounding off in jubilation and excitement to tell her cousin the good news that she was going to have a baby from god that was going to be hunted down, betrayed and arrested and put on trial  and then beaten senseless and then nailed to a cross to die an agonising death? 

And what kind of Mother would lose her holy god- given charge for four whole days and didn't even notice him missing at all for the first  whole day?
#2
Sidewalker
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Stephen, I don't know why I assumed all your "acting out" was about your father, but now I'm thinking it's your mother that is religious and you are afraid to talk to her about it.  

So the religious people on the boards, they your momma?
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#3
Stephen
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@Sidewalker
 but now I'm thinking it's your mother

 No, you are wrong.. again.  Mary was Jesus' mother not mine.

Would you say that "Mary, blessed among all women" was a good mother?  And can you understand this women's excitement and jubilation at being told that she was to give birth to gods son that would be hunted down, betrayed and arrested and put on trial  and then beaten senseless and then nailed to a cross to die an agonising death? 
Or have I misunderstood something?

And is it a good mother that wouldn't even notice her god given child was missing at all for the  whole day? And that didn't find him for 4 days!?
 Take your time.




#4
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Who's your Daddy?

Not me.

Don't be so afraid, talk to whoever it is got you so upset.
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#5
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@Sidewalker
Who's your Daddy?

Irrelevant.

But the Father of Jesus was the acting Gabriel, a priest. It was he , it appears, that had raped the very young maiden Mary. Poor girl didn't know what was going on. She had no say in the matter.  But she  appears to have come to terms with the idea of having to be the unwilling receptor and vessel of the holy sperm of the priest Gabriel.
Maybe this is why she was such a poor mother. And maybe the answer to the question of why Mary was so excited knowing that the chid that she was forced to carry and give birth to  was going to  suffer a cruel torture and death for the sins of his father, Gabriel?

I hope that helps.
#6
Sidewalker
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Who's your Daddy?

Irrelevant.

But the Father of Jesus was the acting Gabriel, a priest. It was he , it appears, that had raped the very young maiden Mary. Poor girl didn't know what was going on. She had no say in the matter.  But she  appears to have come to terms with the idea of having to be the unwilling receptor and vessel of the holy sperm of the priest Gabriel.
Maybe this is why she was such a poor mother. And maybe the answer to the question of why Mary was so excited knowing that the chid that she was forced to carry and give birth to  was going to  suffer a cruel torture and death for the sins of his father, Gabriel?

I hope that helps.
You need to whine at somebody who gives a crap.

If you are just too afraid to talk to the religious person that you are so upset with, maybe try therapy.

I hope that helps.


#7
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@Stephen
From a r/Atheism post:

2000 years ago women were treated in the area that is now Palestine/ Israel as badly as they are treated in some Moslem countries nowadays. At that time the area was part of the Roman empire and the locals were treated badly, especially women. If Mary was about 14 when she conceived, it is MUCH more likely that she was raped by a Roman soldier than having been impregnated by the Holy Spirit. Joseph, married her, with the story of the holy spirit, to save her from a death by stoning. If this was the case, he is one of the most decent men in the Bible.
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#8
Stephen
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@Sidewalker
Who's your Daddy?

Irrelevant.

But the Father of Jesus was the acting Gabriel, a priest. It was he , it appears, that had raped the very young maiden Mary. Poor girl didn't know what was going on. She had no say in the matter.  But she  appears to have come to terms with the idea of having to be the unwilling receptor and vessel of the holy sperm of the priest Gabriel.
Maybe this is why she was such a poor mother. And maybe the answer to the question of why Mary was so excited knowing that the chid that she was forced to carry and give birth to  was going to  suffer a cruel torture and death for the sins of his father, Gabriel?

I hope that helps.
You need to whine at somebody who gives a crap.
I'm not "whining".  I am  highlighting the fact that this extremely young rape victim , Mary,  displayed some very strange behaviour on realising that the baby she had conceived against her will and would be forced to carry for nine months seemed very elated on learning that this bastard child  would suffer and die a very cruel death.





#9
FLRW
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My guess is that Mary and her local priest had consensual sex and they came up with the "God did it".
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#10
Stephen
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@FLRW
My guess is that Mary and her local priest had consensual sex and they came up with the "God did it".

There maybe a bit of truth in that, FLRW.  But it is debateable if the child was a willing participant.
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@Stephen
@Sidewalker


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Stephen,

First thing, Jesus in prayer last night told me to tell you to not bother with the Hell bound Bible inept "Sidewalker" that doesn't comprehend why Christians cannot accept the theory of evolution, where he postulates that evolution does not contradict the Christian faith nor the basic tenets of Christianity!!!  I tried too get through to him that he was making a fool of himself in taking his position, but it was all for naught as shown in this link: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8366/post-links/362869. ...... Let us let him be stupid on his own time.


Now, for Mary being spiritually impregnated by her own Son Jesus through celestial incest, where Jesus was not only her son, but His own Father as God, and then Jesus being a bastard child through true Hebrew tradition because Joseph was NOT His paternal father, is a sad foundation to the start of Christianity, wouldn't you say?  :(   

Besides, Mary was a LEVITE through her cousin Elizabeth that you mentioned, and therefore Mary was not from the house of David as a prerequisite for Jesus to become the Messiah (Romans 1:3 & Acts 2:30), whereas this only adds further complications for Mary, as if the ones you mentioned weren't enough!

. 
#12
K_Michael
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@Stephen
that was going to be hunted down, betrayed and arrested and put on trial  and then beaten senseless and then nailed to a cross to die an agonising death? 
She didn't know that any of that was going to happen. She was told
“Don’t be afraid, Mary. You have found favor [a] with God.
31 You will become pregnant, give birth to a son,
and name him Jesus.
32 He will be a great man
and will be called the Son of the Most High.
The Lord God will give him
the throne of his ancestor David.
33 Your son will be king of Jacob’s people forever,
and his kingdom will never end.”
(Luke 1:30-33)

That sounds pretty worthy of celebration to me.
#13
BrotherD.Thomas
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K_Michael,

The part of your bible statement is the problem that Jesus, being God to begin with (1 Timothy 2:5), can't give Himself the throne of David because He is NOT an ancestor to David to begin with because Jesus had to be from the flesh of King David (Romans 1:3 & Acts 2:30).  But, Mary was a LEVITE, as fully explained within the scriptures,  that delivered Jesus. Therefore, since Joseph had nothing to do with the "Virgin Birth," who was from the line of David, then Jesus celestially impregnating His own mother through spiritual incest, cannot be from the flesh of King David, and therefore He is not the Messiah as well, period!  

Poor Jesus gets such a bad reputation when one actually READS THE BIBLE. Sad indeed. :(

.



#14
YouFound_Lxam
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The part of your bible statement is the problem that Jesus, being God to begin with (1 Timothy 2:5), can't give Himself the throne of David because He is NOT an ancestor to David to begin with because Jesus had to be from the flesh of King David (Romans 1:3 & Acts 2:30).  But, Mary was a LEVITE, as fully explained within the scriptures,  that delivered Jesus. Therefore, since Joseph had nothing to do with the "Virgin Birth," who was from the line of David, then Jesus celestially impregnating His own mother through spiritual incest, cannot be from the flesh of King David, and therefore He is not the Messiah as well, period!  

Poor Jesus gets such a bad reputation when one actually READS THE BIBLE. Sad indeed. :(
If you don't believe Jesus to be the Messiah, then you are in fact not a Christian, Brother D. 

You follow Judaism instead. 
#15
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@BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas and Stephen, enough of your courtship ritual, get a room.

You're just boring the shit out of everyone. 
#16
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@BrotherDThomas
I'm not "whining".  I am  highlighting the fact that this extremely young rape victim , Mary,  displayed some very strange behaviour on realising that the baby she had conceived against her will and would be forced to carry for nine months seemed very elated on learning that this bastard child  would suffer and die a very cruel death
You and BrotherD really get off on this, in fact, you have an erection now, don't you.

It's time for you and BrotherD to go take a shower.
#17
Sidewalker
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@BrotherD.Thomas
In his seminal book The Quest of the Historical Jesus, Albert Schweitzer pointed out how the image of Jesus image had changed to reflect the times and the personal proclivities of the various authors that had addressed the subject.  He wrote that looking for a human Jesus is like looking down a well. "You’re inclined to see your own reflection in the water." Schweitzer showed explicitly that people use the gospels as a mirror for their own beliefs, projecting their own values onto the subject and in the end, reconstructing Jesus in their own self-images.

I'm sorry, but this obsession you and Stephen have with sexually fantasizing sons with thier mothers, that is just beyond creepy.  


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#18
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@K_Michael
that was going to be hunted down, betrayed and arrested and put on trial  and then beaten senseless and then nailed to a cross to die an agonising death? 
She didn't know that any of that was going to happen. She was told

“Don’t be afraid, Mary. You have found favor  with God.31
 You will become pregnant, give birth to a son, and name him Jesus.32
 He will be a great man and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his ancestor David.33
 Your son will be king of Jacob’s people forever, and his kingdom will never end.”(Luke 1:30-33)

That sounds pretty worthy of celebration to me.

 Yes. It does sound worthy of celebration. But none of that came to fruition, did it.

What actually happened instead was that her holy child was hunted, betrayed and arrested and put on trial  and then beaten senseless and then nailed to a cross to die an agonising death, if the bible is to be believed.   And if as you say, "she didn't know",  then don't you think that this was  a cruel and deceitful promise to make to a mother while keeping from her the truth of her sons cruel torturous demise at such a young at age? 


#19
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@FLRW
Yep, two logical theories.


Or you can just pop down to your local church on a Sunday morning and listen to a deluded nut job tell you what a bad boy you've been.


Choices Choices.


#20
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@Stephen
If you hang around people from 3rd world countries, you would see they often seem to have very little regard for the safety of their children. Whenever I live near Hispanics they always are letting their 5 year old children play in the middle of the road with their only supervision being their 12 year old siblings. 

I am not sure why the mentality is different. Perhaps they generally just want to raise tougher children, maybe they really do care less about their children, but Mary from your description seems typical of your typical impoverished woman. 
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Stephen
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@PREZ-HILTON
If you hang around people from 3rd world countries, you would see they often seem to have very little regard for the safety of their children. Whenever I live near Hispanics they always are letting their 5 year old children play in the middle of the road with their only supervision being their 12 year old siblings. 

I am not sure why the mentality is different. Perhaps they generally just want to raise tougher children, maybe they really do care less about their children, but Mary from your description seems typical of your typical impoverished woman. 
Perhaps under any other circumstances, I would agree that you may have a valid point, WyIted.

But this young maiden was chosen above all women on earth to conceive, bare and give birth to the son of a god!  How could god get so much wrong.?
He didn't fulfil the promises made to his mother Mary, the "blessed among all women" concerning this holy child. And he chose a neglectful  "blessed among women" to have his child  given that she failed even to notice him missing for a whole day and didn't recover him for four days.

God also seemed to have omitted to tell this "blessed among all women " on earth , that her son - her holy child would be hunted, betrayed , arrested and put on trial  and then beaten senseless and then nailed to a cross to die an agonising death at such a young age.

I suppose she can be thankful that they didn't break both his legs with repeated swings of wooden clubs across his holy shins, as happened to the other two seditionist rebels. Thank god for small mercies. eh, WyIted
#22
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I once got into an argument with a priest about Young Jesus in the temple.

First there’s a different historical context regarding travel times. Putting into todays terms: she loaded up the minivan with her kids, then after buckling them in one snuck out. She backtracked and picked him up a couple hours later.

Presumably, God chose her knowing this would happen, and that Jesus needed to learn some import lessons. Such as don’t make your mother worry…
#23
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@Barney
"Jesus needed to learn some import lessons. Such as don’t make your mother worry"

Jesus most certainly learned that.

Usually, if you dont want to make your mother worry, then you might come to conclusion that you shouldnt go around the country breaking laws and insulting entire crowds of people daring them to beat you up.

But I guess Jesus had a different opinion on this matter.

I am pretty sure Jesus's mother Mary was not worried at all about his 3 day nailment that followed.

"Jesus needed to learn some import lessons."

Yes, he was God, but not full God, but a little God that was still God, but not God at full power or full omniscience.
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@Sidewalker

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Sidewalker,

YOUR CHILD-LIKE QUOTES IN YOU RUNNING AWAY FROM YOU BEING BIBLE IGNORANT TO CHRISTIANS AND EVOLUTION:

"I'm sorry, but this obsession you and Stephen have with sexually fantasizing sons with thier mothers, that is just beyond creepy."
"You and BrotherD really get off on this, in fact, you have an erection now, don't you."
"BrotherD.Thomas and Stephen, enough of your courtship ritual, get a room."

Uh, is the above your final answer in you not being able to understand that pseudo-christians CANNOT, and I repeat, CANNOT accept evolution like you stupidly say they should?  Your quotes above are nothing but a diversion tactic to hide behind because you still don't comprehend that pseudo-christians and evolution are like oil and water, they don't mix!  Get it? Maybe? Maybe tomorrow?  LOL!

What will be your next diversionary tactic to the FACT that you were made the fool as shown in the link below?

.


#25
Sidewalker
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@BrotherD.Thomas
YOUR CHILD-LIKE QUOTES IN YOU RUNNING AWAY FROM YOU BEING BIBLE IGNORANT TO CHRISTIANS AND EVOLUTION:

"I'm sorry, but this obsession you and Stephen have with sexually fantasizing sons with thier mothers, that is just beyond creepy."
"You and BrotherD really get off on this, in fact, you have an erection now, don't you."
"BrotherD.Thomas and Stephen, enough of your courtship ritual, get a room."

Uh, is the above your final answer in you not being able to understand that pseudo-christians CANNOT, and I repeat, CANNOT accept evolution like you stupidly say they should?  Your quotes above are nothing but a diversion tactic to hide behind because you still don't comprehend that pseudo-christians and evolution are like oil and water, they don't mix!  Get it? Maybe? Maybe tomorrow?  LOL!
Evolution is a completely different conversation, I am commenting on your  sexual fantasies about mothers and sons, it's creepy as hell. 

Regarding evolution, I think you are an idiot, and regarding your mother, I think you are a pervert.


What will be your next diversionary tactic to the FACT that you were made the fool as shown in the link below?
Yeah, I got it, you are mentally incapable of grasping  anything intellectually deeper than literalism, so I accept that you are simply unable to have an intelligent conversation about evolution or the Bible.   

But the pervert side, that has nothing to do with your low IQ, it's just about being creepy.  
#26
YouFound_Lxam
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@Stephen
But this young maiden was chosen above all women on earth to conceive, bare and give birth to the son of a god!  How could god get so much wrong.?
He didn't fulfil the promises made to his mother Mary, the "blessed among all women" concerning this holy child. And he chose a neglectful  "blessed among women" to have his child  given that she failed even to notice him missing for a whole day and didn't recover him for four days.
You're looking at it from a worldly standpoint. Blessed does not always mean physically blessed. How do you know he was not talking about eternally blessed in a different way?
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#27
Stephen
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@YouFound_Lxam
But this young maiden was chosen above all women on earth to conceive, bare and give birth to the son of a god!  How could god get so much wrong.?
He didn't fulfil the promises made to his mother Mary, the "blessed among all women" concerning this holy child. And he chose a neglectful  "blessed among women" to have his child  given that she failed even to notice him missing for a whole day and didn't recover him for four days.
 How do you know he was not talking about eternally blessed in a different way?

How do you know he was talking about anything other than the way it is presented in scripture.? 
And blessed or not, it is still a very neglectful thing to do isn't it. Lose a child from god for four days  and not even notice  him missing for a whole day.


You're looking at it from a worldly standpoint.

Nope. I am reading it as it is presented to us in the BIBLE. Young maiden taken against he will. The Gabriel says - there there don't worry, your son will be a king and sit on a throne and rule over a kingdom that will last forever. This of course never happens. Jesus doesn't get a sniff of the throne of David or anyone else's come to that.

And what this raping angel  forgets to tell this young maiden is that her son will suffer a cruel vicious and torturous death.



#28
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@Sidewalker


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Sidewalker, the KING of child -like NON-SEQUITURS! LOL!


YOUR FIRST QUOTE OF DESPAIR: "I don't like to feed trolls, and I don't believe you are a Christian  .....  Nevertheless, I think it is a very weak faith that is threatened by the theory of evolution."

Whoops!  You are now a HYPOCRITE to your quote above, where you are continually feeding my "alleged" troll status, of which I am not as shown in other posts, but because Jesus and I have made you the outright fool on your quote above that you say Christianity is very weak that is threatened by the theory of evolution, I had to correct you upon your stupidity in this link: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8366/post-links/362869  You now have to resort in running away from your HUGE mistakes as listed above, and as shown in your child-like posts  below:


Are you any relation to the #1 Bible fool Miss Tradesecret?  I ask this, because she uses the same tactics when I easily Bible Slap her Silly®️ all the time, where she too uses non-sequiturs to "try" and get herself out of being the Bible fool, just like you are doing with your sexual innuendoes where you seem to be slipping on your Freudian where it is relating to YOU! ROFLOL!


SIDEWALKER: Now, put your further runaway from the FACTS diversion tactics of more non sequitur sexual innuendoes in your follow up post to this one, as you continually run away from your quote above, ready?

BEGIN: 


NEXT RUNAWAY FROM THE FACTS EQUAL TO "SIDEWALKER" REMOVING ONE FOOT FROM HIS MOUTH TO INSERT THE OTHER REGARDING CHRISTIANS AND EVOLUTION, WILL BE ... ?  LOL!

.
#29
K_Michael
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@Stephen
don't you think that this was  a cruel and deceitful promise to make to a mother while keeping from her the truth of her sons cruel torturous demise at such a young at age? 
The original question was what kind of mother Mary was to celebrate her son's inevitable suffering. I answered this by showing how she didn't know. It's not my fault Christianity is a terrible religion.
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#30
Stephen
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@K_Michael
don't you think that this was  a cruel and deceitful promise to make to a mother while keeping from her the truth of her sons cruel torturous demise at such a young at age? 
The original question was what kind of mother Mary was to celebrate her son's inevitable suffering.

Well of course I was going on the assumption that the angel of god would have  told this young girl the whole truth., but which as you suggest, god obviously had decided to keep from her the gory details of her son's demise and instead chose to make  promises to her concerning things that was never going to happen. All rather cruel , don't you think.
He could have simply said said to her ,

" Like it or not you, have drawn the short straw and you are having my son and that is that.  So be thankful that I chose you . Now off you go and tell your cousin Elizabeth  your good news."



I answered this by showing how she didn't know.

As I explained above, I was under the assumption that god would have been honest and truthful with the specially chosen above all women.


It's not my fault Christianity is a terrible religion.

And  in no way am I blaming you for anything at all, K_Michael. 

But I have found that it is  the genuine and simple questions such as I posed above in my OP #1 that brings out the true colours and nature of the "turn the other cheek, love thy neighbour & charitable", Christians.