Yule vs. Christmas

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#1

Polytheist-Witch

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Polytheist-Witch

11.29.2018 02:01PM

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Yule is the winter holiday celebrated by most pagan faiths. It's pre-Christian roots are Norse/Germanic when December would have been a month of celebrations at getting to mid winter marked by the Winter Solstice, the longest night of the year. The god Wodan/Odin was the god of Yule being the leader of the Wild Hunt which calls the dead and takes them to their resting place. Holle in the German tradition shares the lead of the Hunt and the Yule celebration. The first of 12 Nights of Yule is Mother's Night where the disir are honored running to New Years. Pork, boards, logs, goats and ale. Basically feast were held so food stores were shared and saved to get to spring. Singing, honoring the gods of the dead and fertility (Freyr is represented by boards and pork) and drinking to our honored dead were done.

Now with all that said what parts of the Bible give Christians permission to engage in Yule celebrations. Other than Jesus almost nothing about Christmas traditions is Christian. Atheists will high jack anything and call it secular but Christians engaging in pagan ritual is concerning, don't you think?

#2

janesix

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11.29.2018 03:24PM

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@Polytheist-Witch

Not only did the Christians appropriate pagan holidays, they also built many churches on pagan holy sites.

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Polytheist-Witch

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Polytheist-Witch

11.29.2018 04:29PM

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@janesix

Part of the problem within my religion is many sites were wood or just open outdoor spaces. They buried god poles and razed what temples they had which are being found but are just bits and pieces. We have to guess at almost everything we do.

#4

Plisken

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Plisken

11.29.2018 04:48PM

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The Law of Liberty

14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, butnot to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; [a]and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died [b]and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of [c]Christ. 11 For it is written:

“As I live, says the Lord,

Every knee shall bow to Me,

And every tongue shall confess to God.”

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another [d]anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.

The Law of Love

14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; 17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For he who serves Christ in [e]these things is acceptable to God and approved by men.

19 Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may [f]edify another. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with [g]offense. 21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles [h]or is offended or is made weak. 22 [i]Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is [j]sin. [NKJV]

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#5

Polytheist-Witch

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Polytheist-Witch

11.30.2018 01:39AM

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@Plisken

No idea why you post all that crap. if you can't answer a question. Don't.

#6

keithprosser

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11.30.2018 01:47AM

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https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/842/post_links/37716

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Plisken

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Plisken

11.30.2018 02:50AM

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@Polytheist-Witch

If your faith is strong, you will probably think: "Mmm goat", and praise God

If you have your doubts, then don't partake.

There's no sense in quarreling over such matters.

#8

Mopac

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Mopac

11.30.2018 05:47AM

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11.30.2018 05:47AM

Yule is not something Orthodox celebrate. In fact, I am wholey ignorant of it.

We celebrate the feast of the nativity, which is called Christmas in the west.

https://orthodoxwiki.org/Nativity

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Stephen

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Stephen

11.30.2018 07:23AM

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@Polytheist-Witch

but Christians engaging in pagan ritual is concerning, don't you think?

No, I don't think it "is concerning", Laughable? yes: considering there have been many dying and rising gods , Adonis, Attis, Osiris,Persephone,Lemminkainen and the newest Jesus the Christ just to name a few. The myths and practices and rituals surrounding the Christ come from many sources including Roman. Christianity simply had to incorporate something of the Roman 'religious' beliefs for it be accepted by the Roman population, they did have their own gods after all. i.e. for Christianity to be accepted by Roman citizenry, Jesus had to become yet another god. not necessarily another dying and rising "god".

The god Wodan/Odin was the god of Yule

Where does "Wodan/Odin" exist ?

Holle in the German tradition shares the lead of the Hunt and the Yule celebration.

Who is "Holle" and where does Holle exist?

Other than Jesus almost nothing about Christmas traditions is Christian.

So, what is your point?

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#10

Polytheist-Witch

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Polytheist-Witch

11.30.2018 12:08PM

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@Stephen

If you are to retarded to get the point don't post.

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#11

Polytheist-Witch

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Polytheist-Witch

11.30.2018 12:09PM

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@Plisken

Because you are sinning and the Bible says so. Most Christians are going to Hell..

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Plisken

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Plisken

11.30.2018 01:31PM

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@Polytheist-Witch

Maybe so, but I don't celebrate Odin, and I don't lose an ounce of sleep over heaven and hell.

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#13

Polytheist-Witch

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Polytheist-Witch

11.30.2018 01:37PM

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@Plisken

Of course you don't you assume you have a free ticket. LOL

#14

Plisken

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Plisken

11.30.2018 01:49PM

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@Polytheist-Witch

Correct, I don't assume that I have a ticket.

#15

keithprosser

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11.30.2018 01:57PM

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@Polytheist-Witch

The Christian church 'repurposed' pagan festivals (Christmas, Easter etc), presumably because it was easier than trying to suppress them.

It was a sucessful policy and paganism soon became little more than a collection of folk tales and stories for children. Today there are hardly any real pagans - just people who like to dress up in funny clothes (or no clothes!)and dance in forests.

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#16

Polytheist-Witch

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Polytheist-Witch

11.30.2018 03:37PM

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@Plisken

Sure you do.

#17

Mopac

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11.30.2018 08:24PM

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@keithprosser

I beg to differ. Paganism is the norm.

But paganism has a specific theological connotation to Orthodox. It isn't about following a nearly exinct religion, or even a non-Orthodox. It specifically refers to those who make created things their gods.

Now that needs further explaining as well, because the way non-Orthodox understand gods is much like how they understand paganism.

Well, for something to be a god, it doesn't have to be called a god. It simply has to be something that is put in the place of God.

For example, money can be a god. Fulfilling the lust of the senses can be gods. What makes life for you? Do you live to watch a tv show? Eat? Drink? Smoke? Sex? Imaginings? There is your god.

Or as the polluted mind of the pagan would say, anything that is fun. But they don't say this with knowledge, they say this because they are sick.

The first step in Orthodox Spirituality is heart purification, or cleansing of the nous, because it is written "blessed are the pure in heart, they will see God". Idolatry defiles a person. The pagan takes pride in their idolatry, it is their way of life. In the end, they are putting their trust in lying vanities.

So no, you take America as an example. I live in The United States, and I do love this country. But I am not blind, it is very obvious to me that this is the most perversely pagan country on the planet. Paganism is certainly the norm here. Even many so called Christians are pagans.

The idea that America is a Christian country is a myth. The churches in America preach from the pulpit with conviction known heresies, and the spirit of truth is rarely present. There are real believers in these churches, but they are in diaspora. Most aren't aware of Orthodoxy, and because of the way they are educated, the way it looks on the surface would be scary to them. But, things aren't as they seem. There is a very good reason for all of it.

There are anywhere between a million to 3 million maybe Orthodox Christians in America. It is a baby church here.

So tldr

Paganism is and has always been the societal norm.

#18

janesix

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11.30.2018 08:33PM

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@Mopac

what are "lying vanities"?

#19

keithprosser

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11.30.2018 08:35PM

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@Mopac

Obviously 'paganism' means different things to different people. In my post I used it loosely to refer to indigenous and folk religions which were displaced when they were Christianised.

#20

Mopac

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Mopac

11.30.2018 11:07PM

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@keithprosser

I understand.

I found it to be a good opportunity to expound on how "paganism" is understood in the context of orthodoxy.

#21

Mopac

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Mopac

11.30.2018 11:10PM

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@janesix

Anything that isn't The Ultimate Reality.

The so called gnostics have a problem with this because to them it means everything is screwed. Topically relevent, that isn't the case because Creation is The Flesh of The Word of God, enlivened by The Holy Spirit.

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Stephen

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Stephen

12.01.2018 07:07AM

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@Polytheist-Witch

If you are to retarded to get the point don't post.

I got the initial point. I addressed your initial point. I then asked you a few questions about your own comments.. You must have missed them. Here they are again:

The god Wodan/Odin was the god of Yule

Where does "Wodan/Odin" exist ?

Holle in the German tradition shares the lead of the Hunt and the Yule celebration.

Who is "Holle" and where does Holle exist?

Other than Jesus almost nothing about Christmas traditions is Christian.

So?

#23

Stephen

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Stephen

12.01.2018 07:12AM

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@Polytheist-Witch

Because you are sinning and the Bible says so. Most Christians are going to Hell..

How would you know. You have made your stance very clear about where you stand concerning the bible.

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#24

Polytheist-Witch

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Polytheist-Witch

12.01.2018 12:30PM

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@Stephen

And you are an atheist what you think of Bible means even less.

#25

Castin

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Castin

12.01.2018 03:08PM

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12.01.2018 03:08PM

Wasn't that why the Puritans of New England once outlawed Christmas? They considered its traditions pagan and un-Christian and found no scriptural justification for the holiday?

In any case, I'm happy to see Christians engage in pagan rituals. Pagans knew how to party, man. Christians need a lesson. 😎

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#26

Polytheist-Witch

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Polytheist-Witch

12.01.2018 04:04PM

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12.01.2018 04:04PM

Yeap nothing says party like human sacrifice.

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Plisken

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12.01.2018 04:31PM

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@Castin

They probably banned it because it wasn't something the theocrats could control and it represented a general disturbance to their order.

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Mopac

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12.01.2018 05:08PM

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@Castin

And this is one of the big differences between Orthodoxy and protestantism.

The protestants base everything off of scripture, and so they are stuck with just that.

The Orthodox Church has church tradition and scripture, which the church itself compiled.

In other words, Orthodoxy does not base its doctrine on scripture. The church knew what it believed before the New Testament was canonized.

But we certainly celebrate Christmas.

#29

Stephen

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12.01.2018 05:24PM

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@Polytheist-Witch

And you are an atheist what you think of Bible means even less.

How many times? I am not an atheist. I believe that there were gods. stop telling me what i believe and or think. The bible is an important history in the development of mankind. It doesn't tell the whole truth although I believe the OT is more truthful than the New Testament. I believe that the gods were once on this earth but left after a major catastrophe probably caused by themselves against mankind.

You have said that the gods never existed on earth, I accept your opinion. so answer theses simply questions concerning your beliefs instead of continuously shooting off that GREEEEEAAAT BIIIIG mouth of yours.

The god Wodan/Odin was the god of Yule

Where does "Wodan/Odin" exist ?

Holle in the German tradition shares the lead of the Hunt and the Yule celebration.

Who is "Holle" and where does Holle exist?

#30

Plisken

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Plisken

12.01.2018 05:27PM

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12.01.2018 05:27PM

Obviously not all Christians have Christmas. Most draw association with the Nativity, and of course it is a time of coming togather and giving. It was abused in 17th century Massechusets as it is today.