Eliminating Affirmative Action will Improve Race Relations Long-Term

Author: bmdrocks21

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Affirmative Action is one of the biggest barriers to improved relations among different racial groups. There is the obvious reason: AA leads to resentment by the individuals that are discriminated against based on characteristics they are born with in favor of others who have far lower test scores.

Under the current status quo, there is a heavily discriminatory system. Take for instance, the MCAT:

With MCAT scores of 24-26, admittance rates for racial groups to medical school are:
  • 6% for Asians
  • 8% for Whites
  • 56% for Blacks
With MCAT scores of 30-32:
  • 58% Asians
  • 63% Whites
  • 94% Blacks
In other words, where Whites and Asians have a very remote chance of admittance, Blacks have a 50/50 shot. Where Whites and Asians have a 50/50 shot, it is a near guarantee for Blacks. This will obviously lead to increased anger when certain groups with vastly superior scores are discriminated against for admittance and scholarships entirely based on characteristics they cannot control. This same pattern emerges for GPA, SAT score, and other indicators of scholastic and professional merit. But this argument is obvious and has been repeated ad nauseum. 

I think that for another reason, abolishing Affirmative Action will improve relations long-term. This is because the government's allowing of a racial basis for beneficial treatment inherently leads to the incentive to exploit that beneficial treatment. This creates an unending incentive to claim that a racial or ethnic group is oppressed simply so that it can reap the rewards of being a supposedly downtrodden group.

Previously, in the 1930s (before Affirmative Action), there was vehement protests when the census created the category of Mexican American instead of including them as White. Previously, LULAC (League of United Latin American Citizens) was very pro-assimilationist and patriotic. https://www.heritage.org/civil-society/commentary/the-invention-hispanics-what-it-says-about-the-politics-race

Hispanic is in general a meaningless term related to racial/ethnic identity. As a study of the term puts it "The Latino classification is distinct from all other racial or ethnic classifications employed in the United States as it is not based on shared physical appearance or geographical origin, instead Latinos are those who hail from a portion of the territories that once belonged to the Spanish Empire regardless of their ancestry or physical appearance. The diversity within the Latino classification means that it is unclear what is being measured when the Latino classification is used..." https://compass.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/soc4.12836

This absurd term that means little in terms of cultural heritage or customs was created because having a racial minority status could reap rewards for such groups. There was a political and economic incentive to create aggrieved classes of people. That is why the term was adopted in the early 1970s, just as this Affirmative Action policy was created, allowing specific benefits based on racial classification. It was a categorization created to achieve power and receive government money.

In order to heal racial divisions, which are now apparently much worse than they have been within the past twenty years, very likely due to recent calls for "equity" meaning equal outcomes, which would require much more vicious discrimination than ever before. https://news.gallup.com/poll/1687/race-relations.aspx

In order to heal race relations, we must eliminate the incentive for groups of people to demonize others and manufacture or renew long past grievances in order to receive governmental, scholastic, and professional benefits, while also rewarding assimilation to the American way of life. I'm convinced that, had we continued to will that people assimilate to American culture after the end of segregation and had not created systems of legalized discrimination in favor of minority groups, the race problem would be all but nonexistent today.
Greyparrot
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Well, on on hand it kinda sucks because I can't continue to go around being African American on paper since there won't be any benefit to doing that anymore....
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@Greyparrot
It’s for the best, GP. Maybe someday, they won’t lay you off for being White on skin!

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@bmdrocks21
A part of the reason why I moved from a mostly all black city to one with 5% blacks is because I couldn't get a job teaching due to the color of my skin there. I would go to the interviews and they would take one look at me and say "thanks but no thanks." I even got the boot from TFA. The administration believed only same skin colors could work in education...smh...whatevs, I'll just go where I am wanted for double the pay and the folks back in New Orleans can endlessly complain that they cant find any good teachers on the basis of merit.

I've worked for 4 different schools up here in the past 10 years and never failed to land those jobs on the 1st interview.... Definitely wasn't a "me" problem.
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@Greyparrot
A part of the reason why I moved from a mostly all black city to one with 5% blacks is because I couldn't get a job teaching due to the color of my skin there. I would go to the interviews and they would take one look at me and say "thanks but no thanks." The administration believed only same skin colors could work in education...smh...whatevs, I'll just go where I am wanted for double the pay and the folks back in New Orleans can endlessly complain that they cant find any good teachers on the basis of merit.

Double the pay, being respected by (at least some) students, much safer. Sounds like you dodged a bullet

I've worked for 4 different schools up here in the past 10 years and never failed to land those jobs on the 1st interview
Curious why you move schools that often. Need quite a few years to vest in for pension benefits and get tenure.
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@bmdrocks21
Curious why you move schools that often. Need quite a few years to vest in for pension benefits and get tenure.
First off, I have my own retirement that's far and away better than the district government pension because I'm a fkn awesome investor. Secondly, administrations change and the environment changes too (think Covid)... and If I have the luxury of being free to work where I want, I will exercise that freedom. I'm damn happy at my job and have been for 10 years doing everything from in-home tutoring to specialized care for disabled kids in and out of a classroom setting, coordinated zoom sessions during Covid, individual prep work for SAT and GED, to even doing a year of regular teaching for a Geometry class. Worked at Mathnasium for a year to get the experience of abstract math teaching. I even did a year of full education for a 16 year old that was on home arrest with an ankle bracelet awaiting trial for murder. I like to change it up every now and then to challenge myself or I will get bored.

Also, I am union free as well since the state recently allowed right to work, so I can do a lot of things most teachers cannot do like negotiate conditions under the table with the out-of-district coordinator and the vice principal of the high school off-contract.

And yeah, it does help that I am also damn good at my job. This year I was able to get my one-on-one disabled student ahead of task within the span of ONE MONTH when every other teacher that had him the previous 2 years couldn't get him to pass his core History or English. (He is taking 9th grade courses this year as a Junior.) Just this last week, I was bored off my ass since he had nothing to work on since the behavior correction regimen I created for him in collaboration with his support team got him to submit even his long English projects due weeks in advance within a matter of days...

If you see me posting during school hours, it's because I'm bored AF.
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@Greyparrot
right-wing douchebag or not, if what you're saying is true that is great and frankly quite a left-wing achievement in my eyes.

The mark of the best teachers is how they handle their least capable students.
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Lol, I don't know how many times I have tried to tell you I am not "right wing"
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@oromagi
Any major disagreements with OP?
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You'll get no defense of Affirmative Action form me.  I've never found reverse racially specific public policy particularly corrective or consistent with the principles of classical Liberalism.

Your thesis is still trash, though.   Racism does not stem from resentments over public policy or any other rational  criteria.

Racism will improve long term because that old-fashioned social construct is rapidly wiped out by sexual mingling with increasingly less regard for phenotype, not because racists are suddenly satisfied by increased equality in medical school acceptance rates.   Americans can't discriminate against Irish and Italians anymore because those two groups are  now too integrated with the rest of European Americans to make the distinction.  The Hispanic distinction is rapidly becoming just as impossible to separate. Americans will fuck the hate away because that's what humans do naturally.
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@bmdrocks21
Affirmative Action if blindly followed indefinitely, sets itself on the slippery slope towards the very problems it hopes to combat.

At the same time, people with generational disadvantages, should be given a leg up to assist them in opportunity to enter various fields. A not so complex way to do this, would be free state college for the top students at any highschool.
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AA, while devised with honestly good intensions went south the moment it was implemented. 
It set minorities up for failure with special treatment in high school that resulted in them being ill-equipped to handle the rigors and pressure of higher education. As a result, minorities dropped out of school - both high school and college - at higher rates than whites and/or Asians, especially blacks, namely. 

This country was designed to be and meant to flourish as a meritocracy applied to ALL; it was never designed to be a special needs advancement for minorities. 
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have been for 10 years doing everything from in-home tutoring to specialized care for disabled kids in and out of a classroom setting, coordinated zoom sessions during Covid, individual prep work for SAT and GED, to even doing a year of regular teaching for a Geometry class. Worked at Mathnasium for a year to get the experience of abstract math teaching. I even did a year of full education for a 16 year old that was on home arrest with an ankle bracelet awaiting trial for murder. 
It sounds like you simply wear out your welcome at these gig jobs of yours.

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@oromagi
Your thesis is still trash, though.   Racism does not stem from resentments over public policy or any other rational  criteria.
Government-enforced segregation was a public policy that clearly caused a lot of resentment by the groups negatively impacted. So why is a thesis trash when some groups are now negatively impacted by a policy to favor other groups with less deserving qualifications? The policy allows use of racial information, so it creates an explicitly racial issue. It is a barrier to improved race relations. So, I think you’d have a hard case to make saying that segregation didn’t make some black people hate white people. In the same fashion, Affirmative Action creates resentment through squashed potential.

And also, how is the thesis that creating a very powerful incentive to claim to be from an oppressed group incorrect either? We live in a country that has fake hate crimes because that can help you get ahead. If you have to make up grievances and attacks from other racial groups to justify valuable rewards, I think that says a lot about your incentive structure. Public policy isn’t everything, but it has a strong top-down effect on how groups interact with each other. Get rid of the incentive to demonize supposed oppressor races and you’ll be well on your way to fixing racial problems

Racism will improve long term because that old-fashioned social construct is rapidly wiped out by sexual mingling with increasingly less regard for phenotype, not because racists are suddenly satisfied by increased equality in medical school acceptance rates.   Americans can't discriminate against Irish and Italians anymore because those two groups are  now too integrated with the rest of European Americans to make the distinction.  The Hispanic distinction is rapidly becoming just as impossible to separate. Americans will fuck the hate away because that's what humans do naturally.
But why did those third and fourth generation Irish, Italians, Germans, etc feel fine with intermarrying? It’s because they didn’t have a deep connection to those cultures anymore. But your appearance/race is much more salient and isn’t reliant on your parents passing their parents’ customs.

Think back to the Rwandan genocide: we probably couldn’t tell a Hutu from a Tutsi, but somehow even those Africans had a genocide

Race relations have changed a lot over the years. Currently today, there is more racial intermarrying and more discriminatory government policies. I wonder which led race relations to drop to the worst level in the past 20 years
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Race relations have fluctuated very widely over the years. Currently today, there is more racial intermarrying and more discriminatory government policies. I wonder which led race relations to become at the worst level in the past 20 years
It aint the marrying lolz.

But your appearance/race is much more salient and isn’t reliant on your parents passing their parents’ customs.
Part of America's problem with institutionalized racism comes from government employees continuing to teach kids in public schools that their skin matters. That has to stop. No amount of fucking can fix that problem.
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@TWS1405
This country was designed to be and meant to flourish as a meritocracy applied to ALL; it was never designed to be a special needs advancement for minorities. 
No world power can hope to stay powerful unless it values the promotion of merit. Giving the brightest people the best education will push us forward much more effectively than giving people with mediocre intelligence an opportunity that they can’t take advantage of
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No world power can hope to stay powerful unless it values the promotion of merit. Giving the brightest people the best education will push us forward much more effectively than giving people with mediocre intelligence an opportunity that they can’t take advantage of
But I like Kamala!
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@Greyparrot
Part of America's problem with institutionalized racism is continuing to teach kids in public schools that their skin matters. That has to stop. No amount of fucking can fix that problem.
Yeah I think a much easier way to fix the problem is just to stop allowing groups to extract benefits on racial grounds and telling people to think of themselves on racial grounds (ie. Anti-racism schooling)

Even the lighter skinned Mexicans can’t get along with the more “indigenous” looking ones. It would require a lot of effort, moreso than just mere chance, to make people all look like a homogenous mass than to just end policies and teach a little differently

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@Greyparrot
But I like Kamala!
Sure you do, buddy. Now face the padded wall
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@Barney
Affirmative Action if blindly followed indefinitely, sets itself on the slippery slope towards the very problems it hopes to combat.

At the same time, people with generational disadvantages, should be given a leg up to assist them in opportunity to enter various fields. A not so complex way to do this, would be free state college for the top students at any highschool.

Exactly this. If all lives matter, that's putting your money where your mouth is.

A nation with no free college or healthcare is an absurdity. It might sound so simple but society is an agreement. Money is an agreement. Money is serious privilege. This thread is to cry about an underprivileged class refusing to just lay down and die. America is a nation in which the rich are fair game to be eaten.

And all that even if one race was never enslaved to another. 
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@Barney
Affirmative Action if blindly followed indefinitely, sets itself on the slippery slope towards the very problems it hopes to combat.

At the same time, people with generational disadvantages, should be given a leg up to assist them in opportunity to enter various fields. A not so complex way to do this, would be free state college for the top students at any highschool

I think that would be a great policy. It would create more competition to get to those top spots. It would also allow entrance into college based on merit. A small issue I could perceive is that some high schools are much better than others, but as long as it is just an offer to pay for college and not a mandate that they are let in, it wouldn’t matter.
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@badger
A nation with no free college or healthcare is an absurdity.
He isn’t proposing free university for everyone, just those that are intelligent. We already have plenty of grants and scholarships for intelligent, poor students. This is just a moderate expansion of that.

Most of you Euro countries don’t seem to realize that you can’t afford those nice benefits for many more generations. That’s why you’re importing and plan to import millions of immigrants, although many of them are public charges that’ll accelerate the downfall of that socialist utopia facade you have going on
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He isn’t proposing free university for everyone
It's still the most sense I've seen anyone make on this website. 
badger
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It's fight or die. Where the number in your bank account is your education and healthcare, you're not going to hear arguments which would diminish that number. You're pretending at civilised argument. 
badger
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The problem with the United States of America is your people have nothing to honour. 
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@badger
I don't oppose people forming 'new countries, that force it's people to care for the poor,
But I'm not inclined to live my life for others, in particular.

America, it's identity, it as a representation of it's people,
Ourselves as individuals,
Our families, communities,
I could go on.
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@bmdrocks21
Even the lighter skinned Mexicans can’t get along with the more “indigenous” looking ones. It would require a lot of effort, moreso than just mere chance, to make people all look like a homogenous mass than to just end policies and teach a little differently
I got in a small argument with some weebo girl about Day of the Dead and how whites are insensitive to celebrate it...

I immediately said, so you wouldn't allow a white Mexican to celebrate it???

How about we don't exclude cultural membership on the basis of skin color, how's that for progress?

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@bmdrocks21
So a few things:

Where I live it is 50/50 split between black people and white people. The education statistics for my city show black people on average performing worse than ESL students on some subjects. This was when I was entirely confused, because the black people I interact with in my city on a daily basis are not mentally incompetent, so I didn't know why this was occurring.

So I asked my educated, college graduated and highly intelligent black friends why this could be. And they told me that there is a real movement in the black community to ignore education. There's a plethora of reasons for it, but that is the reality. The other reality was that many black children grow up in a single-parent household and that has been shown to impact academic performance.

So the problem isn't that black people just get lower test scores because they are black. The problem is that the community has been treated like dogshit by the federal government until around 2000.

In the 1600s-1800s the gross majority of black people lived in the south and were slaves.

Then from the 1800s-1960s they were subjected to segregation, oppressive rules, blsck codes, and corporate racism. This affecter southern black people the most seriously, but in the north many companies were simply not hiring black people, and they used zoning enforcement to keep black people segregated into poor neighborhoods and bad public schools.

Then in the 70s the war on poverty was simply just a ploy to keep black people on welfare so they would vote Democrat. Then in the 80s black people were culturally attacked with pastors being paid off to support abortion. The rappers and other black celebrities were paid off to promote single-parent households, and the CIA purposely sold crack to black people so they could be arrested and used as prison labor.

Then in the 90s Bill Clinton got the absolutely moronic idea that stop and frisk should apply to anyone who isn't white. And that also led to a lot of false arrests and false convictions.

It wasn't until 2000 when most of these bullshit policies ended and the remonstrance racist policies reached their peak in 2019 under Trump, who still managed to slip in a few racist policies because of ignorance on race relations between the police and black community and housing laws that are decades old.

However, from 2015-2022, there has heen a vapidly poisonous movement to make black people racist and black supremacist. The same movement is working to foment hatred on the right, particularly for white conservatives, to see black people as hateful and trying to take their property. People on both sides are joining this racist movement against each other and it is alarming.

The point is that black people are scoring worse on tests because a significantly larger portion don't want to go to school for a variety of reasons. The potential is equal, but black people want to apply themselves to other things than education. And, yes, affirmative action WILL make this worse.

But in 2022, with the advent of the internet anf free encyclopedias and open course college classes, the education system is rendered obsolete anyways. There is no reason to go to college to get a degree unless your job specifically requires it. College is pretty much pointless, so is the schooling system.
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@badger
The problem with the United States of America is your people have nothing to honour. 
How so? If Americans have nothing to honor, what on earth do the Irish have?
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@bmdrocks21
How so? If Americans have nothing to honor, what on earth do the Irish have?

A foundation of compassion, fairness and equal opportunity. That's what free college and healthcare buys you. Without it all of your arguments are in bad faith. You lot have no truth but a number in your bank account. 

Your OP shites on about relations while trying to deprive a poorer people of a benefit. In my country, you might have a point. In yours to lose is to die.