There are many ways to prove gods' existence, and the ones who try to disprove I can use their arguments against them.
God exists, and I Can Prove It.
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@Polytheist-Witch
ok?
Which god?
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@RationalMadman
Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't specify.
Jesus. Yahweh. Christianity.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't specify.Jesus. Yahweh. Christianity.
- Go ahead, prove it.
Well, I mean there are a lot of ways I can prove his existence. But I was hoping someone else would put in why they don't believe it so I can disprove their argument.
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@YouFound_Lxam
There are many ways to prove gods' existence.
"many ways"? Yet you haven't offered one.
I was hoping someone else would put in why they don't believe it so I can disprove their argument.
Yes, I bet you was. While conveniently forgetting already that it is you that has made the claim.
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@Stephen
Ok I'll explain my reasons.
1: The Singularity
Many scientists today call use the term singularity to represent what they believe to be the big bang. Now before I go any further, I just want to point out that I do agree with science, and in fact it does prove gods' existence.
Ok back to the singularity.
We hear from scientists that the singularity, means something that popped into existence from nothing. If nothing existed at the start of time, then nothing would be here now. It is impossible for something to pop into existence from nothing. The only way for something to come into existence from nothing, is if something, or someone puts it there.
The big bang defiantly did happen, but God is the one who ignited the match.
2: Design Has to Have a Designer
When you see the various aspects of nature, like birds, dogs, trees, and all of nature itself, and all of the specific roles they play you have to wonder how they got like that. We as humans try to copy nature sometimes with the way that we use technology, aerodynamics etc.
We see parts of our body that are some of the most advanced things we know of like for instance, the brain. We try to copy and mimic those things by making fake arms and computers and things like that, but we never even get close to a direct copy.
Now this all goes back to the question; well, where does design originate? We'll let me give you an example:
If you have all the parts of a watch in a box, and they aren't put together, you could shake that box forever, but you would never get a watch. Now the human brain for example is way more advanced than a watch, so do you really think that life was just created like that, all shaken up?
3. What Created Life?
Scientists use the term Law of Biogenesis to explain how life works. The way it is explained, is like this:
Law of Biogenesis: "In this material, natural world, life comes from previously existing life of its own kind.
Now scientist nowadays say well, life actually comes from random chemicals and elements. Yet every biological experiment we have done with chemicals and elements, has not produced life or any actual signs of life at all.
So, if life didn't arise from non-living chemicals, then how did life arise? The only explanation is a supernatural being.
4. Moral Law
If some things are objectively morally wrong, and some things are objectively morally right, then there must be a God.
We don't say that when a dog stole a bone from another dog, that dog broke a moral, law no we don't. But we do when it comes to humans. So, at what point did moral law become important.
5. Human Reasoning
We humans have the nature to reason, and to wonder why things exist, why we exist, and that's why we have science. Why are we the only species that does this? Animals don't wonder why they exist, they just do? What gave us that need to find out? God did that's who.
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@YouFound_Lxam
This forum is awash with argument and counter argument.
Which proves that nothing has ever been factually substantiated, either for or against the existence of a creator GOD, whose name if it actually exists might be Jesus or Dave for all anybody knows.
Or Daisy.
Or Big Boom.
Or nothing at all.
So, prove me right or wrong.
And I will prove you wrong or right.
Well, of course neither of us will prove anything other than ongoing inconclusivity.
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@zedvictor4
Well, I already stated my argument, so make yours.
Thats what you wanted right?
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@YouFound_Lxam
Wrong.
You presented a statement, not an argument.
And I also made a statement.
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@YouFound_Lxam
1-5.
I thought you were going to prove god exists?. Is all you have done is make statements , made further claims and turned to asking me questions.
It is a backdoor way for you to avoid supporting your own claims.
And is all you have done further is attempt to put the burden on proof for the existence of a god onto someone else.
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@YouFound_Lxam
That there may be things that science can’t yet explain doesn’t
validate the existence of God or any other supernatural entity, this is simply
a “God of the gaps” argument.
As to morality, morality was selected by evolution in order
to promote cooperation and smooth social interactions. We evolved as a tribal
species with feelings of empathy for the members within our group, we would
seek to protect each other and share any food acquired. Also by cooperating we could hunt large
animals and defend ourselves against heavily armed predators. In terms of
evolution all this helped to maximise our fitness to survive as it placed us at
the top of the food chain, which in terms of survival is about as good as it
gets.
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@YouFound_Lxam
"Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't specify.
Jesus. Yahweh. Christianity."
You have to prove that God exists. Then you have to prove that your God exists, and not Allah or Kali.
Personally, I dont care if God exists or not.
However, I cant help but noticing that you are burdening yourself by claiming you have proof.
Proof for something, by definition, makes every claim against it false.
So as long as there are opposite claims that are not proven false, you dont have proof.
Proof is different from the word "probably" in that sense.
Also, there is an entire army of people here dedicated to disproving christianity.
You could have made the title: "Why do you think God doesnt exist?", which would force them to explain and you would be able to attack their explanation.
"The word 'God' is for me nothing but the expression and product of human weaknesses; the Bible a collection of honorable but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish," Albert Einstein 1954
I guess YouFound_Lxam is no Einstein.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Well, I mean there are a lot of ways I can prove his existence.
No there aren't, faith is belief in things "unseen".
But I was hoping someone else would put in why they don't believe it so I can disprove their argument.
How about I tell you that I'm a believer that recognizes that there is no way to prove His existence, which is why it is a matter of faith, does that work? Then you can show us your "proof", and I can disprove your argument.
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@YouFound_Lxam
We hear from scientists that the singularity, means something that popped into existence from nothing.
That’s not what scientists say. Big Bang cosmology *begins* at the point of the Big Bang. It does not go any further because we do not know of its origins or whether the term “before the Big Bang” is even a coherent phrase since time itself may have come into existence at the point of the Big Bang which is is the case, there would be no such thing as “before”.
Secondly, when physicists talk about nothing they are not using the same definition you and every other laymen are using. Nothing in this sense refers to the absence of identifiable properties, but the absence of identifiable properties does not necessarily mean the absence of all properties.
The big bang defiantly did happen, but God is the one who ignited the match.
This is a bald assertion which you have not justified, and I would go even further to say you cannot possibly justify.
If you have all the parts of a watch in a box, and they aren't put together, you could shake that box forever, but you would never get a watch. Now the human brain for example is way more advanced than a watch, so do you really think that life was just created like that, all shaken up?
No one is claiming that this is how a brain or any other form of life came to be. Please study the theory of evolution. At least familiarize yourself with the basics before using such an uninformed analogy.
Now scientist nowadays say well, life actually comes from random chemicals and elements. Yet every biological experiment we have done with chemicals and elements, has not produced life or any actual signs of life at all.
Google the Miller–Urey experiment
So, if life didn't arise from non-living chemicals, then how did life arise? The only explanation is a supernatural being.
That’s not an explanation.
Things that do not exist cannot be rationally asserted as the cause for something else. Therefore, before you can assert X as the explanation you have to first demonstrate that X exists.
If some things are objectively morally wrong, and some things are objectively morally right, then there must be a God.
There is no such thing as objective morality in an absolute sense.
We humans have the nature to reason, and to wonder why things exist, why we exist, and that's why we have science. Why are we the only species that does this?
Questions are not arguments. Google argument from ignorance fallacy.
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@YouFound_Lxam
1: The Singularity
Many scientists today call use the term singularity to represent what they believe to be the big bang. Now before I go any further, I just want to point out that I do agree with science, and in fact it does prove gods' existence.
Ok back to the singularity.
We hear from scientists that the singularity, means something that popped into existence from nothing.
No, that’s not what science says, the theory is that the
Universe popped into existence from the pre-existing singularity, science makes
no claims about something from nothing.
If nothing existed at the start of time, then nothing would be here now. It is impossible for something to pop into existence from nothing. The only way for something to come into existence from nothing, is if something, or someone puts it there.
Science has no tools for addressing something from nothing, current
theory only applies if one postulates a singularity from which the Universe
arose.
The big bang defiantly did happen, but God is the one who ignited the match.
That is believed on faith, there is no proof of it.
2: Design Has to Have a Designer
When you see the various aspects of nature, like birds, dogs, trees, and all of nature itself, and all of the specific roles they play you have to wonder how they got like that. We as humans try to copy nature sometimes with the way that we use technology, aerodynamics etc.
We see parts of our body that are some of the most advanced things we know of like for instance, the brain. We try to copy and mimic those things by making fake arms and computers and things like that, but we never even get close to a direct copy.
Now this all goes back to the question; well, where does design originate? We'll let me give you an example:
If you have all the parts of a watch in a box, and they aren't put together, you could shake that box forever, but you would never get a watch. Now the human brain for example is way more advanced than a watch, so do you really think that life was just created like that, all shaken up?
Science has gone a long way to explain how complexity arises from simple principles, Darwin identified the mechanism by which organisms evolved from simple to more complex species.
3. What Created Life?
Scientists use the term Law of Biogenesis to explain how life works. The way it is explained, is like this:
Law of Biogenesis: "In this material, natural world, life comes from previously existing life of its own kind.
Now scientist nowadays say well, life actually comes from random chemicals and elements. Yet every biological experiment we have done with chemicals and elements, has not produced life or any actual signs of life at all.
So, if life didn't arise from non-living chemicals, then how did life arise? The only explanation is a supernatural being.
A supernatural being is not the ONLY explanation, and it is not valid to say that things we don’t fully understand somehow constitute proof of a supernatural being.
4. Moral Law
If some things are objectively morally wrong, and some things are objectively morally right, then there must be a God.
We don't say that when a dog stole a bone from another dog, that dog broke a moral, law no we don't. But we do when it comes to humans. So, at what point did moral law become important.
There is a strong argument for objective morality that doesn’t require a belief in God. Logic cannot answer the question of what we ought to do or the question of whether, in our moral and religious lives, we are encountering a transcendent aspect of reality, and it is only as a matter of faith that one can postulate a supernatural being.
5. Human Reasoning
We humans have the nature to reason, and to wonder why things exist, why we exist, and that's why we have science. Why are we the only species that does this? Animals don't wonder why they exist, they just do? What gave us that need to find out? God did that's who.
This isn’t even in the ballpark of constituting a proof, the premises are just speculative questions, they don’t provide evidence or reasons, and the conclusion doesn’t follow from the premises. Asking questions and then saying God did it isn’t a logical argument.
Ok, let's start from my first standpoint, the Big Bang.
"The Big Bang Theory is the leading explanation for how the universe began. Simply put, it says the universe as we know it started with an infinitely hot and dense single point that inflated and stretched — first at unimaginable speeds, and then at a more measurable rate — over the next 13.7 billion years to the still-expanding cosmos that we know today."
Let's start with this argument and then we can work our way up to the others.
"Around 13.7 billion years ago, everything in the entire universe was condensed in an infinitesimally small singularity, a point of infinite denseness and heat. Suddenly, an explosive expansion began, ballooning our universe outwards faster than the speed of light. This was a period of cosmic inflation that lasted mere fractions of a second — about 10^-32 of a second, according to physicist Alan Guth’s 1980 theory that changed the way we think about the Big Bang forever."
They don't explain how, "Suddenly, an explosive expansion began...". They just state that it happened. No scientist to this day has factual evidence of where that mass of energy came to be, and why it suddenly exploded.
If you truly believe the Big Bang was purely based in science, then answer this question.
Question one: What caused the "infinitely hot and dense single point that inflated and stretched"
If you can answer that question, then we can move on to the other points.
Also, If anyone would like to challenge me to a debate about this topic, I will happily accept.
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@YouFound_Lxam
.
YouFound_Lxam,
YOUR DECEIVING PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN QUOTE: “The big bang defiantly did happen, but God is the one who ignited the match.”
In your very ignorant post #9, I will only address one of your propositions at a time to save you further enormous embarrassment all at once if I had addressed all of them, you can thank me later.
Listen up pseudo-christian fool, the BIG BANG was only approximately 6000 years ago if you are using the JUDEO-Christian Bible as a foundation of Christianity and your faith, which as a pseudo-christian you cannot deny in the first place, understood? Huh?
Therefore, the genealogy in Luke 3:23-38 goes from Jesus back to Adam in the creation of humans and the universe in Genesis 1 and 2 by Jesus as God. This is a period of “approximately” 4000 years in biblical generation time spans. Subsequent to our serial killer Jesus dying in AD 33, until now is approximately 2000 years. This totals out that the creation of man and the entire universe, or the BIG BANG where you said Jesus as God lit the match, is only approximately 6000 years old! BIBLICAL AXIOMATIC FACT! Understood?!
Therefore, “Houston, we have a problem” in that the above biblical human history to this point in 2022 blatantly discredits dinosaurs existing because through SCIENCE that you accept, these animals existed approximately 66 million years ago, in a time known as the Mesozoic Era. GET IT?
Then, as biblically shown again, Jesus’ BIG BANG created as God, happened approximately 6000 years ago within the Bible, but dinosaurs existed 66 million years ago in CONTRADICTING the Bible’s creation of animals and the universe (Genesis 2:1, 2:9) Therefore, which proposition do you hold as true in being a pseudo-christian, even though both propositions blatantly contradict each other?! Be very careful in how you answer this question, or I will have to Bible Slap you Silly®️ in response!!!
YOU MAY BEGIN YOUR ANSWER:
.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Ok, let's start from my first standpoint, the Big Bang."The Big Bang Theory is the leading explanation for how the universe began. Simply put, it says the universe as we know it started with an infinitely hot and dense single point that inflated and stretched — first at unimaginable speeds, and then at a more measurable rate — over the next 13.7 billion years to the still-expanding cosmos that we know today."Let's start with this argument and then we can work our way up to the others."Around 13.7 billion years ago, everything in the entire universe was condensed in an infinitesimally small singularity, a point of infinite denseness and heat. Suddenly, an explosive expansion began, ballooning our universe outwards faster than the speed of light. This was a period of cosmic inflation that lasted mere fractions of a second — about 10^-32 of a second, according to physicist Alan Guth’s 1980 theory that changed the way we think about the Big Bang forever."They don't explain how, "Suddenly, an explosive expansion began...". They just state that it happened. No scientist to this day has factual evidence of where that mass of energy came to be, and why it suddenly exploded.
I don't see why this is relevent, this applies equally to the postulate of a supernatural being. Nobody to this day has factual evidence of where a supernatural being came from, or why it suddenly created the Universe. The lack of knowledge about something doesn't prove something else.
If you truly believe the Big Bang was purely based in science, then answer this question.Question one: What caused the "infinitely hot and dense single point that inflated and stretched"
I don't know, answer this question.
Question one: What caused the supernatural being?
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Thank you for your concern.
Though I don't appreciate the yelling, I will answer your question.
Listen up pseudo-christian fool, the BIG BANG was only approximately 6000 years ago if you are using the JUDEO-Christian Bible as a foundation of Christianity and your faith, which as a pseudo-christian you cannot deny in the first place, understood? Huh?
First off, why do you assume that I am pseudo-Chistian? I never stated that I am, and in fact said the opposite. I am a Non-Denominational Christian. Get your facts right before you start spewing out lies.
Secondly, I do believe in science, and the timeframe of the big bang is supported in the bible.
2 Peter 3:8-9 NIV states," But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead, he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."
Then in Genisis 1:3 it states," God said, “Let there be light!” So there was light. 4 God saw that the light was beautiful. He separated the light from the darkness, 5 calling the light “day,” and the darkness “night.” The twilight and the dawn were day one. 6 Then God said, “Let there be a canopy between bodies of water, separating bodies of water from bodies of water!” 7 So God made a canopy that separated the water beneath the canopy from the water above it. And that is what happened: 8 God called the canopy “sky.” The twilight and the dawn were the second day. 9 Then God said, “Let the water beneath the sky come together into one area, and let dry ground appear!” And that is what happened: 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and he called the water that had come together “oceans.” And God saw how good it was. 11 Then God said, “Let vegetation sprout all over the earth, including seed-bearing plants and fruit trees, each kind containing its own seed!” And that is what happened: 12 Vegetation sprouted all over the earth, including seed-bearing plants and fruit trees, each kind containing its own seed. And God saw that it was good. 13 The twilight and the dawn were the third day. 14 Then God said, “Let there be lights across the sky to distinguish day from night, to act as signs for seasons, days, and years, 15 to serve as lights in the sky, and to shine on the earth!” And that is what happened: 16 God fashioned two great lights—the larger light to shine during the day and the smaller light to shine during the night—as well as stars. 17 God placed them in space to shine on the earth, 18 to differentiate between day and night, and to distinguish light from darkness. And God saw how good it was. 19 The twilight and the dawn were the fourth day. 20 Then God said, “Let the oceans swarm with living creatures, and let flying creatures soar above the earth throughout the sky!” 21 So God created every kind of magnificent marine creature, every kind of living marine crawler with which the waters swarmed, and every kind of flying creature. And God saw how good it was. 22 God blessed them by saying, “Be fruitful, multiply, and fill the oceans. Let the birds multiply throughout the earth!” 23 The twilight and the dawn were the fifth day. 24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth each kind of living creature, each kind of livestock and crawling thing, and each kind of earth’s animals!” And that is what happened: 25 God made each kind of the earth’s animals, along with every kind of livestock and crawling thing. And God saw how good it was. 26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, to be like us. Let them be masters over the fish in the ocean, the birds that fly, the livestock, everything that crawls on the earth, and over the earth itself!” 27 So God created mankind in his own image; in his own image God created them; he created them male and female. 28 God blessed the humans by saying to them, “Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, and subdue it! Be masters over the fish in the ocean, the birds that fly, and every living thing that crawls on the earth!” 29 God also told them, “Look! I have given you every seed-bearing plant that grows throughout the earth, along with every tree that grows seed-bearing fruit. They will produce your food. 30 I have given all green plants as food for every wild animal of the earth, every bird that flies, and to every living thing that crawls on the earth.” And that is what happened. 31 Now God saw all that he had made, and indeed, it was very good! The twilight and the dawn were the sixth day."
Genisis 2:1 state," With this the heavens and the earth were completed, including all of their vast array. 2 By the seventh day God had completed the work he had been doing, so on the seventh day he stopped working on everything that he had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on its God stopped working on everything that he had been creating.
Genesis 2:1-3"
I only use the bible for evidence in this case, because you quoted from the bible as well.
You don't have to believe the 7 days of creation are literal 7 days to be a Christian. I believe that given 2 Peter 3:8-9 NIV states," But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." that for God, it was 7 days, but for the human interpretation of it, science explains what it looked like for us. God created all of it, but we witnessed it in a different way than he did.
If you are going to
Bible Slap you Silly
Then I suggest you to your research and ask your questions before you spew off in a fit of rage.
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@Sidewalker
I don't know, answer this question. Question one: What caused the supernatural being
Proving gods' existence is harder said and done. I will admit that you have made a really good point, yet it doesn't make me change my mind.
Taking what you said, and thinking about it, my evidence and claims have only disproven the scientists that claim thing just came to be. The only thing that I have proven, is that some other force, or some other being exists that created everything that we know of today.
Proving gods' existence is a much harder argument to argue, and I should have changed my forum title to Disproving Scientists Claims about the origins of the Universe.
Thank you for actually having an intellectual argument with me, and this just proves that unlike some people, I actually pay attention to people's arguments and work off of it.
You have proven the argument I am making impossible with the evidence that I have. But I am sure with time and resources I will be able to prove gods' existence.
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@Elliott
We evolved as a tribal species with feelings of empathy for the members within our group,
I do want to point this out to you as it proves what I am saying.
Why did we evolve with empathy, and not murderous intent. What force made us like this and not the other way around.
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@YouFound_Lxam
I don't know, answer this question. Question one: What caused the supernatural beingProving gods' existence is harder said and done. I will admit that you have made a really good point, yet it doesn't make me change my mind.
I'm not trying to change your mind, I'm a believer too, just recognize that it is a matter of faith and there are no proofs.
Taking what you said, and thinking about it, my evidence and claims have only disproven the scientists that claim thing just came to be. The only thing that I have proven, is that some other force, or some other being exists that created everything that we know of today.
Both science and religion strive for a fuller consciousness of the universe, but they do not compete, rather they complement each other. The theistic conclusion in no way seeks to be a rival to scientific explanation, but rather it aims to complement that explanation by setting it within a wider and more profound context and understanding. Rather than conflict, I think they are referential to each other.
Science explicitly points to a transcendent reality, all of the unifying theories of science postulate more
dimensions, most reference ten dimensions, that is to say that reality ultimately
consists of at least six additional dimensions that transcend our four
dimensional frame of reference. The
reality that we experience, that we are capable of experiencing, is a lower
level, four dimensional aspect of a far greater reality in which we live and move and have our being.
Proving gods' existence is a much harder argument to argue, and I should have changed my forum title to Disproving Scientists Claims about the origins of the Universe.
I don't think it's possible to prove, reality is always going to be ambiguous regarding the question of God's existence, belief in God is not logically coercive, it’s a matter of faith, but for those who choose it, it does provide an intellectually satisfying way of making sense of the broadest possible band of human experience, of uniting in a single account, the rich and many layered encounter that we have with a reality that is experienced as full of value, meaning, and purpose.
Thank you for actually having an intellectual argument with me, and this just proves that unlike some people, I actually pay attention to people's arguments and work off of it.
I'm quite impressed actually, most of the time people are just talking past each other here, rather than paying attention to people's arguments they are just waiting for thier turn to talk.
Thank you for actually having an intellectual discussion with me, it's much appreciated.
You have proven the argument I am making impossible with the evidence that I have. But I am sure with time and resources I will be able to prove gods' existence.
I don't think that is possible, but I wish you the best of luck, I'd like to see you do it.
There is a single creator and all the gods exist. Other than personal experience there is no proof any of what I just said is true. To say otherwise is a lie.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
@YouFound_Lxam
First off, why do you assume that I am pseudo-Chistian? I never stated that I am, and in fact said the opposite. I am a Non-Denominational Christian. Get your facts right before you start spewing out lies.
But your profile doesn't state that does it? So it isn't a lie is it? You say you are a male Christian on 20 grand year that works in government. So don't be so quick to call members here "liars SPEWING LIES" when it is you that hasn't filled in your profile truthfully. And claiming to be a Christian is your denomination.
Your profile here>>>.. chrome-extension://ebkihbjamcljmddijijlfachpgphldll/screenshot.html?imageId=3
I only use the bible for evidence in this case, because you quoted from the bible as well.You don't have to believe the 7 days of creation are literal 7 days to be a Christian.
Well if you are using the bible as evidence, it states "days". But then you say one doesn't have to believe the bible evidence literally.
You are not making things easy for yourself are you.
Like your profile, the bible is full of holes. You need to go away and have a rethink before digging any deeper.