EXCLUSIVE: INTERNAL EMAILS: CDC Officials Told They SPREAD MISINFORMATION

Author: Public-Choice

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"U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) officials were alerted that they spread misinformation about child COVID-19 deaths but still did not issue corrections, according to emails obtained by The Epoch Times.

Drs. Katherine Fleming-Dutra and Sara Oliver were told within days of presenting to the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), the CDC’s vaccine advisory panel, in June that statistics from a preprint study they shared were wrong, the emails show. But after internal discussion about how to respond, neither the CDC nor the officials corrected the false information.

Fleming-Dutra and Oliver both referenced the study, which has not been peer reviewed, while the CDC’s advisers weighed whether to recommend the agency grant emergency authorization for COVID-19 vaccines for babies and toddlers.

The committee ultimately recommended the CDC authorize Pfizer and Moderna shots for children as young as 6 months of age and the CDC quickly accepted the recommendation.

A week later, CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky appeared to cite the false statistics while urging parents to get their children vaccinated, despite no evidence the vaccines protect against severe illness and despite the clinical trials returning substandard or unreliable results for shielding against infection."

***THEY SHOW THE EMAILS IN THE ARTICLE***

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@Public-Choice

  • I have warned PC before regarding this source so the fact that he continues to rely on it is telling
  • The Epoch Times is owned and operated by the Falun Gong religious cult and their leader Li Hongzhi 
  • Since escapees report that members of this cult have little control over who they marry or what profession they choose or where they live, it is reasonable to assume that these reporters have no control over what stories they print or the truth of those stories.  They are required to attend daily sessions where the writings and will of Li are constantly consulted.
  • Mediabias/factcheck:  "The Epoch Times is an international, multi-language news media company in print and online. The Epoch Times was first published in New York in April 2000 (in Chinese only) and the online edition in August 2000. In 2003, The Epoch Times launched an online edition in English, printing as a newspaper in New York in 2004.  The Epoch Times was founded by John Tang and a group of Chinese-American Falun Gong practitioners. The Epoch Times publishes in 21 languages in 35 countries across five continents. Their focus topics include sections for world and national news, op-eds, sports, entertainment, business, arts and culture, travel, and health.
  • On December 20, 2019,  Facebook took down more than 600 accounts connected to The Epoch Times. According to an NBC News report, “The network was called ‘The BL’ and was run by Vietnamese users posing as Americans, using fake photos generated by algorithms to simulate real identities. The Epoch Media group, which pushes a variety of pro-Trump conspiracy theories, spent $9.5 million on ads to spread content through the now-suspended pages and groups.”
  • Further, the Epoch Times frequently publishes pseudoscience news, such as Supernormal Abilities Developed Through Meditation: Dr. Dean Radin Discusses. They also publish false claims from Pseudoscience and anti-vaccination activist Joeseph Mercola who has a long track record of publishing misinformation. Finally, the above referenced NBC News report states, “In addition to claims that alien abductions are real and the “deep state engineered the drug epidemic,” the channel pushes the QAnon conspiracy theory, which falsely posits that the same “Spygate” cabal is a front for a global pedophile ring being taken down by Trump.”
  • Overall, we rate The Epoch Times Right Biased and Questionable based on the publication of pseudoscience and the promotion of propaganda and conspiracy theories, as well as numerous failed fact checks.

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@oromagi
Falun Gong religious cult

I destroyed you on this one last time. Do I need to do it again?

They are no more a cult than buddhism is. The fact you listen to CCP propaganda is astounding.

Since escapees report that members of this cult have little control over who they marry or what profession they choose or where they live,
The funny thing about this is that there are no actual witness statements about this. It is kind of just FBI bullshit based on "anonymous sources." Also, The Epoch Times has an office based in New York City and they employ plenty of non-religious adherents. So they regularly break their "rules" all the time, apparently.

Mediabias/factcheck:
Media Bias Fact Check is run by a hard-left sciencism believer who thinks consensus equals science and that the supernatural doesn't even exist. The owner is not only an atheist but is more of an anti-supernatural person than Richard Dawkins, and that is saying something.

The Epoch Media group, which pushes a variety of pro-Trump conspiracy theories, spent $9.5 million on ads to spread content through the now-suspended pages and groups.”
The Epoch Media Group was actually dropped by The Epoch Times years before this happened. You're talking about Epoch Vietnam, which, despite the similar name, is not currently affiliated with The Epoch Times and has not been for about 10 years. The Epoch Times dropped years before for doing precisely what you said they were.

the Epoch Times frequently publishes pseudoscience news, such as Supernormal Abilities Developed Through Meditation: Dr. Dean Radin Discusses. 
It is an interview with a doctor. Is it wrong for news outlets to conduct interviews?

the channel pushes the QAnon conspiracy theory, which falsely posits that the same “Spygate” cabal is a front for a global pedophile ring being taken down by Trump.”
First of all, there is no "Qanon conspiracy." Qanon is a political cult that follows sporadic droppings by a person named "Q." Additionally, the REAL Qanon conspiracy is that there is going to be a One World Government and that the current elites are satanist pedophiles.

But they believe all sorts of things. Moreover, The Epoch Times does NOT adhere to Qanon. They are not members of Qanon. And, while they do believe in a global elite, they also recognize that there are many different sex trafficking and pedophile rings. They do not endorse or support Qanon in any capacity.

Goodness gracious, man. You have to read primary sources. Your sources are an atheist militant liberal who has a grudge against anyone who doesn't agree with "consensus." And NBC, which has a major media deal with the Chinese Government.

So you believe two people who write propaganda for a living.

I have actually read large sections of the Falun Gong website and compared it to buddhism (the REAL Eastern Buddhism, not the fake western Buddhism propaganda) and it is literally just another form of buddhism. Their books are available to read online for free at their website.

Obviously I don't believe it is true any more than any other religion except for Christianity. But that doesn't mean there are no elements of truth in it.
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@oromagi
once again, attacking the source without disputing the facts
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@oromagi
it is reasonable to assume that these reporters have no control over what stories they print or the truth of those stories.  They are required to attend daily sessions where the writings and will of Li are constantly consulted.
This one right here is the most factually false thing in your entire tirade.

First of all, it is called Falun Dafa officially, but it is also called Falun Gong.

The book they consult is called the Zhuan Falun.

I'll go straight to Li's writings himself (the Zhuan Falun) to completely discredit your beliefs about this religion:

Dafa is the wisdom of the Creator. It is the bedrock of creation, what the heavens, earth, and universe are built upon. It encompasses all things, from the utmost minuscule to the vastest of the vast, while manifesting differently at each of the cosmic body’s planes of existence. Out of the depths of the cosmic body, the tiniest of particles first appear, with layers upon layers of countless particles following, ranging in size from small to great, reaching all the way to the outer planes that humankind knows—those of atoms, molecules, planets, and galaxies—and beyond, to what is still larger. [1]
This is no different than the buddhist belief that Brahman is in everything and everyone.

If a human being is to understand the mysteries of the universe, space-time, and the human body, he must take up cultivation of a true Way and achieve true enlightenment, raising his plane of being. Through cultivation his moral character will elevate, and once he has learned to discern what is truly good from evil, and virtue from vice, and he goes beyond the human plane, he will see and gain access to the realities of the universe as well as the lives of other planes and dimensions. [1]
This is the Buddha's same concept of enlightenment. Doing good things will enlighten a person to the mysteries of the universe.

So what is this spiritual way of enlightenment? Li explains it is basically Buddhism:

You will get very little out of the practice if there are impure motives still with you as you try to learn it. In truth, the spiritual journey is none other than an ongoing process of learning to let go of the things of this world that we may be attached to. If you are someone who competes fiercely with others, who tries to cheat and outwit people, or who even tramples on others to come out on top, then you really have to change your ways. It’s especially imperative for you as someone who is here to learn the practice today. [2]
This is no different than what all forms of Buddhism teach, that enlightenment is letting go of bad thoughts and material possessions.

But also notice here how Li explicitly states that people who cheat and abuse and try to destroy others to succeed need to change their ways. He here is asserting an honest moral character. Therefore, people who practice Falun Dafa must be honest and have good intentions.

But moreover he even affirms many Buddhist beliefs:
In Buddhism there has long been a belief that when one’s divinity shines through, it is moving to higher beings throughout the many planes of the universe. All who behold it will wish to provide help, and will do so unconditionally. Buddhists believe that higher beings expect nothing in return when they save someone from this world; they don’t affix any price, and their help is always unconditional. [2]
Li also tells followers with ailing bodies to seek medical care and also purify their mind of evil thoughts before going further in Falun Dafa:

So what do we do? We cleanse their bodies for them so that progress in our practice will be possible. The first, most basic stage of the spiritual journey involves thoroughly and completely cleansing your body, as well as clearing out all of the bad things in your head, the cloud of karma engulfing your body, and the factors compromising your health. Without this cleansing it would be hard for you to make spiritual progress, plagued as it were by a body dark and foul, and a mind that unclean. Our practice doesn’t work on the basic kind of energy known as chi.* You needn’t work on such basic things with our practice. We boost you past that stage, so that you begin with a body free of ailment. But at the same time, we still provide you with everything that one would normally develop as a foundation at the basic stage of practice, ready-made. This means you start right off at an advanced stage. [2]
So this religion is nothing remotely similar to what your sources claimed about it. It is simply just another form of Buddhism. Li, himself, did not ascribe any sort of god status to himself and even told his followers not to grow attached to having healing powers, as attachment is ultimately what a practicer is trying to avoid. This is basic buddhism.

SOURCES:

Public-Choice
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But, just to clarify, I do not believe this religion is true. I also do not believe that healing abilities come from magic energies and special rituals, like many Buddhists do.

I believe true healing only comes from Jesus Christ. And I have been personally healed of things. I also know people personally who have been healed by Jesus, and then went to doctors who confirmed their healings. So I know from actual evidence that Falun Dafa is wrong, but that doesn't mean it is a cult.

Moreover, I know people who have the gift of healing. I also know people who have the gift of prophecy. So the only REAL enlightenment comes from God, not following some sort of mysticism or buddhism or other New Age type religion.
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@3RU7AL
once again, attacking the source without disputing the facts

Which is perfectly legitimate. Only a crazy doesn't realise that.

We can't be studied debunkers on every topic. If you've got a history, you've got to work harder for your "facts". 
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Moreover, I know people who have the gift of healing. I also know people who have the gift of prophecy. So the only REAL enlightenment comes from God, not following some sort of mysticism or buddhism or other New Age type religion.
Only in America. 
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Only in America. 
I don't understand. I am a epistemic logic thinker. I do not just accept things at their face value but I investigate it and hold it to logic.

These people told me things I never told them about myself, and they never met me before or knew who I was.

And it isn't that vague bullshit like "someone close to you passed away of _____. Their name began with a P or an A." It was real, detailed, specific stuff.

And when three of these people all say the same thing, in the same wording, at completely different times, years apart from each other, you tend to not believe it is just a "coincidence."

How do three random people, at completely different years and time intervals, all give a person the exact same prophecy, in the exact same wording, without knowledge of the other prophets doing it or any knowledge that I had even been prophesied over previously? That HAS to be supernatural. That's impossibly coincidental.

I personally believe that 90% of psychics are faking it. I think mentalists make a lot of money pretending to be psychics and they do the whole microphones all over the auditorium, digging into people's facebook pages and pairing with their phones via bluetooth to mine their data and other stuff to appear "clairvoyant."

But the thing is, this didn't happen at one of those "shows." This happened in individual gatherings of people or in one-on-one occasions. And all three said the same exact wording and phrase. So it was entirely different.
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@badger
always attack the speaker and never the content
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I believe you two would be referred to as "suckers" in the business. 
Public-Choice
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@badger
I believe you two would be referred to as "suckers" in the business.
If you believe there is no spiritual realm at all, you're a bigger sucker than the person the goes to the psychic.

I personally know people who have witnessed demonic possessions. I have seen real videos of demonic possessions. This stuff is real.

But thay doesn't mean every prophet, psychic, faith healer, etc. is legitimate. There definitely is a lot of charlatans out there. I don't engage with psychics at all and I do not just randomly believe a person is a faith healer because someone got out of a wheelchair. I know there's charlatans out there.

But when it personally happens to you and people you know and they went to their family doctors (not special doctors or doctors recommended by the faith healers) who confirmed they were healed, that is irrefutable evidence.

You're the "sucker" if you think otherwise.
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@badger
If you've got a history, you've got to work harder for your "facts". 
The appeal to authority fallacy is the oldest intellectually dishonest trick in the book that there is.

The ancient Greek politicians told people that the earth is flat because they said so and because the gids said it to them. People who questioned the authorities back then were murdered.

And you want to tell me that a person should be believed solely on their position of influence?
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Falun Gong religious cult
It is sad but also fortunate that Americans have a reliable source the Falun Gong other than their incompetent CDC.
China released DNA of Covid-19 virus to the WHO as soon as it was identified. They also shutdown Wuhan and absorbed the economic losses to control the spread. Now they are helping Americans deal with their lying government.
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@Public-Choice
The appeal to authority fallacy is the oldest intellectually dishonest trick in the book that there is.

First off, I made no appeals to authority. I applied a "boy who cried wolf" kinda moral. Lunatics can be dismissed out of hand on the basis of their being lunatics. That's exceedingly practical. 

Even so, appeal to authority is not a real fallacy. We all consult authorities all the time about a myriad of things. Is it fallacious that I go to a doctor about a cough? No obviously not. We specialise. Probably the chief benefit of civilisation. And let's call them specialists then. It is perfectly reasonable, when presented with a problem outside of our specialty, to consult the specialists that deal with those sort of problems. If we had to know it all ourselves, we would know little at all. 

Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
-- Mark Twain
That quote is about anyone who thinks appeal to authority is an actual fallacy. 
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@3RU7AL
--> @oromagi
once again, attacking the source without disputing the facts

--> @badger
always attack the speaker and never the content
Well stated.
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Not a chance. My Twain quote is spot on. Nobody has ever used it better. 
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@badger
Which is perfectly legitimate. Only a crazy doesn't realise that.

We can't be studied debunkers on every topic. If you've got a history, you've got to work harder for your "facts". 

I believe you two would be referred to as "suckers" in the business. 
The credibility/integrity of a source may dictate whom you personally trust, but in no way does it affect the assessment and evaluation of fact. The only exception of which I can think is if the source is speaking directly to the content of his/her mind.

First off, I made no appeals to authority.
No, but you are defending it.

I applied a "boy who cried wolf" kinda moral.
Which is a nice folkway about not lying. Doesn't help your case, though.

Lunatics can be dismissed out of hand on the basis of their being lunatics.
If a lunatic tells you that Sparrows are bipedal, and an ornithologist states that they're not, do you believe an ornithologist just because he/she is an ornithologist?

Even so, appeal to authority is not a real fallacy.
Yes, it is.

That quote is about anyone who thinks appeal to authority is an actual fallacy. 
Citing anecdotal quotes will not help your case.
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@Athias
The credibility/integrity of a source may dictate whom you personally trust, but in no way does it affect the assessment and evaluation of fact.
As I have already stated, we cannot be studied debunkers on every topic. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, well... might be president of the United States. 

No, but you are defending it.

I was defending ad hom initially. I suppose they're two sides of the same coin though. 

Which is a nice folkway about not lying. Doesn't help your case, though.
It illustrates a practicality in ad hominem. 

If a lunatic tells you that Sparrows are bipedal, and an ornithologist states that they're not, do you believe an ornithologist just because he/she is an ornithologist?

I can count the legs on a bird myself. Where it came to deeper facts on bird kind, I might take the consensus of ornithologists at large to be safe. Just as I might shop around with doctors. I wouldn't throw a plumber in there just because.

Yes, it is.

Isn't.

Citing anecdotal quotes will not help your case.

Again, it illustrates the danger in this so-called fallacy. Throw out authority in favour of studied idiocy. 
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@badger
As I have already stated, we cannot be studied debunkers on every topic.
Why is that anyone else's concern but yours?

It illustrates a practicality in ad hominem. 
You may find use in it in your personal life, but it does not affect the assessment and evaluation of fact.

I can count the legs on a bird myself.
Can you? Are you suggesting that facts can be determined independent of one's presumed "authority" on the subject?

Where it came to deeper facts on bird kind
First, why are you modifying facts with "deeper"? Second, it is not a question of the extent of one's knowledge, but how one determines fact. Just like one's "authority" in ornithology bears no influence on your ability to count the legs on a Sparrow, one's "authority" does not affect the assessment and evaluation of fact.
 
Isn't.
Yes, it is. Your contention has nothing to do with logic; just personal preference.

Again, it illustrates the danger in this so-called fallacy. Throw out authority in favour of studied idiocy. 
Non-sequitur.
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@Athias
Why is that anyone else's concern but yours?

The truths you hold affect me. You and your antivaxxer friends may well bring back polio. 

Can you? Are you suggesting that facts can be determined independent of one's presumed "authority" on the subject?

I'm suggesting that you go to college and study virology if you want to have opinions on viruses. Otherwise your "facts" are dangerous nonsense. I would generally discourage consulting anyone but a doctor about health needs. 
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@badger
The truths you hold affect me.
How so?

You and your antivaxxer friends may well bring back polio.
How do you figure?

I'm suggesting that you go to college and study virology if you want to have opinions on viruses.
Since when does one need a college education to maintain an opinion?

Otherwise your "facts" are dangerous nonsense.
Nonsense in what respect?

I would generally discourage consulting anyone but a doctor about health needs. 
Non sequitur.
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@Public-Choice
They are no more a cult than buddhism is.
  • Exactly
    • https://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=70,4410,0,0,1,0#.Y2ABFnbMK70
    • Like any other major religions in the world, Buddhism also has its fair share of cults. Whether the leader is called Guru Rinpoche, Sifu or Bhante, as long as there is tendency to use and abuse the Dharma for personal gain, such as in getting followers to feed on the leader's ego or eccentricity, cultist will always exist. Cults will also thrive as long as there are followers who willingly or have been unwittingly misled.
    • A cult is defined by the Free Dictionary as, (
      • 1) A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader, 
        • Check- "Dragon Springs, also known as The Mountain, is a 427-acre (1.73 km2) compound in Deerpark, New York, US that serves as the headquarters of the global Falun Gong religious movement and the Shen Yun performance arts troupe.  Falun Gong founder and leader Li Hongzhi lives near the compound, as do hundreds of Falun Gong adherents. " [Wikipedia]
      • (2)  A usually  nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease and
        • Check- "Li's success also had a large part to do with people seeking alternative medicine treatments at a time when China's health care system was struggling desperately to meet demand.  As the Master of the Falun Gong cultivation system, Li claimed to "purify the students' bodies" and "unblock their main and collateral channels" and in doing so "remove the root of their disease", if they were ill. He also reputedly planted a Falun or "law wheel" in the abdomen of each student, and other "energy mechanisms" in other parts of their bodies. Li also described how his "Law bodies" will protect each practitioner and how he "clear[s] up the students' house and places of practice and then put[s] a covering of safety'" [Wikipedia]
      • 3) Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
        • Check- ."In 1998 Li Hongzhi stated that he believes alien invaders walk the Earth and that modern science and race-mixing are part of their ploy to overtake humanity, and he has reportedly said that he can walk through walls and make himself invisible. Li says that he is a being from a higher level who has come to help humankind from the destruction it could face as the result of rampant evil. Regarding these concepts, he said, "You must not talk with ordinary people about the high-level things I have taught you. Instead, only talk about being persecuted... about our human rights being violated."  Lewis says that Li's "emphatic" claims to his followers that he holds "exalted status", and his instructions to his followers to deflect outsiders from this fact, are contradictory to his teachings about "Truthfulness", a cornerstone of Falun Gong belief" [Wikipedia]
The fact you listen to CCP propaganda is astounding.
  • I don't trust any source subject to any totalitarian govt- China, Russia, Falun Gong, etc.
The funny thing about this is that there are no actual witness statements about this. It is kind of just FBI bullshit based on "anonymous sources."

Also, The Epoch Times has an office based in New York City and they employ plenty of non-religious adherents. So they regularly break their "rules" all the time, apparently.

  • "For a brief period in 2016, a half-dozen nonpractitioners—a category also referred to as “sentient beings”—were hired as reporters. But for the most part, the newspaper appears to bring in Falun Gong practitioners to do the work. (The Epoch Times disputed this, without elaborating.) “A lot of these guys are kind of hippies,” my source said. “They just picked up a pamphlet like anyone else.” Once inside either The Epoch Times or NTD, they have tended to shuffle from one to the other and from job to job. Ben Chasteen, a co-host of Edge of Wonder, had studied massage therapy at the American Institute of Alternative Medicine. Before hosting his own show, he was a staff photographer. Jan Jekielek hosts the marquee interview program American Thought Leaders, but I have also seen him identified as the newspaper’s PR contact." -The Atlantic Monthly
  • "One email circular in particular made my blood boil. It dictated to all global Epoch Times staff how they should describe The Epoch Times, be it to the general public or their friends or family. We were not to reveal we were volunteers, as this would project an unprofessional image of the paper. And we were not to draw any association between The Epoch Times and Falun Gong. Rather, we should describe ourselves as staff, and there were suggestions about how we should answer the question about whether or not we were paid, while still adhering to Falun Gong’s teaching of “Truth”.   We were all being paid in “virtue” — a white substance in another dimension that you gain when you do good things and that leads to blessings in this life and the next. We would all later be paid with glorious futures. We all believed that, deeply." -Medium
Media Bias Fact Check is run by a hard-left sciencism believer who thinks consensus equals science and that the supernatural doesn't even exist. The owner is not only an atheist but is more of an anti-supernatural person than Richard Dawkins, and that is saying something.
  • "sciencism believers " are called "scientists" and they generally don't believe in anything that doesn't have an objectively demonstrable, repeatable basis.  Since religion tends to cloud reporters' objectivity, I prefer journalists who are atheists and anti-supernaturalists.  Everybody's supernatural world is different, subjective, and remarkably self-serving.  Atheist observations tend to be more objective, consistent and so less likely to be self-serving.
The Epoch Media Group was actually dropped by The Epoch Times years before this happened.
You're talking about Epoch Vietnam, which, despite the similar name, is not currently affiliated with The Epoch Times and has not been for about 10 years.

oromagi
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The Epoch Times dropped years before for doing precisely what you said they were.
  • "Behind the scenes, The Epoch Times was also developing a secret weapon: a Facebook growth strategy that would ultimately help take its message to millions.  According to emails reviewed by The Times, the Facebook plan was developed by Trung Vu, the former head of The Epoch Times’s Vietnamese edition, known as Dai Ky Nguyen, or DKN.  In Vietnam, Mr. Trung’s strategy involved filling a network of Facebook pages with viral videos and pro-Trump propaganda, some of it lifted word for word from other sites, and using automated software, or bots, to generate fake likes and shares, a former DKN employee said. Employees used fake accounts to run the pages, a practice that violated Facebook’s rules but that Mr. Trung said was necessary to protect employees from Chinese surveillance, the former employee said.  Mr. Trung did not respond to requests for comment.  According to the 2017 email sent to Epoch Times workers in America, the Vietnamese experiment was a “remarkable success” that made DKN one of the largest publishers in Vietnam.
    • The outlet, the email claimed, was “having a profound impact on saving sentient beings in that country.”  The Vietnamese team was asked to help Epoch Media Group — the umbrella organization for Falun Gong’s biggest U.S. media properties — set up its own Facebook empire, according to that email. That year, dozens of new Facebook pages appeared, all linked to The Epoch Times and its affiliates. Some were explicitly partisan, others positioned themselves as sources of real and unbiased news, and a few, like a humor page called “Funniest Family Moments,” were disconnected from news entirely.
    • Perhaps the most audacious experiment was a new right-wing politics site called America Daily.  Today, the site, which has more than a million Facebook followers, peddles far-right misinformation. It has posted anti-vaccine screeds, an article falsely claiming that Bill Gates and other elites are “directing” the Covid-19 pandemic and allegations about a “Jewish mob” that controls the world.  Emails obtained by The Times show that John Nania, a longtime Epoch Times editor, was involved in starting America Daily, along with executives from Sound of Hope, a Falun Gong-affiliated radio network. Records on Facebook show that the page is operated by the Sound of Hope Network, and a pinned post on its Facebook page contains a promotional video for Falun Gong.  In a statement, The Epoch Times said it had “no business relationship” with America Daily.
      Many of the Facebook pages operated by The Epoch Times and its affiliates followed a similar trajectory. They began by posting viral videos and uplifting news articles aggregated from other sites. They grew quickly, sometimes adding hundreds of thousands of followers a week. Then, they were used to steer people to buy Epoch Times subscriptions and promote more partisan content.
      Several of the pages gained significant followings “seemingly overnight,” said Renee DiResta, a disinformation researcher with the Stanford Internet Observatory. Many posts were shared thousands of times but received almost no comments — a ratio, Ms. DiResta said, that is typical of pages that have been boosted by “click farms,” firms that generate fake traffic by paying people to click on certain links over and over again.
      The Epoch Times denies using click farms or other illicit tactics to expand its pages. “The Epoch Times’s social media strategies were different from DKN, and used Facebook’s own promotional tools to gain an increased organic following,” the outlet said, adding that The Epoch Times cut ties with Mr. Trung in 2018.
      But last year, The Epoch Times was barred from advertising on Facebook — where it had spent more than $1.5 million over seven months — after the social network announced that the outlet’s pages had evaded its transparency requirements by disguising its ad purchases.
      This year, Facebook took down more than 500 pages and accounts linked to Truth Media, a network of anti-China pages that had been using fake accounts to amplify their messages. The Epoch Times denied any involvement, but Facebook’s investigators said Truth Media “showed some links to on-platform activity by Epoch Media Group and NTD.”
      “We’ve taken enforcement actions against Epoch Media and related groups several times,” said a Facebook spokeswoman, who added that the social network would punish the outlet if it violated more rules in the future.
      Since being barred from advertising on Facebook, The Epoch Times has moved much of its operation to YouTube, where it has spent more than $1.8 million on ads since May 2018, according to Google’s public database of political advertising.  -New York TImes
    • According to the New York Times, Epoch Media Group is still going strong in the US and is still making fake accounts on Facebook.  Epoch Media group was the second largest spender on Donald Trump's 2020 Presidential campaign after Trump himself.
    • What is your source for these claims?
    It is an interview with a doctor. Is it wrong for news outlets to conduct interviews?
    First of all, there is no "Qanon conspiracy." Qanon is a political cult that follows sporadic droppings by a person named "Q." Additionally, the REAL Qanon conspiracy is that there is going to be a One World Government and that the current elites are satanist pedophiles.

    • Pretty much my argument in a nutshell
    • The paper’s “Spygate Special Coverage” section, which frequently sits atop its website, theorizes about a grand, years long plot in which former Obama and Clinton staffers, a handful of magazines and newspapers, private investigators and government bureaucrats plan to take down the Trump presidency.  In his published response, publisher Gregory said the media outlet’s ads “have no political agenda.”
    • While The Epoch Times usually straddles the line between an ultraconservative news outlet and a conspiracy warehouse, some popular online shows created by Epoch Times employees and produced by NTD cross the line completely, and spread far and wide.  One such show is "Edge of Wonder," a verified YouTube channel that releases new NTD-produced videos twice every week and now has more than 33 million views. In addition to claims that alien abductions are real and the drug epidemic was engineered by the “deep state,” the channel pushes the QAnon conspiracy theory, which falsely posits that the same “Spygate” cabal is a front for a global pedophile ring being taken down by Trump.  One QAnon video, titled “#QANON - 7 facts the MEDIA (MSM) Won’t Admit” has almost 1 million views on YouTube. Other videos in the channel’s QAnon playlist, which include videos about 9/11 conspiracy theories and one titled “13 BLOODLINES & their Diabolical End Game,” gained hundreds of thousands of views each.
    • Travis View, a researcher and podcaster who studies the QAnon movement, said The Epoch Times has sanitized the conspiracy theory by pushing Spygate, which drops the wildest and more prurient details of QAnon while retaining its conspiratorial elements.  “QAnon is highly stigmatized among people trying to push the Spygate message. They know how toxic QAnon is,” View said. “Spygate leaves out the spiritual elements, the child sex trafficking, but it’s certainly integral to the QAnon narrative.” 
    They do not endorse or support Qanon in any capacity.
    • Gregory denied any connection with "Edge of Wonder," writing in a statement that his organization was “aware of the entertainment show,” but “is in no way connected with it.”  But The Epoch Times has itself published several credulous reports on QAnon and for years, the webseries hosts Rob Counts and Benjamin Chasteen were employed as the company’s creative director and chief photo editor, respectively. In August 2018, six months after the creation of "Edge of Wonder," Counts tweeted that he still worked for Epoch Times. Counts and Chasteen did not respond to an email seeking clarification on their roles.  Meanwhile The Epoch Times has promoted "Edge of Wonder" content in dozens of Facebook posts, still visible on its official Facebook page. That page is currently topped with a pinned ad for its Trump coverage that reads, “Where can you get real news that doesn't push any hidden agendas?” -NBC News
    Obviously I don't believe it is true any more than any other religion except for Christianity. But that doesn't mean there are no elements of truth in it.
    • There are many cults within Christianity, too.  Jim Jones, David Koresh, Warren Jeff, etc.  I would not trust any of these sources, either.



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@oromagi
A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false
in stark contrast to all those "100% true religions"
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Check- "Dragon Springs, also known as The Mountain
And Shaolin Monks go off and live in the mountains in facilities cut off from the world and the Amish live in their own communities separated from the world. Neither one of those is a cult. So why does having your own zone mean you are in a cult? 

Check- "Li's success also had a large part to do with people seeking alternative medicine treatments at a time when China's health care system was struggling desperately to meet demand. 
So treating people who are sick makes a person a cult leader? Additionally, Shaolin Buddhism also includes healing rituals and channeling of demons and working with energy forces. Are they a cult? And the Hindu religion also believes in healing through energies. The Native Americans also practice healing energy and many New Age religions believe in healing crystals which channel healing energy. All of those are not qualifiers of cults. So Falun Dafa is no different.

Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
The catholics worship the Pope in this manner. The Buddhists worship Buddha in this manner. Both of them are not considered cults. 

In 1998 Li Hongzhi stated that he believes alien invaders walk the Earth and that modern science and race-mixing are part of their ploy to overtake humanity, and he has reportedly said that he can walk through walls and make himself invisible. Li says that he is a being from a higher level who has come to help humankind from the destruction it could face as the result of rampant evil. 
Buzz Aldrin said he saw aliens on the moon. And the former head of national security for Canada said there are 80 alien species living on the earth.

Also, Li's writings do not state any of these things he reportedly said. And Falun Dafa people, so far as I can tell, do not believe them. 

But what I REALLY LOVE about what you did was you constructed a case using hearsay and third party sources to invent your own opinion about a person.

You completely ignored the words I cited, from the person's own religious writings for the movement, mind you, and instead relied on telephone-style reports to invent your own opinion. 

I gave you a link to the foundational texts of the religion, and you just ignore those and invent claims based on things you've read on the internet.

Look, I don't agree with Falun Dafa at all. But they arent crazies who are going around lying to people. The Epoch Times is a very honest paper. Biased, yes. But honest.
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Okay, so I've finally found  a way to actually read the specifics without giving my contact info to a creepy cult.

After parsing through epochtimes' highly disorganized and heavily censored (without explanation) email chain, what we seem to have is a complaint from a lady named Kelley Khrohnert complaining that preliminary mortality data from  National Center for Health Statistics (which includes any mention of COVID as a contributing factor)  and not preliminary data from CDC WONDER (which only includes statements of COVID as the underlying cause of death).  There's nothing in the email chain that suggests that the data is being presented internally as anything more than rough data.

Sara Oliver appears to make a response to Ms. Khronert's complaint  but that response is edited out from the epochtimes' document.

From:Oliver, Sara Elizabeth (CDC/DDID/NCIRD/DVD)
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2022 3:16:04 PM
To: Freedman, Megan (COC/DDID/NCIRD/OD); Twentyman, Evelyn Rebecca Ford (CDC/DDID/NCIRD/OVD) Cc:Grusich,Katherina (Kate) (COC/DDID/NCIRD/OD)

Meg: - this is the response I sent to Kristen N about the same question. This woman appears  [REDACTED]  but these are my thoughts  Just in case we continue to get questions. I'm  sure you guys can make it sound prettier, but something like this would be how I would respond. And the general sentiment that “even 1 death from COVID that's preventable is too many, regardless of how you count them"

[ENTIRE CONTENTS REDACTED]

From:Oliver, Sara Elizabeth (CDC/DDID/NCIRD/DVD)
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2022 5:05 PM
To: Fleming-Dutra, Katherine E. (COC/DDID/NCIRD/DBD) ; Nordlund, Kristen (€DC/0D/OADC)

Kristen: 
[ENTIRE CONTENTS REDACTED]
Hope that helps? Happy to discuss further if needed- sara

We can tell from the email chain that the Washington Post made inquiries in response to Ms. Krohnert's complaint but were apparently satisfied with Ms. Oliver's reply.

Questions I have regarding the validity of this reporting:

  • How did the epochtimes acquire these emails and why are they presented as they are, jumbled in with a lot of other irrelevant emails?
  • Who did the redacting and why are the essential responses redacted?
  • Did Ms. Krohnert receive Ms. Oliver's response  and what was her reaction?
  • Were Ms. Oliver and Ms. Fleming-Dutra contacted for this article?  What was their response?
  • SInce the epochtimes appear to have been made aware of this in mid-June, why wait to mid-October to run it as a story?
  • Ultimately, this story boils down to a non-scientific general criticism of scientists' use of data.  Although we don't get the details of the scientists' responses, we do get the impression that they were unimpressed by the non-scientists concern.
  • Since other papers looked into this and decided it was a non-story in June, what aspect of this makes it a story now?  Was it just a slow news day? 
  • Since the data was shared internally and never seems to have been treated as hard fact, what are the grounds for calling this disinformation?



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Look, I don't agree with Falun Dafa at all. But they arent crazies who are going around lying to people. The Epoch Times is a very honest paper. Biased, yes. But honest.
You told some very specific lies about Epoch Times without offering evidence:

  • they employ plenty of non-religious adherents.
  • The Epoch Media Group was actually dropped by The Epoch Times years before this happened
  • You're talking about Epoch Vietnam, which, despite the similar name, is not currently affiliated with The Epoch Times and has not been for about 10 years
  • They do not endorse or support Qanon in any capacity.
I have employed very specific evidence (Atlantic Monthly, NY TImes, LinkedIn, Epoch Times) to establish the falsehood of all of these claims.   I asked specifically for your sources and you simply dodged.  Did you just invent all this bullshit or did these claims come from some source?  Was Master Li in control of your information source?




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Also, Li's writings do not state any of these things he reportedly said.
  • I don't know about Li's writings but here is a portion of 1999 Time magazine interview that establishes that products controlled by Master Li ought not to be treated as reliable sources for information.
TIME: What happens after one attains the Tao?
Li: We have all heard about the Chinese deities. When one completes cultivation, one has special powers.

TIME: Can qigong prevent death?
Li: In the West, one can reach paradise through cultivation practice after death. In the East, one can achieve a divine status through cultivation practice while one is still alive.

TIME: You talk about the period of the end of Dharma.
Li: While Buddha Sakyamuni [563-483 B.C.] was teaching his Dharma, there was no written language so the Dharma was passed by word of mouth. After 500 years, human discourse changed Buddha Sakyamuni's original words and it came to an end. The ending of the Dharma means that the cultivation method began to become chaotic and could no longer enable people to practice cultivation.

TIME: Why does chaos reign now?
Li: Of course there is not just one reason. The biggest cause of society's change today is that people no longer believe in orthodox religion. They go to church, but they no longer believe in God. They feel free to do anything. The second reason is that since the beginning of this century, aliens have begun to invade the human mind and its ideology and culture.

TIME: Where do they come from?
Li: The aliens come from other planets. The names that I use for these planets are different . Some are from dimensions that human beings have not yet discovered. The key is how they have corrupted mankind. Everyone knows that from the beginning until now, there has never been a development of culture like today. Although it has been several thousand years, it has never been like now.

The aliens have introduced modern machinery like computers and airplanes. They started by teaching mankind about modern science, so people believe more and more science, and spiritually, they are controlled. Everyone thinks that scientists invent on their own when in fact their inspiration is manipulated by the aliens. In terms of culture and spirit, they already control man. Mankind cannot live without science.

The ultimate purpose is to replace humans. If cloning human beings succeeds, the aliens can officially replace humans. Why does a corpse lie dead, even though it is the same as a living body? The difference is the soul, which is the life of the body. If people reproduce a human person, the gods in heaven will not give its body a human soul. The aliens will take that opportunity to replace the human soul and by doing so they will enter earth and become earthlings.

When such people grow up, they will help replace humans with aliens. They will produce more and more clones. There will no longer be humans reproduced by humans. They will act like humans, but they will introduce legislation to stop human reproduction.

TIME: Are you a human being?
Li: You can think of me as a human being.

TIME: Are you from earth?
Li: I don't wish to talk about myself at a higher level. People wouldn't understand it.

TIME: What are the aliens after?
Li: The aliens use many methods to keep people from freeing themselves from manipulation. They make earthlings have wars and conflicts, and develop weapons using science, which makes mankind more dependent on advanced science and technology. In this way, the aliens will be able to introduce their stuff and make the preparations for replacing human beings. The military industry leads other industries such as computers and electronics.

TIME: But what is the alien purpose?
Li: The human body is the most perfect in the universe. It is the most perfect form. The aliens want the human body.

TIME: What do aliens look like?
Li: Some look similar to human beings. U.S. technology has already detected some aliens. The difference between aliens can be quite enormous.

TIME: Can you describe it?
Li: You don't want to have that kind of thought in your mind.

TIME: Describe them anyway.
Li: One type looks like a human, but has a nose that is made of bone. Others look like ghosts. At first they thought that I was trying to help them. Now they now that I am sweeping them away.,

TIME: How do you see the future?
Li: Future human society is quite terrifying. If aliens are not to replace human beings, society will destroy itself on its own. Industry is creating invisible air pollution. The microparticles in the air harm human beings. The abnormality in the climate today is caused by that [pollution], and it cannot be remedied by humans alone. The drinking water is polluted. No matter how we try to purify it, it cannot return to its original purity. Modern science cannot determine the extent of the damage. The food we eat is the product of fertilized soil. The meat we eat is affected. I can foresee a future when human limbs become deformed, the body's joints won't move and internal organs will become dysfunctional. Modern science hasn't realized this yet.

At the beginning you asked why I did such things. I only tell practitioners, but not the public because they cannot comprehend it. I am trying to save those people who can return to a high level and to a high moral level. Modern science does not understand this, so governments can do nothing. The only person in the entire world who knows this is myself alone.

I am not against the public knowing, but I am teaching practitioners. Even though the public knows, it cannot do anything about it. People can't free themselves from science and from their concepts. I am not against science. I am only telling mankind the truth. I drive a car. I also live in the environment. Don't believe that I am against science. But I know that modern science is destroying mankind. Aliens have already constructed a layer of cells in human beings. The development of computers dictates this layer of body cells to control human culture and spirituality and in the end to replace human beings.

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@oromagi
I don't know about Li's writings but here is a portion of 1999 Time magazine interview that establishes that products controlled by Master Li ought not to be treated as reliable sources for information.
And this is your problem. You just decide to shut off your ears to everything that disagrees with you, even if what you believe is bonkers.

But I will say that Time Magazine interview was very interesting reading. But it doesn't count as official doctrine for Falun Dafa. The adherents go based off of the text that he left, which I linked to and wrote from extensively.

Li wouldn't be the first one to believe in aliens, and he certainly won't be the last. But regardless of his beliefs on this, it doesn't determine the whole religion. The fact of the matter is that Falun Dafa is just another type of Buddhism that teaches to let go of worldly attachments and seek enlightenment. 

I don't agree with it, but that is what it is. Personally the reason Falun Dafa isn't a cult is because it is similar to how Buddhism started, with the teachings of an individual. Li doesn't tell people to worship him and more than Buddha did. So it isn't a cult.