An Open letter to the MOD team and DART

Author: Wylted

Posts

Total: 141
Topic's author
#1
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
I have a supposed conduct violation in the following debate with BSH1: https://www.debateart.com/debates/310 . In the last round I claimed that bsh1 sent me a PM that stated the following


"Wylted, go fuck yourself. You suck at debating and it is a slap in the face to have to suffer through a debate with such a retard"

Let's imagine this was a lie on my part, and that it should be punished though I disagree, I have been banned from the following practices;

1. starting or accepting debates

This is fair, it took place in a debate the punishment fits the crime.

2. Voting on debates

Not even remotely fair and has nothing to do with the supposed violation.

3. I have been banned from reporting debates or votes on debates

How is this even relevant. If I see child porn posted on a debate I just have to ignore it now, instead of reporting it, I have not abused the report function. This is unfair and unjust.

-----------------

I am about to be banned 3 days because Castin said if I do not apologize I will be banned. For all anybody knows all PM screen shots of my interactions with bsh1 have been faked by him, so no evidence against me that is believable is out against me. I did tell him and virtuosa I lied about bsh1 in the debate, but for all they know I merely did that to defend his reputation to a couple of people close to him, and that my original allegation was honest.

=====================

I have very little time to make my case as I assume I will be banned shortly, but my philosophy is that in the debate, and as long as these things do not have provable repercussions outside of a debate that any arguments made should be permissable given the tabula Rasa method most judges should be using. That means if I need to lie about an opponents behind the scene manners to win, it is permissable.

-------

In short, it can not be proven I lied about bsh1, screen shots can be and often are faked, if I did lie it is permissable to lie to win a debate, and if not permissable than the punishment does not fit the crime.
#2
bsh1
bsh1's avatar
Debates: 14
Posts: 2,589
5
5
8
bsh1's avatar
bsh1
5
5
8
This is, frankly, an absurd situation. Wylted admitted to Virtuoso that he lied in order to pull out a win of a debate he was losing. It was a desperate and dishonest tactic and a character assassination. Moreover, if actions like Wylted's are tolerated on debates, the entire integrity of the activity will be severely undermined. This was beyond unacceptable--it was unconscionable, and a violation of debate ethics of the most grotesque and egregious kind.
#3
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@bsh1
It is also other things he has done in and around said event. He is here to stir up negative emotions in others, period.

That's his sole purpose on the site in my eyes. From encouraging a blatantly sensitive user to breakout in hysteria as he knew she was sensitive at the time and feeling under attack by challenging her to a debate saying she should die to making a debate about his own suicide and being furious that I outwitted him at convincing him he should live without losing my temper or reason along the way, he has been nothing but a brutally malignant force beyond what most consider 'troll' to this date.

I mean he is a troll, he's not 'beyond' but he's on the severe end of it. He is personal, calculating and severely game-theory-analytical in how he goes about provoking people. He studies each to find their weakness. This is why he didn't try the tactic of faking a PM with me, he knew I'd take 0 offence and make a joke out of him if he tried, on the other hand with you he knew attacking your mental health or job wouldn't work how it did with me. He finds what gets under someone's skin and uses that specialised tactic against that one person until they snap.

This is a user under only B***h (stars to avoid doxxing accusation) in how calculating he is in his sadism. You should extend the ban to permanent for his own sake. I may call myself a madman but this is an individual who is a danger to himself and others, if not physically then at least on a psychological-welfare-level.
#4
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,061
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
Doesn’t surprise me. Debate site mods have a record of saying horrible things in private. Proof: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Bn4vXS2rYZrio_BdL-xuYEjtK_ADlvc9yJZsQPWAE_E/mobilebasic
#5
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@thett3
You are not wrong about Airmax at all, as jokey as that seems I don't doubt a single quote (even though exaggerate by removing context) is something he'd say. Bsh1 isn't Airmax though even though he says he idolises the guy. Bsh1 is a much better mod and human being.
#6
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,061
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7

“nah... that would just lend it credibility... I'd instead make your assertions and any evidence you have seem conspiratorial and ridiculous, manipulate popular support against you and anyone who agrees with you, all while saying publically that I appreciate your attempts at keeping me in check and seeking truth.”

Bsh1, in a PM to me when I threatened to “drop the bomb” (he knows what I mean) 

#7
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,061
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
-->
@RationalMadman
max is the greatest representative of the Machiavellian archetype in contemporary fiction
#8
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@thett3
This is why I don't like you, Thett. You don't know how to separate joking in a good way from joking in a nasty way. You also don't understand when to be serious.
#9
ResurgetExFavilla
ResurgetExFavilla's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 627
3
2
7
ResurgetExFavilla's avatar
ResurgetExFavilla
3
2
7
Wow, the madman has really been breaking out the kneepads lately.
#10
Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,193
3
3
5
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
3
3
5
-->
@bsh1
People lie to win debates and/or get dishonest votes all the time. The formal debates are a joke in my opinion. This kinda seems like a grudge match bw you guys so i'll stay out of this one. My opinion on the formal debates and honesty? ... i vote dishonesty usually wins the day. 
#11
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@ResurgetExFavilla
And who are you a whore to? Who do you break out the kneepads for? God? Your imaginary friend?

Think before you mock me, kid. At least I am kneeling before someone that actually exists.

#12
ResurgetExFavilla
ResurgetExFavilla's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 627
3
2
7
ResurgetExFavilla's avatar
ResurgetExFavilla
3
2
7
-->
@RationalMadman

'I've got the new mod balls deep in my throat, but at least I don't believe in GOD!'
#13
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,061
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
-->
@RationalMadman
the entire thing is a joke, from wylted getting banned for an obvious troll, to bsh getting upset about it and sounding like Brett kavanaugh. it shouldn’t be taken seriously at all, but bsh is going to continue to get trolled if he acts like this every time 
#14
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@thett3
No, this is completely serious. Wylted should be permanently banned and made a fucking example of. He's nothing but malignant to the site.
#15
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@ResurgetExFavilla
No mod or human would ever want to be balls deep in your throat, let alone touch you with a 10 foot pole. xoxo
#16
ResurgetExFavilla
ResurgetExFavilla's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 627
3
2
7
ResurgetExFavilla's avatar
ResurgetExFavilla
3
2
7
-->
@RationalMadman
'ur ugly and nobody likes you. Don't mind me, I'm a crazy rebel with well-worn knees'
#17
bsh1
bsh1's avatar
Debates: 14
Posts: 2,589
5
5
8
bsh1's avatar
bsh1
5
5
8
-->
@Outplayz
People lie to win debates and/or get dishonest votes all the time. The formal debates are a joke in my opinion. This kinda seems like a grudge match bw you guys so i'll stay out of this one. My opinion on the formal debates and honesty? ... i vote dishonesty usually wins the day. 
I wouldn't agree with that, tbh. Debaters are almost always literally honest (and also mostly honest in spirit), and where "lies" occur, they are usually mistakes. And, most of the time, intentional lies are not efforts to defame your opponent and to assassinate their character in order to extract a win. This kind of behavior is unprecedented on either DDO or DART, at least during my years on the site. I know DDO was a bit more wild west before I arrived, but still, this behavior is beyond the pale.
#18
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@ResurgetExFavilla
"knees knees knees"

*shit, I'm running out of insults and RM's murking me at every comeback-trade... WAIT OMG I GOT IT!!!! Let's call him a REBEL with well-worn knees... Wait, then he's not a rebel*

derp
#19
Castin
Castin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,238
3
2
7
Castin's avatar
Castin
3
2
7
Ho, my first shitstorm.

You're welcome everyone. ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED.

E-drama fer you... e-drama fer YOU... and you... e-drama fer errybody...

#20
ResurgetExFavilla
ResurgetExFavilla's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 627
3
2
7
ResurgetExFavilla's avatar
ResurgetExFavilla
3
2
7
Weak bantz on this site, folks. Sad! I was worried I was going to get a cringy poem for a second, it might have given me a bit of a headache.
#21
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@ResurgetExFavilla
I can imagine following poems of my level of metaphor-emphasis and flow is headache-y to read out. Don't worry, it's not your fault, it's your parents' genes and how you were raised.
#22
Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,193
3
3
5
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
3
3
5
-->
@bsh1
I wouldn't agree with that, tbh. Debaters are almost always literally honest (and also mostly honest in spirit), and where "lies" occur, they are usually mistakes. And, most of the time, intentional lies are efforts to defame your opponent and to assassinate their character in order to extract a win. This kind of behavior is unprecedented on either DDO or DART, at least during my years on the site. I know DDO was a bit more wild west before I arrived, but still, this behavior is beyond the pale.
The debates are nothing more than a popularity contest. If you really think votes are honest without this bias... you are just trying to hang on bc you participate in them. This doesn't mean everyone is like that, but i am willing to put my money down on more than not. I hope that quote wasn't you btw... that is pretty malicious even by my standards. 

#23
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Outplayz
This is 0% to insult you, I am not a pussy I make it clear when I mean something malignantly.

This is to help you and state raw facts (follow it 1-onwards):

  1. You are a forum-main to extreme degrees.
  2. You probably know much more about forum politics than even someone as active as me does because of how into it you are.
  3. Bsh1 and I are the 2 highest ranked debaters on the site (based on some things about to happen he easily is going to equal my rating as I got robbed of a win vs Mopac due to a last-minute voting troll, tying against a lower rank, lowers your rating still if there's votes on it) and basically both of us are telling you that this is unacceptable behaviour. Sure, this is an 'authority' and 'genetic' fallacy but also consider this; how much do you know about what gets a consistently high winrate? Could you write a book? I bet the top 4 at present (yes even Drafterman, a rival of mine) could fill at least 2 A4 pages of solid writing about techniques and strategy to consistently win debates (online and offline). 
  4. Once you admit that this is not your area of expertise, you are then free to study and learn from the others. Having an ego is fine by me, I have a massive one, but ensure that you are honest about what you deserve to be proud of and not just be 'proud of knowing all in itself'. I would listen to you if you told me I was wrong about a specific element of what it takes to be a successful forum poster long-term.
  5. Popularity DOES make the 'edge' in close debates. Making the audience not just like you but go 'hot damn the way he/she wrote that is amazing' is how you get an edge in close 1v1 debates. That's about as much and as frequent as popularity matters.
  6. Honesty only loses to dishonesty if the dishonest one is a much stronger debater than the honest one... Okay, not true, if your IQ is far higher than the voter-base and your revealing of truth is done in a way that goes over their heads that also fails to win you the debate. Other than that, honesty is superior.

#24
bsh1
bsh1's avatar
Debates: 14
Posts: 2,589
5
5
8
bsh1's avatar
bsh1
5
5
8
-->
@Outplayz
I hope that quote wasn't you btw
It was not me, which is why Wylted was banned right now. Castin was shown evidence of Wylted's dishonesty, Wylted was unable to provide her evidence of the truth of his allegation (because none existed), and, based on that, coupled with Wylted's confession to Virt, Castin made a determination. Honestly, that quote doesn't even sound like me.

The debates are nothing more than a popularity contest.
They sometimes are, but I could not disagree more strongly with the sentiment that they usually are.
#25
Castin
Castin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,238
3
2
7
Castin's avatar
Castin
3
2
7
Would anyone like to place bets on how many pages this thread will be by a certain time.

I want to say at least three pages by noon tomorrow.
#26
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,061
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
-->
@Castin
ban or miss
i guess they never miss, huh? 
you got a mentor i bet he don’t PM ya 
he gon’ find another site and he won’t miss ya
he gon’ quit then hit the dab like airmaxifa

#27
SamStevens
SamStevens's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 287
0
1
3
SamStevens's avatar
SamStevens
0
1
3
-->
@Castin


#28
bsh1
bsh1's avatar
Debates: 14
Posts: 2,589
5
5
8
bsh1's avatar
bsh1
5
5
8
-->
@Castin
47 posts
#29
Castin
Castin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,238
3
2
7
Castin's avatar
Castin
3
2
7
-->
@bsh1
That's a really specific guess dude.

I'm suddenly having a flashback to Waterboy. "Guess? That ain't no guess, it's what it's gon' be."
#30
bsh1
bsh1's avatar
Debates: 14
Posts: 2,589
5
5
8
bsh1's avatar
bsh1
5
5
8
-->
@Castin
Guess I'm just omniscient.

I've never heard of that movie.