The Torah Is "shit" According to Some NT Authors

Author: Stephen 2 years ago

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Stephen

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Stephen

11.17.2022 11:05AM

The Torah (/ˈtɔːrə, ˈtoʊrə/; Biblical Hebrew: תּוֹרָה‎ Tōrā, "Instruction", "Teaching" or "Law") is the compilation of the first five books of the Hebrew Bible, namely the books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.

These 5 books are believed to contain all the rules, regulations, laws and statutes of god. So why is it that these laws are considered to be " shit" by some authors of the New Testament ?

I would be grateful for any answers.

RationalMadman

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RationalMadman

11.17.2022 01:37PM

Christians jacked an entire religious text and said it is a prequel to theirs. XD

Mharman

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Mharman

11.17.2022 05:31PM

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@Stephen

Elaborate, please.

BrotherD.Thomas

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BrotherD.Thomas

11.17.2022 05:49PM

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@Stephen

@PGA2.0

@rosends

Stephen,

Uh, all of the laws mentioned in the Old Testament Torah are to be followed to the letter, simple because Jesus, AS GOD, said the following:

1. "I am the LORD, I change not." (Malachi 3:6)

2. “EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5)

3. "My covenant I will not break, Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips." ( PSALM 89:34)

4. "God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?" (Numbers 23:19)

Stephen, are you alluding to the JUDEO-Christian bible contradicting itself like PGA2.0 has done at his expense? Even ROSENDS, who I had to Bible Slap Silly®️ a while back, would agree with what I have posted above!

Topic's author

Stephen

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Stephen

11.17.2022 05:53PM

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@Mharman

Elaborate, please.

There are parts of scripture that the authors are saying that gods laws are "shit" and also seem to be implying that they are even null or void. I was wondering why that would be the case when the OT is also said to be revered as much as the New Testament by Christians?

rosends

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rosends

11.17.2022 05:57PM

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@BrotherD.Thomas

No, I wouldn't. But thanks for making the assumption.

Topic's author

Stephen

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Stephen

11.17.2022 06:08PM

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@BrotherD.Thomas

Stephen,

Uh, all of the laws mentioned in the Old Testament Torah are to be followed to the letter, simple because Jesus, AS GOD, said the following:

1. "I am the LORD, I change not." (Malachi 3:6)

2. “EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5)

3. "My covenant I will not break, Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips." ( PSALM 89:34)

4. "God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?" (Numbers 23:19)

Stephen, are you alluding to the JUDEO-Christian bible contradicting itself like PGA2.0 has done at his expense? Even ROSENDS, who I had to Bible Slap Silly®️ a while back, would agree with what I have posted above!

Well tell me Brother D. Why then would the so called Christians of NT refer to a holy book that claim to also revere, as "shit"?

Philippians 3:8 NIV

What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them [the laws of Torah/ Old Testament] garbage, that I may gain Christ.

And if one is to be clear what Paul? means by “grabage” in the above verse, read on.

Philippians 3:8 KJV

Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them[the laws of Torah/ Old Testament] but dung, that I may win Christ.

BrotherD.Thomas

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BrotherD.Thomas

11.17.2022 06:19PM

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@rosends

rosends,

YOUR QUOTE IN NOT AGREEING WITH JESUS' NEW TESTAMENT: "No, I wouldn't. But thanks for making the assumption."

Listen, I once again understand that you as a Jew is still upset that we Christians stole your Yahweh God and turned Him into Jesus of the Christian faith, where you DO NOT have a God anymore, okay, I get it! Therefore, you can't accept what Jesus' inspired words say relative to the topic in the New Testament, okay, okay!

I am sure you are going to address Stephen's initial post, are you not? Or, are you afraid that Jesus and I will Bible Slap you Silly®️ again? LOL!

Public-Choice

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Public-Choice

11.17.2022 07:48PM

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@Stephen

Philippians 3:8 is a reference to Paul's zealousness as a Pharisee. He upholds the value of the law in Romans, 2 Timothy 3:16, and other places. In fact, in Acts, the Berean Jews were called "noble" for investigating the Old Testament to see if the Apostles were saying the truth.

Romans 3:1-4:

Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God. 3 What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it? 4 May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written,

“That You may be justified in Your words,
And prevail when You are judged.” - NASB95

In this passage, Paul says the Jewish people were greatly blessed because they were entrusted with the oracles of God. This is complete respect for the Torah and all the other Old Testament books.

But he further explains later in the chapter:

31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law. - NASB95

So Paul clearly had deep respect for the law.

But in 2 Timothy 3:16-17 he goes further snd blatantly states that it is directly from the mouth of God and is profitable for all aspects of Christian living:

16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for [b]training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. NASB95

So it is apparent Paul was not calling the scriptures "shit" by any means. Paul has deep respect for the Scriptures, as evinced from his own writings.

The context for the passage you recite is:

2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; 3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, 4 although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.

7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, 9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. (NASB95)

From the context it is apparent the things he is counting as loss are his accomplishments in Judaism as a zealot and his personal following of the Law. He states "for whom I have suffered the loss of all things," e.g. his status and prominence as a zealot in Judaism. Those things he therefore counts as shit (yes. I realize there are translation wars over how that word is supposed to be translated in the Greek. I believe it is a curse word, but many scholars do not) in relation to knowing Jesus personally.

The axiom is not whether the law is shit, but rather, between personal righteousness and righteousness from God. While Paul was murdering Christians, nobody found blame in him before the Law. But as he states, real righteousness comes from faith in God.

It is for this reason that Paul also calls himself "the chief of sinners" in other passages, e.g.:

12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service, 13 even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief; 14 and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus. 15 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. 16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. - 1 Timothy 1:12-17 NASB95

We see here Paul stating that his persecution of the church was outright wrong and he blasphemed on top of that! So the parallel between this and Romans is that Paul is showing that you can do as best as you can, and check as many boxes as possible, but it doesn't matter because we are all sinners. We all fall short. Even those of us who work really hard at trying to follow all the commands and excel in them in the eyes of others, we still cannot make it in on our own merit.

So this is why it is counted as shit to Paul, because it is ultimately not enough to he saved. And that is why faith in God is the only way to forgiveness.

Topic's author

#10

Stephen

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Stephen

11.17.2022 08:32PM

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@Public-Choice

All very interesting but the thing here is, is Paul is clearly saying that being a devout Jew and abiding by the laws of God for all his years were a complete waste of time and had been "worthless" and waived them away with a dismissive hand and called them "shit" since he found Jesus.

And a simple search from the Greek translation goes a little further., calling it animal excrement. And saying the word to describe the Torah is a "polite way for offensive things which people, when bitterly cursing in anger, naturally refer to.

So it seems Paul? was spitting venom when he spoke these offensive words. I also think it was an attitude of out with the old and in with the new -religion.

But there again Paul was a self-confessed liar and would say anything that promoted his new way of thinking and his new religion. Not to mention save his own skin.

#11

rosends

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rosends

11.17.2022 09:02PM

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@BrotherD.Thomas

There is nothing for me to address. The top post was aimed at those who believe that the gospels have any value while they both embrace and deny the value of the earlier texts. As i have no interest in the gospels, what they say means nothing to me.

#12

Public-Choice

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Public-Choice

11.17.2022 09:52PM

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@Stephen

being a devout Jew and abiding by the laws of God for all his years were a complete waste of time
...
the word to describe the Torah is a "polite way for offensive things which people, when bitterly cursing in anger, naturally refer to.

I take issue with you claiming a Benjaminite and fellow Jewish person is calling the Torah "excrement." Especially since he goes to great lengths to quote from it, tells his student Timothy to make sure it is read in the synagogues, and expresses a deep love for it and it being the reason the Jewish people are specially blessed by God.

As the prophets make clear, there is an old and new covenant. Paul was expressing contempt with still following the old covenant when it is no longer in effect.

True Judaism follows the new covenant, since the messiah prophesied in Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 came and died and rose again in AD 0, 2022 years ago.

#13

BrotherD.Thomas

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BrotherD.Thomas

11.17.2022 11:16PM

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@rosends

rosends,

YOUR QUOTE OF NOT LISTENING TO "OUR" GOD NOW, WHO IS YAHWEH THAT WAS TURNED IN TO JESUS BY CHRISTIANS: " As i have no interest in the gospels, what they say means nothing to me."

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've heard this one before. You will have "interest" when our Jesus decides that your earthly presence is over, and where you start to smell sulfur before He strikes you dead for your one-way E-ticket ride to the sulfur lakes of HELL, praise Jesus' revenge!

“But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8)

#14

BrotherD.Thomas

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BrotherD.Thomas

11.18.2022 12:07AM

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@Stephen

Stephen,

In trying to answer your post #7, and trying to get a hold of Jesus in prayer to help me answer your said post, of which He has not gotten back to me as yet, all I can say is that when you include my post #4 to your post #7, Houston, we have a problem!

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#15

Stephen

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Stephen

11.18.2022 07:03AM

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@Public-Choice

being a devout Jew and abiding by the laws of God for all his years were a complete waste of time
...
the word to describe the Torah is a "polite way for offensive things which people, when bitterly cursing in anger, naturally refer to.
I take issue with you claiming a Benjaminite and fellow Jewish person is calling the Torah "excrement."

I am not surprised that you "take issue". When faced with biblical facts they don't like this is a normal reaction of Christians and I wouldn't expect anything less.

Especially since he goes to great lengths to quote from it, tells his student Timothy to make sure it is read in the synagogues, and expresses a deep love for it and it being the reason the Jewish people are specially blessed by God.

Whoever he may have been quoting it too makes no difference. As for the deep love you claim Paul? had for the Torah he certainly shows no respect for it and believed it to have been null and void, if the bible is to be believed. And you shouldn't be surprised that Paul? if indeed it was Paul that wrote it, to find Paul speaking out of both sides of his mouth.. Isn't Paul the person that is also said to have written Hebrews?

Well here is Paul again:

Hebrews 8:13 NIV

By calling this covenant “new,”he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. <<, This is Paul in action and taking it upon himself to do away with the old and ushering in his new religion and calling the old "shit"> Philippians 3:8 KJV

And again here we see here Paul? setting aside the old for the new because he say's it is weak and useless.

Hebrews 7:18-19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Paul was expressing contempt with still following the old covenant when it is no longer in effect.

Well that doesn't make sense does it? Why would one continue following old rules when they had been annulled and of no consequence?

I think what you are seeing here is Paul? playing both sides of the fence. And keep this in mind while you are trying to defend Paul's contempt for the Torah;

Hebrews 8:7-8

"For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another."

But sought one they did, didn't they?

Paul is often clearly shown in the bible to be two faced, saying one thing to his Jewish audience while saying another to the gentiles.

1 Corinthians 9:20-22

To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.

And here is Paul admitting to lying for the cause:

Romans 3:7 Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?”

I other words, he is not a "sinner" - bare faced liar - as long as it furthers his promotion of Jesus and the "new religion".

You can't beat what is spoken from the horses mouth , my friend. If the bible is to be believed.

#16

Deb-8-a-bull

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Deb-8-a-bull

11.18.2022 07:55AM

If one finds the Torah shit .

May i suggest you up the tempo of your moving back and forh whilst reading it.

OBVIOUSLY

The fatser ya go back and forh the more darn exciting the book gets.

#17

Deb-8-a-bull

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Deb-8-a-bull

11.18.2022 08:25AM

Any day now God could start on doing another book.

We know for a fact that. GODS DO BOOKS.

No religious person here thinks that GODS don't do books.

So i am cloes to sure that anyday now. The god thing is going to do another one of these books.

Its just.

Well when Eric writes down some shit that he said god told him what would he do with it.

Who'd belive him.

Our literacy rates have risen dramatically.

God can get HEAPS of people to jot stuff down for him these days.

Back when god did the OT he had to ask like 10 blokes before he got to a person that can dictate.

Anddddddd.

God wouldn't still speak in a scripture like format that he did in the first books.

Its the year 2000 .

He speaks like totaly normal now. ( English )

You might even see an emoji or two.

MAN and MAN can not ( eggplant ) emoji , or something.

The knew books are going to be awsome.

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#18

Stephen

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Stephen

11.18.2022 09:06AM

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@Deb-8-a-bull

Any day now God could start on doing another book.

They have already done that Deb.

The new gods on the block are the Corporations and Western governments are their new priests.

At one time when there was a natural disaster the Priests used to prey on the ignorant and uneducated, telling them they had upset "the lord their god through their sinning" so had to cough up more of their hard earned take home pay, live stock etc etc. It was a tax, Deb.

Now they cannot get away with blaming us for upsetting "the Lord through sinning" any longer, but they will still blame us for causing these natural disasters and will now charge us different taxes, such carbon tax because we have caused - according to them- climate change. Do you see the bullshit cycle of this, Deb?

They are purposely conflating a natural cyclical occurrence with mans sins - pollution.

Climate change come about simply because of the movement around the sun. It is an elliptical orbit taking the earth further away - ice age and then closer - the big thaw - every 1,116. The Sumerians knew about this, Deb and the priests, once they had usurped all the kings used this natural occurrence to take the piss out of the illiterate, ignorant superstitious and rob them blind. Just as the are doing today.

#19

Public-Choice

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Public-Choice

11.18.2022 01:58PM

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@Stephen

When faced with biblical facts they don't like this is a normal reaction of Christians and I wouldn't expect anything less.

The problem is that your facts are of the alternative variety. It is abundantly obvious from the usage of standard exegetical methods of interpretation that your opinion on Paul is completely wrong.

Paul literally called all Scripture God-breathed in the Greek. This includes the Torah. He literally stated it is to be used in all aspects of Christian living and doctrine. It is apparent that Paul did not think such a book is shit to anyone who is honest and seeking to do more than peddle disinformation and conspiracy theories about Christianity.

By calling this covenant “new,”he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. <<, This is Paul in action and taking it upon himself to do away with the old and ushering in his new religion and calling the old "shit"> Philippians 3:8 KJV

It amazes me, how, 2000 years later, the same lies continue to surface about Paul.

Let's use proper exegetical methods of interpretation used by scholars for a minute and leave playground hermeneutics where it belongs, among children.

For starters, the Scriptures ALWAYS mentioned the two covenants. Paul is not invalidating the Law. In Hebrews (assuming it is a speech by him) he is simply explaining what the Jews had known until they decided to revise history after Jesus came: that the old covenant is invalid when the Messiah arrives. He is NOT saying the scriptures are invalid. He is saying the very same thing that God told the people of Israel in Jeremiah 31, which he quotes verbatim following that reference you made (remember context):

31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” - NASB95

From this it is abundantly clear that God Himself abolished the old covenant when he died and rose again. This was always the plan.

But NONE of this says the Scriptures are abolished. The Scriptures are NOT the covenant. The COVENANT is outlined WITHIN SCRIPTURE.

Just look at what God, Himself stated: "I will write my law on their hearts."

Paul never invalidates the Law. But he does repeat God's own statements that the Old Covenant is repealed. That is what he means. With a New Covenant comes new laws, and there were honestly only revisions on the cleanliness laws and the ritual laws/observations of the seasons.

The parallels to the covenant in Deuteronomy 30-31 is apparent. A circumcision of the heart, a covenant to all people both far and near, a promise of restoration, and prophetic utterances about future events. The new covenant is now in standing, and the old covenant is repealed. This is what God requires, so we must obey it.

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#20

Stephen

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Stephen

11.18.2022 06:31PM

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@BrotherD.Thomas

Stephen,

In trying to answer your post #7, and trying to get a hold of Jesus in prayer to help me answer your said post, of which He has not gotten back to me as yet, all I can say is that when you include my post #4 to your post #7, Houston, we have a problem!

I agree with you entirely Brother D. #4 #7 do appear to be in conflict no matter who attempts to deny this problem and massage them away with other biblical verses that also conflict with the verse/s already in question.

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#21

Stephen

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Stephen

11.18.2022 06:37PM

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@Public-Choice

It is abundantly obvious from the usage of standard exegetical methods of interpretation that your opinion on Paul is completely wrong.

Not unless you are saying those are not the words of Paul, they are not. The point clearly is, that these are biblical verses and written in opposition to the laws of the Totah. So it not so much my opinion as it is biblical fact.

#22

Public-Choice

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Public-Choice

11.18.2022 06:44PM

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@Stephen

these are biblical verses and written in opposition to the laws of the Totah

No. They are verses written in opposition to Judaizers who were erroneously teaching Christians that all of the Old Testament laws are still binding even though Jesus instituted the new covenant outlined in the Prophets.

The Law is good if one uses it lawfully.

Topic's author

#23

Stephen

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Stephen

11.18.2022 07:05PM

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@Public-Choice

these are biblical verses and written in opposition to the laws of the Totah
No. They are verses written in opposition to Judaizers who were erroneously teaching Christians that all of the Old Testament laws are still binding even though Jesus instituted the new covenant outlined in the Prophets.

Indeed, that is why Paul? used the derogatory term for these OT laws of "dung" and "garbage". and rubbish etc . and it doesn't matter what bible you prefer or are a Catholic or devout Protestant like Tradsecret that claims to be able to translate ancient languages into English.

Yep – σκύβαλα (skubala) = shit.

One of the top scholarly lexicons of Greek words A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd Edition translates σκύβαλα as “refuse”, “garbage”, “human excrement”, “crud”, and “crap”.

"I forfeited all things; and I consider them crap so that I may gain Christ"…

Saint Paul says shit - Liturgy

I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ

and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ

and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

count them mere rubbish, so that I may gain Christ,

He's calling out the LAWS of the OT and dismissing them for newly discovered ones since he stopped being a bounty hunter of Christians and his claimed "vision": which is something else that is extremely questionable, .

30 days later

Topic's author

#24

Stephen

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Stephen

12.18.2022 08:48PM

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@Deb-8-a-bull

Do you remember this from above Deb?

Deb Wrote; Any day now God could start on doing another book.

Stephen wrote: They have already done that Deb.

The new gods on the block are the Corporations and Western governments are their new priests.
At one time when there was a natural disaster the Priests used to prey on the ignorant and uneducated, telling them they had upset "the lord their god through their sinning" so had to cough up more of their hard earned take home pay, live stock etc etc. It was a tax, Deb.

Now they cannot get away with blaming us for upsetting "the Lord through sinning" any longer, but they will still blame us for causing these natural disasters and will now charge us different taxes, such carbon tax because we have caused - according to them- climate change. Do you see the bullshit cycle of this, Deb?

They are purposely conflating a natural cyclical occurrence with mans sins - pollution.

Climate change come about simply because of the movement around the sun. It is an elliptical orbit taking the earth further away - ice age and then closer - the big thaw - every 1,116. The Sumerians knew about this, Deb and the priests, once they had usurped all the kings used this natural occurrence to take the piss out of the illiterate, ignorant superstitious and rob them blind. Just as the are doing today.

https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8244-the-torah-is-shit-according-to-some-nt-authors?page=1&post_number=18

The new gods have spoken Deb

BREAKING: European Union Reaches Agreement to Force Everyone in EU Countries to Pay for CO2 Emissions – First Step of Personal Carbon Credit System.

The Gateway Pundit previously reported that more British cities promoted a new scheme to ban privately-owned vehicles into certain areas without permits to reduce traffic and “help tackle climate change,” protesters called it “climate lockdown.”

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/12/breaking-european-union-reaches-agreement-force-everyone-eu-countries-pay-co2-emissions-first-step-personal-carbon-credit-system/

#25

Deb-8-a-bull

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Deb-8-a-bull

12.24.2022 02:02PM

Two more

10 days later

#26

zedvictor4

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zedvictor4

01.03.2023 08:13PM

The NT is shit according to a lot of people.

Topic's author

#27

Stephen

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Stephen

01.04.2023 07:00AM

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@zedvictor4

The NT is shit according to a lot of people.

But are any of them disciples or apostles or NT authors?

#28

zedvictor4

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zedvictor4

01.04.2023 07:12AM

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@Stephen

Disciples of Stephen the Atheist maybe.

And atheism is the New Testament.

And the Old Testament.

And the 2000 year old Arabian thing was a significant development of the GOD concept and general ignorance. Relative to intellectual, technological and human migration.

Which people love to write about.

Authors all.

Topic's author

#29

Stephen

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Stephen

01.04.2023 07:21AM

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@zedvictor4

The NT is shit according to a lot of people.

But are any of them disciples or apostles or NT authors?

Disciples of Stephen the Atheist maybe.

But not disciples or apostles of the lord Jesus and god of the Christians that is also the god of the OT.

#30

zedvictor4

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zedvictor4

01.04.2023 07:29AM

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@Stephen

True.

Not disciples of a generally naive deistic hypothesis. Led by a charismatic but deluded bloke who though that he was the son of a deity.

Outsheeping the sheep as David Icke would say.

I'm the son of GODDO you sinners.

Baaaaaaaaaaaa.