Human races exist

Author: Analgesic.Spectre

Posts

Total: 82
#31
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@Analgesic.Spectre
Assuming we accept this hypothesis what is the practical point here? How should this inform our decisions in real time? How do you suggest we use this information going forward? Is there some particular change in policy or attitude you are hoping to achieve?
#32
TheDredPriateRoberts
TheDredPriateRoberts's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,383
3
3
6
TheDredPriateRoberts's avatar
TheDredPriateRoberts
3
3
6
why is it a race and not a "noun: breed" a sort or kind of person or thing.
Topic's author
#33
Analgesic.Spectre
Analgesic.Spectre's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 468
1
1
6
Analgesic.Spectre's avatar
Analgesic.Spectre
1
1
6
-->
@ethang5
no u
Topic's author
#34
Analgesic.Spectre
Analgesic.Spectre's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 468
1
1
6
Analgesic.Spectre's avatar
Analgesic.Spectre
1
1
6
-->
@secularmerlin
This goes beyond the scope of this thread, but if human races do exist, then we can begin to cluster people into different ability categories, so as to give them the maximum chance in life. For example, a race with an average low I.Q. doesn't belong in high I.Q. professions, such as law or university research. However, that same race may excel is visio-spatial awareness, and thus would do much better on a sporting field. Treating low I.Q. groups with the same standards as average or high I.Q. groups, leads to the low I.Q. group being miserable and shut-off from society, or if affirmative action is in effect, totally incompetent.

We could also begin to deal with the fact that racial in-group bias is far stronger than any other factor, in regards to things like voting patterns and friendship. But, again, this goes beyond the scope of this thread.
#35
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@Analgesic.Spectre
I disagree. You cannot pigeonhole people with averages like that. I don't know what you mean by low IQ races but if even one exceptional individual has the potential to add something to scientific knowledge or the public discourse we owe it to ourselves as the human race (a fare more important distinction than this orvthatsubspecies of human) to encourage them to improve our policies or find a cure to a disease or invent a paradigm shifting theory or machine. In the same way most members of races you may consider high IQ race will probably not be gifted scientists and we should accept them for what they end up being.

If your goal is the improvement of human quality of life limiting a person's education or opportunities based on their "race" is counterproductive. Is that not your goal?
#36
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
-->
@Analgesic.Spectre
And the doofus pulls out his caste system.

Einstein was a "slow" pupil. By this hitler like idea, Einstein would have been restricted from learning physics.

What a moron.
Topic's author
#37
Analgesic.Spectre
Analgesic.Spectre's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 468
1
1
6
Analgesic.Spectre's avatar
Analgesic.Spectre
1
1
6
-->
@secularmerlin
Again, this really goes beyond the scope of this thread. All I wanted to do was show that human races exist, and it seems like you agree with that, and therefore there isn't anything to discuss with you, in this thread.

If you want to discuss the implications of races existing, you're welcome to make another thread.
#38
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
-->
@Analgesic.Spectre
Again, this really goes beyond the scope of this thread. 
Your putrid racism goes beyond the scope of this thread? Really?

Obviously my mom doesn't. So talk about her a little more. Racists who are ashamed of being racist are funny. The dissonance must drive you nuts. Though racists are nuts already.

All I wanted to do was show that human races exist,...
Captain Obvious just wanted to do a public service post. Lol. Sorry jasper, your ulterior motives were exposed.

Then you turned out to be a sleazy jerk too. Am I lucky or what?
#39
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@Analgesic.Spectre
A.Spec. wrote:
For example, a race with an average low I.Q. doesn't belong in high I.Q. professions, such as law or university research. However, that same race may excel is visio-spatial awareness, and thus would do much better on a sporting field.
As you are not a racist, I am sure what you meant to say was

"For example, an individual with a low I.Q. doesn't belong in high I.Q. professions, such as law or university research. However, that same individual may excel is visio-spatial awareness, and thus would do much better on a sporting field - the 'average' of their so-called race is irrelevant."

You would probably go on to say that "The difference in racial averages is real and measurable, but is small compared to the differences within a race and appears to be largely the result of social conditions rather than genetics.  Hence for people to achieve their potential it behoves society to treat people as individuals, not as clones of their outdated racial stereotypes."

I'm almost sure that is what you meant to say. NOT!










Topic's author
#40
Analgesic.Spectre
Analgesic.Spectre's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 468
1
1
6
Analgesic.Spectre's avatar
Analgesic.Spectre
1
1
6
-->
@keithprosser
As you are not a racist
Read this: 
I'm almost sure that is what you meant to say. NOT!
Verr nyce, Borat.

Now stop derailing my thread.


#41
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@Analgesic.Spectre
I did read it.   Did you read this:

Topic's author
#42
Analgesic.Spectre
Analgesic.Spectre's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 468
1
1
6
Analgesic.Spectre's avatar
Analgesic.Spectre
1
1
6
-->
@keithprosser
Yep so "being white" is the same as "Hitler enabling mass genocide of Jews", when it comes to "racism".

Stating that Blacks have, on average, lower I.Q. than whites, is the same as saying all Blacks must be permanent slaves on the cotton fields.

Stating that Blacks are higher represented in the NBA when compared with Whites, is the same as saying that all White basketball player's should be lined up and shot.

Stating that someone is White, is the same as flying planes into buildings.

These things are all "racist".

No, that's great.

Really.

Please keep using that crystal clear term.
#43
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
-->
@Analgesic.Spectre
Now you've done it. Little Adolph is mad. Our benevolent racist will now pull a righteously angry Kavenaugh.

He doesn't hate blacks, he just thinks they should be relegated to a sports career at birth because that is where they can reach their greatest potential.
#44
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@Analgesic.Spectre
If you aren't a racist you need to think about why come you come across as one.

When you write that certain races shouldn't be in certain professions on the basis of dubious average IQ data then you look like a racist, not just to me but to anyone who reads it.

Should I give you the benefit of the doubt and put it down to your writing style?   I wish I could.




#45
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@Analgesic.Spectre
I do not agree with your conclusion and even less with you proposed policy.
#46
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@Analgesic.Spectre
Your attitude toward "race" is bad for your race which is human.
Topic's author
#47
Analgesic.Spectre
Analgesic.Spectre's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 468
1
1
6
Analgesic.Spectre's avatar
Analgesic.Spectre
1
1
6
-->
@keithprosser
If you aren't a racist
Read, but this time, try to comprehend: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/174

When you write that certain races shouldn't be in certain professions on the basis of dubious average IQ data then you look like a racist, not just to me but to anyone who reads it.

Should I give you the benefit of the doubt and put it down to your writing style?   I wish I could.
Should you stop derailing this thread? I wish you would.
Topic's author
#48
Analgesic.Spectre
Analgesic.Spectre's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 468
1
1
6
Analgesic.Spectre's avatar
Analgesic.Spectre
1
1
6
I'm not going to respond to further thread derailments. If you wish to discuss the implications of race, make a different thread.

#49
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,969
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
Melanin is not a race.

Races based on one phenotype are meaningless classifications.
Topic's author
#50
Analgesic.Spectre
Analgesic.Spectre's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 468
1
1
6
Analgesic.Spectre's avatar
Analgesic.Spectre
1
1
6
-->
@Greyparrot
Melanin is not a race.
Strawman.

I never argued that melanin is race.

Races based on one phenotype are meaningless classifications.
Instead of littering this thread with bare assertions, why don't you address the data and conclusions I provided?


#51
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,969
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Analgesic.Spectre
How about you stop littering the science forums with subjective opinions like "sufficient"

Cause that's what your whole op boils down to, an opinion using the word "sufficient"

When you start with an opinion, the data doesn't matter because you are simply demonstrating predictable confirmation bias. There is nothing objective about "race"

Topic's author
#52
Analgesic.Spectre
Analgesic.Spectre's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 468
1
1
6
Analgesic.Spectre's avatar
Analgesic.Spectre
1
1
6
-->
@Greyparrot
>When you start with an opinion, the data doesn't matter because you are simply demonstrating predictable confirmation bias. There is nothing objective about "race"
>When you start with an opinion, the data doesn't matter
>the data doesn't matter

That summarises your position. 
#53
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,969
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
No real scientist is going to read past the word "sufficient"

It's clearly an opinion piece at that point.
#54
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
-->
@Greyparrot
And the reason for stating that opinion is bogus too.
#55
ResurgetExFavilla
ResurgetExFavilla's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 627
3
2
7
ResurgetExFavilla's avatar
ResurgetExFavilla
3
2
7
Widespread belief in the claim that human races don't exist will one day be looked upon as a weird mass insanity comparable to the Alsatian dancing sickness or Salem witch trials.

#56
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
-->
@ResurgetExFavilla
As "human races" is a subjectively set up thing, I don't care if someone thinks it applies. What is more important is why a person points this out. And as we see, the OP has a racist reason for the assertion.

But no matter how history will judge human races, treating it as anything more than a subjective classification is not logical.
#57
ResurgetExFavilla
ResurgetExFavilla's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 627
3
2
7
ResurgetExFavilla's avatar
ResurgetExFavilla
3
2
7
-->
@ethang5
Race is as objective as color itself, being a general descriptor of ethnic origin that operates on weighted gradients. The term 'subjective' doesn't apply to anything that exists on a gradient, it applies to something which depends on the subject rather than the object for value (exists in the mind of the subject rather than in the object itself). Which race isn't, it's literally a quality of the object being discussed. I can't say 'I'm an Australian Aborigine', or 'Denzel Washington is Chinese' and then claim that race is subjective so my personal opinion is valid. That's what the world 'subjective' means. Whether someone is nice or not is subjective. Weather they are Polynesian or not is objective. Sure, they may be half Polynesian, but they are objectively half Polynesian.
#58
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,969
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@ResurgetExFavilla
Sen. Warren is of the Native American race, Your argument is invalid.

#59
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,969
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
Nobody can say they are any one race, because no pure races exist. You could say you are similar to a non-existent race if you wanted to be technical and also subjective.
#60
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@ResurgetExFavilla
Widespread belief in the claim that human races don't exist will one day be looked upon as a weird mass insanity comparable to the Alsatian dancing sickness or Salem witch trials.
If people wanted to they could say there are four races of human, A, B, AB and O.    It is no more logical to discriminate on skin colour genes than on blood group genes - but we can't see blood groups.   The mass insanity is our tendency to focus on trivial but conspicuous differences which blind us to the fact that there is more variation within a 'race' than there is between races.

One day we will look back and wonder why we thought race mattered.