If Taxes were to become voluntary tomorrow. Would you send any of your income to the government?
Here is what I would send:
City(5%)
State(10%)
Federal(3%)
Taxes thought experiment.
Posts
Total:
26
Well, taxes are mandatory in China for everyone who has a home. To be fair, I want that every single penny of tax money from my family to be straight to the central government - NOT city, NOT provincial government. Taxpayer money would be corroded by corrupt officials on the lower levels, which they stay that way, considering the people's congress, let alone the chairman, undergoes much stricter examination than even the US congress or executive branch elections.
Although I don't know if it is possible that the money can be handed straight to the central government without being taken away parts by the lower levels, I would do that.
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@Greyparrot
Voluntary Taxation = Donation.
The government wouldn't receive a dime from me. If I, however, were asked to contribute in order to maintain certain public goods and services, I would happily do so, as long as the arrangement is between those who donate and the private/independent contractors themselves.
It is fun to think about, but military needs lots of money and I doubt that voluntary donations would be enough without some serious information campaign.
I would pay maybe 10%, maybe 20%. Depending on how well the government actually uses the money.
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@Intelligence_06
"I don't know if it is possible that the money can be handed straight to the central government without being taken away parts by the lower levels"
Throughout history, many countries had the system of the central government and regional governments.
Regional governments had to pay fixed amount of tax to the central government.
Regional governments would collect taxes from their territories, and use it to sustain themselves and pay tax to the central government.
Central government would determine the exact amount of money that a regional government has to pay.
Also, central government would make public declaration about exact amount of money each citizen has to pay to the regional government.
This helped a lot with fighting corruption.
Regional governments who wouldnt pay the demanded sum of money would face penalty, removal from power, or maybe even death.
Now, in case of voluntary taxes, this would be hard to apply 600 years ago. This is simply because any regional government can lie about the amount of donated money. It would be very hard for the central government to figure out who is lying.
Central government could deny services to the regional governments who dont pay enough, and that could maybe work. Still, countries with mandatory taxes would have great advantage.
Today we have computers who can make list of everyone who donated and the list could be publicly available for anyone to see.
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@Greyparrot
I don't know,
Might depend on how patriotic I felt, how much I felt like expressing such, even privately in donation.
Problem 'could be avoided, by government owning 'most of the land, resources, public utilities,
But such would require some form of single owning individual or notion.
So that donations become unnecessary to large governments function.
Though those forms of government, like all forms of government, have 'expected problems.
. . .
I suppose rather than donating your chosen 'percentage of income,
You are taxed a set percentage, but are allowed to say where it goes.
I wouldn't pay taxes if I didn't have to. However if I was allowed to allocate it how I wanted 100%wpuld go to city government. I live in a blue state so the roads are falling apart as well as trash being on the highways.
When I was in Florida the roads and sidewalks and everything was pristine. Here because it is a blue area, everything is dilapidated and shitty looking
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@PREZ-HILTON
I would have allocated more to the city than the state but I want state subsidized healthcare for the poor.
Federal govt can go to hell, all they get is 3 percent for the military.
I would want it allocated better than by level.
Main categories I see:
Infrastructure- power, road maintenance, sewage, etc.
Law enforcement- Police, Courts, FBI, etc.
National Security- Foreign intelligence, military
Science/Medicine- NASA, NIH, etc
Safety- OSHA, FDA (has some overlap with law enforcement)
Legislation/Administration- Congress, mayors, etc.
Basic stuff- paying gov employees, maintenance of buildings, PR, etc.
I'm probably missing a few, but basically, if I never travel on the highway, then my tax dollars shouldn't pay for the highway. And you could probably manage a lot more, especially on the local level, by fees rather than taxes. Put a toll booth before every highway on ramp.
I don't know what is up with y'all in the US, but the current norm in China is:
- No one would actually donate anything if it were just normal tax dollars. Selfishness cannot be eliminated entirely.
- In fact, it is expected that if it were a policy, those that donate more will be seen as more favorable socially, at the cost of themselves being poorer. The upper middle class(such as the entry-level millionaires) would donate tens or hundreds of thousands just for views and social impression, and the poorest levels would donate nearly half(or even more) and get no attention socially.
- Everyone wishes what was being said by the national government is being enforced by the local levels. In that case, people would offer money so the regulations are being maintained more strictly, but it is likely the corrupt ones the sums are intended to change are the most likely to absorb a considerable part before any part can go to being used for actual productivity.
- Since the evil capital is richer than the average person, their offers with intended bias would probably outweigh everything summed of ordinary citizens. Essentially, this would turn into a bribery fest.
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@Intelligence_06
And you think that the Chinese Cental Government is above corruption?
Just to reiterate the saying:
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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@zedvictor4
Well, not exactly. The central government cannot get so corrupt that people can notice it as so, at least it hasn't happened yet. The local levels can hide that with a higher proficiency as most people don't care as much.
It is hard to be corrupt when everyone is looking at them. Surely they could just twist their words so it seems like no corruption was there, however, the current degree of twisting, if any, is acceptable to most citizens, at least comparing it to for example the local governments.
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@Intelligence_06
So how did Xi and his family accumulate their considerable wealth in such an egalitarian society.
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@zedvictor4
I don't know, but most of his actions are considered understandable to most Chinese, as opposed to some of the stuff my city has done(such as labeling people as COVID-positive out of the blue and lockdowning the entire building containing them, etc).
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@Intelligence_06
The problem with China is that the leaders are too proud to admit they made a mistake with Covid. China's problem is more about pride and hubris than corruption sadly.
I would pay 10% of my total income in taxes. That means all taxes on anything anywhere in the entire country. But with that said, if the govt can just print worthless money and use it like real money why am I required to pay taxes at all? Ya, the govt does that to the tune of trillions of dollars every year in case you didn't know.
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@sadolite
I would pay 10% of my total income in taxes
How about 10% flat consumption tax?
Ya, the govt does that to the tune of trillions of dollars every year in case you didn't know.
Yah, normally they do it to keep inflation at around 3 percent to encourage investments, but now it's at 8 percent because they made a boo boo.
That would be great, but govt cant be trusted to not reimplement the income tax and raise the flat tax. Govt needs to spend less and quit printing counterfeit money. That is the problem, not a lack of taxes. Govt must operate within the revenues generated at current levels without deficit spending, it must also address the current national debt of 31 trillion dollars and it has to tell the American public it can not sustain any of the 200 trillion in future liabilities. America by any definition is beyond bankrupt. American govt fiscally speaking is the biggest criminal Ponzi scheme to ever exist. The govt is only able to continue because it has legalized the printing of counterfeit money to stay afloat so people don't go to Washington DC and execute every member of Congress for perpetuating the countries inevitable and ultimate total financial collapse. America is the equivalent pre WW2 Weimar Republic in the beginning stages.
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@sadolite
It's also making the problem worse by attempting to hide the falling GDP with government expenditures from printed money. It's a massive ponzi scheme that's gonna hit hard next year.
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@Greyparrot
The fiscal future of millennials is utterly and totally hopeless. Good Times Create Weak Men, And Weak Men Create Hard Times. Millennials are the product of weak men who have to suffer the hard times the weak men created for them, which in turn will make the millennials stronger as they get older and the cycle will continue. Millennials will give birth to a strong generation that will pick up the pieces of the previous weak ones. Then good times will come and each new generation will get weaker and weaker.
They still have time to save themselves if they decrease federal budget spending by at least 40%.
It would require the decrease of spending on either:
1) medicare and mediaid
2) social security
3) military.
What to choose out of these three is a painful choice, because whatever they choose will have bad consequences.
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@Best.Korea
Uh that's basically what I just said, but I know, you know and everyone else knows none of that will happen. Financial collapse is what will happen and all of those solutions will be moot because they will not exist anymore because there will be no real wealth generated taxable money or counterfeit money to pay for any of it. You will be on your own with no safety nets at all that all the previous generations enjoyed but abused because they were so entitlement mined and weak. I am generation X, the second generation after the WW2 generation. Looking back I can see how weak we were compared to the WW2 generation. I have never suffered a day in my life. My worst day in 58 years of living is nothing, I would be a whiny cry baby embarrassment to even mention it to a WW2 era generation. They are all pretty much dead now or in their 80's at the youngest.
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@sadolite
Most of the people dont seem to care about debt.
They keep electing politicians who promise to increase spending (increase debt).
Increasing debt always causes inflation.
I dont see the point of this debt economy, and I agree that its a scam.
It gives cheaper healthcare to the poor, but makes everything else in the country more expensive with mass inflation.
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@Best.Korea
"Most of the people don't seem to care about debt." They doom every person on earth to a life of poverty and misery. That type of person is the greatest danger to humanity there is. They don't know they are fiscally retarded but everyone else around them who are not fiscally retarded has to suffer because of them and their fiscal retardation.
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@Intelligence_06
Fair enough.
I view Xi with mixed feelings.
On the one hand he seems quite ruthless.
And on the other he displays a certain pragmatism.
That's what it takes I suppose.