I've always been confused about how people think their are more than two genders. I mean they say gender is a social construct, but how can someone identify as a gender and also say gender doesn't exist?
Why Do People Think Their Are More Than Two Genders?
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@YouFound_Lxam
Well, that's not what they really think.
Well, it is in terms of data processing and output.
Electro-chemical signalling and conversion to some form of narrative, as it were.
Though said narrative is just a contrived justification response, that accompanies a socio-psychologically inspired response to a developed appreciation of diverse recreational sex behaviour and desires.
So, Mummy was an egg, and Daddy was a sperm, and I will cut my dick off and call myself Daphne.
Simple.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Gender is a personal identity thing which society mandates people choose. With there biologically being more than two sexes, is it really surprising that something subjective to the person isn’t somehow more restrictive than that?
Oh look another post on gender. How original.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Sex can be much more complicated than it at first seems. According to the simple scenario, the presence or absence of a Y chromosome is what counts: with it, you are male, and without it, you are female. But doctors have long known that some people straddle the boundary—their sex chromosomes say one thing, but their gonads (ovaries or testes) or sexual anatomy say another. Parents of children with these kinds of conditions—known as intersex conditions, or differences or disorders of sex development (DSDs)—often face difficult decisions about whether to bring up their child as a boy or a girl. Some researchers now say that as many as 1 person in 100 has some form of DSD.
Ok, the intersex community only makes up for about 1.7 present of the population. And either way if you are intersex, you still have a defining body part or hormone that doctors can use to determine which gender you really are. If someone was actually half girl and half boy, they would have to have the ability to both give birth, and impregnate. Now that is biologically impossible.
Thats like saying humans have more than two arms just because a small percent of people is born with some extra limbs.
Might be 'everything is a social construct, in my view,
But it's impractical to go about life, in such a way.
Sex exists in humans, pretty regularly,
Male and female, though as others have said, rare conditions exist.
A more visible condition, unrelated to being this or that sex, would be,
People are able to 'see that something is wrong,
Same can be said of some conditions of being this or that sex,
People 'claim that gender dysphoria, is visible in the brain, can Google these claims,
And maybe I haven't researched enough, but I haven't heard conclusive proof myself,
Such also doesn't explain people 'without those brain signs, who still want their sex changed.
But sex has been built strongly into human culture,
If we were like some other animals, and had a history of changing/acquiring other sexual characteristics, maybe our culture would be different,
But we don't,
And in many areas, bathrooms, sports, military,
A clear distinction is made between the sexes.
. . .
I come back to social construct,
Not eating dogs is a social construct,
In humans dressing this way or that way, is seen as masculine, feminine,
But effeminate 'Guys and masculine 'Girls already exist,
Because 'places in society were a social construct, though women need not pretend to be men, or men pretend to be women, in my book.
A tomboy, is just a girl.
A female warrior, is just a female warrior.
I imagine there's examples of boys with girly interests,
But western society has shifted a fair bit, even before transgenders started talking so much.
Where many roles are not stopped by sex.
But, it 'looks (I don't know)
That transgenders want to go beyond being able to wear dresses or makeup,
They want to 'be the other sex, and be referred to as the other sex.
I just don't like doing that,
And I'm glad that science doesn't exist to the point, where I'd logically have to admit, they are something else,
Not because I hate transgender people,
But I think people get used to facts of life, as the way situations 'ought be, though 'claims of life, regularities of life, might be more accurate.
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@YouFound_Lxam
they say gender is a social construct, but how can someone identify as a gender and also say gender doesn't exist?
Social constructs exist. The distinction is that they are determined by humans and human behavior. The modern conception of the teenager is less than a hundred years old. [1] By contrast, third gender cultures have existed for hundreds of years. Saying that a gender is "invalid" or "not real" because it doesn't correspond to one of two biological sexes (which is itself ignorant of several chromosomal/other intersex disorders) is just as arbitrary as saying one is a "teenager" at 13-18 and therefore must meet teenager stereotypes.
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@K_Michael
Likely if we were more exact with our language,
It'd take us much longer to say exactly what something is.
As, I'd still see a barren man or woman, as a man or woman,
But it's true they wouldn't fit into definitions of male and female, that focus on being able to produce kids.
"You must understand young hobbit, takes a long time to say anything in Old Entish. And we never say anything unless it is worth taking a long time to say."
-Treebeard
Eh, maybe we ought, but I like talking carelessly.
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@K_Michael
I never said social constructs don't exist, I said that how can someone say gender is a social construct, but then also say that people can identify with their preferred gender.
You could say that gender is a social construct, but you could also say that money is a social construct as well. Should we just stop using money? The whole point we created money is to make trade easier. Same with gender. We created gender, so that we can make identifying a biological male as a man, and a biological female as a woman.
Now this doesn't mean people shouldn't have the right to identify as they want to, I think that that would be against the U.S. first amendment, but if someone choses to identify as such, why should everyone else around act as if they are a different person and go against what humans have been believing for thousands of years.
That would be like if someone said they were going to stop using money as currency, and just use items for trade. They could still function in society, but you can't expect everyone to immediately go and switch with them.
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@K_Michael
And yes, third gender cultures have existed for hundreds of years, but so have other cultures, like Canabals. They still exist, yet you would agree that the majority of people wouldn't agree with them. Just because a culture has existed, doesn't make it the right way to live.
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@YouFound_Lxam
There are borderline at least 3 genders. Male, Female and Other. The first two options encompass the majority of humanity, so most telephone networks would probably opt for these three choices on their websites unless they are deliberately pitifully trying to appeal to the poisoned woke culture of the modern left.
Something that I don't know how productive it is is the effort of dividing the "other" group into infinitesimal subsections. Well, Bigender and agender may have somewhat intuitive ideas(I don't know if it is clinically possible to define, I am just ignorant because I have better things to deal with), but then the subcategories become so specified that to separate it becomes seemingly futile. Some people define themselves as "adamasgender", which is a gender that is undefined and cannot be categorized. Somehow, this is different from agender, even though I don't know how different they would be in utility. The division results in internet users speaking out of attention for a group that is hardly of size due to their volunteered division. With their logic, might as well categorize transgender male as a completely distinct gender from cisgender male.
Still, some of the genders people made up is self-defeating to me to say the least. If you have a dragon in your garage that is invisible, indetectable and breathes indetectable fire by anything, what makes it distinct from having no dragon at all to anyone else? If you have a gender that is so complicated not even You could clearly and distinctively define it by essence(rather than define to just be different forcefully) making so that people could comprehend that it is in fact a separate branch of thought to anything else on this matter as opposed to just a branch or combination, then that is akin to the gender perhaps not even existing.
Well, how do you identify as an attack helicopter? Surely, you can twist by redefining what an attack helicopter is, but how would that benefit in your actual proof that your distinctive gender is distinct?
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@zedvictor4
@YouFound_Lxam
how people think their are more than two genders
..." One species of fungi, Schizophyllum commune,
really shines when it comes to gender diversity. The white, fan-shaped
mushroom has more than 23,000 different sexual identities, a result of
widespread differentiation in the genetic locations that govern its
sexual behavior. "
yet you can still see the chromosomes from those plants.
and your source is a magazine?
Super reliable
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@YouFound_Lxam
The irony of someone calling gender a made up social construct and then demanding the world acknowledge their newly made up gender is laughable. Talk about the apex of circular logic.
If anyone agrees with this made-up social construct, then tell me the definition of a woman without using the word woman. Plot twist you can't.
When we talk about the sex of someone we talk about their genitalia that's male/ female. Gender has to do with how a person identifies as far as femininity and masculinity. You can consider yourself to be a male but be feminine you can consider yourself to be female and be masculine you can be female and feminine you can be masculine and male there's a variety of combinations there you can be female in asexual. And none of that has anything to do with sexual orientation. There are plenty of trans people who are also homosexual. There are trans people that are heterosexual. The human mind and soul are complicated constructs and they don't always fall within the strict definitions set by science or society. If you seriously can't handle someone you know has a penis wanting to be called she then just don't fucking go around people you can't handle to be around. Nobody's forcing anyone to hang out with gay people on their free time no one's forcing anyone to hang out with trans people in their free time. All anyone is saying is human beings have the right to exist in the way they want to exist and you don't really have a right to tell them no. And we're not talking about people who commit crimes by forcing people to have sex against their will or without consent. And if you think allowing a man to believe he's a woman, to dress like a woman, to live like a woman and compare that to a pedophile who is molesting someone or rapist who is molesting someone then you're stupid.
Gender is something I have found confusing and it is down to
definition. The terms used are “sex” and “gender.” I would have thought to two
were interchangeable but apparently this is not the case these days.
This is from a UK gov website.
Sex is defined as:
Referring to the biological aspects of an individual as determined by their anatomy, which is produced by their chromosomes, hormones and their interactions
Generally male or female
Something that is assigned at birth
Gender is defined as:
A social construction relating to behaviours and attributes based on labels of masculinity and femininity; gender identity is a personal, internal perception of oneself and so the gender category someone identifies with may not match the sex they were assigned at birth
where an individual may see themselves as a man, a woman, as having no gender, or as having a non-binary gender – where people identify as somewhere on a spectrum between man and woman
This is from a UK gov website.
Sex is defined as:
Referring to the biological aspects of an individual as determined by their anatomy, which is produced by their chromosomes, hormones and their interactions
Generally male or female
Something that is assigned at birth
Gender is defined as:
A social construction relating to behaviours and attributes based on labels of masculinity and femininity; gender identity is a personal, internal perception of oneself and so the gender category someone identifies with may not match the sex they were assigned at birth
where an individual may see themselves as a man, a woman, as having no gender, or as having a non-binary gender – where people identify as somewhere on a spectrum between man and woman
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@Polytheist-Witch
No, the U.S. media is forcing people to like and be part of the LGBTQ+ agenda. This is why people are fighting against it.
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@YouFound_Lxam
The media can't force anything. You willingness to give them control in your life is your issue.
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@Polytheist-Witch
When the government is corrupt, and killing people for saying the wrong things, then yes, it is forcing. But you are right, I'm not going to give them control of my life.
There are two sexes, each indicating one's role in sexual reproduction (i.e. insemination and gestation.)
Gender is the social manifestation of one's sex.
So it would follow that there are two genders.
A third, or more, gender would implicate the social manifestation of a third role in sexual reproduction. I would like to know what that role is.
If you're using the argument that gender and sex are different, and that people can be one sex, but identify with whatever they want to, then you would have to have a physical biological role for the third or more gender. You can't just identify as something and not physically being that thing. You can think to yourself that you identify as that thing, but it's true to no one else, so you would be living a lie.
It's obvious that the hatred for women bleeds over into this issue, because it's all about reproduction. That's what it comes down to in almost every argument. Men have semen and women have eggs and men have dicks and women have vaginas and it's all about sex and reproduction. The idea that no one understands the nuances of personality, mind and soul but you think you have some authority on a debate site it's just mind-boggling.
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@YouFound_Lxam
I never said social constructs don't exist, I said that how can someone say gender is a social construct, but then also say that people can identify with their preferred gender.You could say that gender is a social construct, but you could also say that money is a social construct as well. Should we just stop using money? The whole point we created money is to make trade easier. Same with gender. We created gender, so that we can make identifying a biological male as a man, and a biological female as a woman.Now this doesn't mean people shouldn't have the right to identify as they want to, I think that that would be against the U.S. first amendment, but if someone choses to identify as such, why should everyone else around act as if they are a different person and go against what humans have been believing for thousands of years.That would be like if someone said they were going to stop using money as currency, and just use items for trade. They could still function in society, but you can't expect everyone to immediately go and switch with them.
how can someone say gender is a social construct, but then also say that people can identify with their preferred gender.
When I say that gender is a social construct, I mean that it isn't an inherent part of biology, but rooted in culture and psychology. When culture changes, gender norms and definitions can as well.
Gender is a two-way street. One is identity, how one feels they fit gender roles and how they choose to express it. The other is how others interpret their gender expression and how they respond (i.e., using their preferred pronouns).
Another example of how your identity can affect a socially constructed role is the cliques in school. If I identify as a jock, I will likely join a sport, wear athletic clothing, and generally hang out with other jocks. There isn't a physical characteristic that definitively makes me a jock or not, it depends on how I express myself and how others respond. This same "jock" we just described might also be an honors student taking advanced math courses and earning college credit over the summer. I knew several kids in high school who would normally fit more the "geek" stereotype, but they also took part in sports and had friends in both cliques.
you could also say that money is a social construct as well. Should we just stop using money?
No. I never advocated for abolishing gender (though some do).
We created gender, so that we can make identifying a biological male as a man, and a biological female as a woman.
First, it would be inaccurate to say that we "created" gender in the same way that we created money, to compare to a previous example. Gender likely naturally arose from the jobs that each biological sex was suited for: men to physically demanding tasks like hunting and war, and women to child-rearing. Today, there is much less need for such a distinction. A woman can drive a semi or do accounting just as easily as a man, there is little to no physical hindrance to women in most careers.
Second, saying that gender is necessary to distinguish biological males and females is false. The need to identify these is exclusive to the act of reproduction. Anyone you're intending to have sex with should be happy to disclose what genitalia they have, but you don't ever need to know if the person you pass on the street has a penis or a vagina.
why should everyone else around act as if they are a different person and go against what humans have been believing for thousands of years.
Again, third gender cultures are historical evidence that humans are 1. perfectly capable of this, and 2. that calling it "what humans
have been believing for thousands of years." is simply not true.
I agree about freedom of speech. If you don't want to call someone he or she because you think they don't match your perception of what those mean, no one should force you to. Just don't be surprised if that person doesn't want to spend time with you.
That would be like if someone said they were going to stop using money as currency, and just use items for trade. They could still function in society, but you can't expect everyone to immediately go and switch with them.
Trans people aren't asking for you to get rid of gender norms, just to accommodate theirs. If 1.5% of the population decided to pay people with goats or shells instead of cash, businesses would come up with a way to accommodate that, not give up on currency. Plenty of freelance and independent contractors will accept goods and services in exchange for their work already, so this isn't entirely farfetched.
@Poly
And so, what will you constructively add to the debate.
The nuances of personality and mind are nurtured traits.
And soul is an assumption, or a nurtured assumption we consign to personality and mind.
The base reproductive systems of the human species are inherent and undeniably binary.
Male and female, sperm and egg.
Wherein lies men's hatred for women.
Only in your personality and mind Poly.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Just because a culture has existed, doesn't make it the right way to live.
why should everyone else around act as if they are a different person and go against what humans have been believing for thousands of years.
You can see why you're a hypocrite for saying both of these things, right?