WHAT IDIOT THOUGHT THEY COULD BAN KANYE WEST ?

Author: 3RU7AL
Ethics
intp
Information War
Anarchy
GNOSTIC

Posts

Total: 34
Topic's author
#1
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9

this is the best commentary on the current state of censorship that i've seen yet

paypal

aws

trump

alex jones

andrew tate

and now kanye west (ye)

we need a neutral network

just like a telephone network

can you imagine if the phone company started cutting off service to anyone who said words they don't like ?
#2
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,338
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
I 'do like the idea of neutral services, where people cannot be banned.
(Even trolls and crazy people)

But, isn't incitement also a concern?
False or harmful claims?

There's also the fact of private business not wanting to do business with certain people.
Topic's author
#3
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Lemming
There's also the fact of private business not wanting to do business with certain people.
that's why each account can create personalized blacklists or whitelists
Topic's author
#4
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Lemming
False or harmful claims?
you mean like claims that the jesus will get you into heaven ?
Topic's author
#5
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Lemming
But, isn't incitement also a concern?
is "incitement" a good reason to have your phone service cut ?
#6
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,338
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
True, people disagree on what the truth is at times.

Some people have awfully big microphones though (Power and influence I mean)
I'm doubtful that such people should 'not be held accountable for their actions/results.

Take Alex Jones, convinced or goaded people into thinking the school shooting was a false flag, inflammatory,
Led to the parents of dead kids being allegedly harassed, and a dead kid's grave literally pissed on, allegedly.

Might be we should just hold those who 'acted accountable,
But we hold leaders accountable, people whose words 'cause, like Charles Manson.
Topic's author
#7
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Lemming
Take Alex Jones, convinced or goaded people into thinking the school shooting was a false flag, inflammatory,
Led to the parents of dead kids being allegedly harassed, and a dead kid's grave literally pissed on, allegedly.
if individuals have violated laws

then let the legal system handle it

i see paid ads on youtube all the time

that are obvious scams (like fuel-efficiency enhancers and micro air-conditioners and "indestructible" drones)
#8
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,338
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
I don't see a reason for their phone line to be cut, no.
Though on another hand, as Athias, I 'think has made points about,

There's arguments for private businesses being able to choose who they associate with.

. . .

Also true that media is 'full of lies, attack ads, products,
Well, points of view one might call them,
But surely there comes a point 'eventually where a falsehood or incitement is clear cut?
Topic's author
#9
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Lemming
But surely there comes a point 'eventually where a falsehood or incitement is clear cut?
nope,

if i post images of animals being tortured in factory farms with corporate logos in the background (like tyson foods)

and then somebody sabotages or boycotts tyson foods

they are not going to be happy with me

and might argue that i "incited violence" or "financial harm" on their business

or if i speak out about a particular belief system or ideology

and some people decide to take some criminal action in response

again, i could easily be "considered responsible"
Topic's author
#10
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Lemming
have you ever seen the movie "the fisher king" ?
#11
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,338
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
I have not seen The Fisher King,
Ooh, Robin WIlliams,

"Jack Lucas, a narcissistic, misanthropic shock jock, becomes suicidal and despondent when his insensitive on-air comments inadvertently prompt a mentally unstable caller to commit a mass murder–suicide at a Manhattan restaurant. Three years later, Jack is working for his girlfriend Anne in a video store, and is in a mostly drunken, depressed state."

I see it brings up something I was considering while we were talking,
Intent.

. . .

Intent doesn't always 'matter though?
A person who drinks doesn't 'intend to kill,

Group of schoolkids might not 'intend kid to suicide,

. . .

Might be you have a different point though?
Topic's author
#12
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Lemming
Might be you have a different point though?
alex jones isn't responsible for the actions of their listeners
#13
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,338
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
If I were to spread a false and dirty rumor about someone,
It seems to me I'd have some responsibility in people 'acting on said rumor?
Topic's author
#14
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Lemming
If I were to spread a false and dirty rumor about someone,
It seems to me I'd have some responsibility in people 'acting on said rumor?
how exactly ?

the best example of this is the Nuremburg trials after ww2

where soldiers were held personally responsible for "following orders"

they tried to defend themselves by saying "i had no choice but to follow the commands of my superiors"

but that "excuse" was not accepted by the court

how much less if the perceived "orders" are from some random person over the internet who doesn't even know your name

funny enough,

the u-boat captains were voluntarily defended by members of the united states navy who testified that the "crimes" the germans were being accused of were also committed by members of the united states navy and basically dared the court to put members of the united states navy on trial for "war-crimes"

this type of legal symmetry

would hold members of the "establishment media" as well as government officials responsible for harm spread by their "dangerous lies"

like, the now proven-false claims of iraq's "weapons of mass destruction" and iraq's "involvement in 911" both resulted in massive loss of life for americans and their allies as well as COUNTLESS iraqi civilians and military recruits who were justly and quite obviously simply trying to defend their homes from an illegal invasion

#15
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,338
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
Basic cause and effect,
I shout fire in a theater, people are effected,
One might say, the 'people stampeded over one another, trampled that man to death by 'their actions not mine,
They could have exercised restraint, looked about to verify, proceeded in an orderly manner,
Persuasion has a science to it, expected results,
Cause and expected effect.

The one's ordering the soldiers were also executed,
Though I am unsure on ratios, percentages, statistics.

. . .

'Is unfortunate, that Allies did not hold selves to equal standards, would have strengthened position.

Government officials 'are responsible, factually speaking,
In terms of 'law, I do have a bit of trouble deciding, ambiguous.

. . .
"We weren’t involved in the process." - ILikePie5 #51
"You weren't. I was. I will admit publicly that I was the person who sounded the alarm bells to the mod team, which is the biggest reason for my apology to Shila." - Mharman #52

Is this not responsibility,
To state one's cause and effect?

. . .

Iraq situation was complicated, but I'd say the politicians bear responsibility in it,
Maybe didn't get held accountable by 'law,
But responsibility, at least two meanings.

. . .

'Should Julius Streicher - Wikipedia have been executed?
I am unsure,

Responsibility, rights, hazy subject for me, still thinking on.
Topic's author
#16
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Lemming
words are not a crime

if i write a book

about a serial-killer

and someone copies the crimes in-real-life

am i responsible ?

it has been shown that television shows that feature characters committing suicide

can be correlated with actual suicides after such an episode airs

should we make talking about suicide illegal ?
#17
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,338
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
I prefer living in a free society myself,

It sounds that we agree that people have a measure of responsibility in causality?

Though I 'am unsure about lawfully, depends on the country.

Some words, books, 'have been illegal, 'are illegal, depending what country one is in.

But even in America, can't say f*** on a kids show, I imagine, censors prevent it,
. . .
Hm, so I suppose making suicide illegal to depict wouldn't be too hard in societies, though you and I might prefer to live in a more free society.

. . .

 “Look not at what is contrary to propriety; listen not to what is contrary to propriety; speak not what is contrary to propriety; make no movement which is contrary to propriety”

A person is what they eat, what they immerse themself in,
There 'is logic, in a society that implements censorship, though one might argue eventually it can censor 'too much, that it loses it's origin.
Topic's author
#18
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Lemming
showing crime on television promotes criminal behavior

i don't care what standard of "harm" you want to use

my only request is for UNIFORM ENFORCEMENT
#19
Public-Choice
Public-Choice's avatar
Debates: 19
Posts: 1,065
3
4
8
Public-Choice's avatar
Public-Choice
3
4
8
-->
@3RU7AL
There's Gab. The only accounts they've banned so far are NATO bots.

Gab has their own videos, payment processor, and their own Chrome browser with a comment section for uncensored comments on every website. They also have user-voted news with comments, kinda like Reddit but only for news articles.

It's a pretty decent alternative, though there are some racists and neo-nazis on there. They are not, by any means, anywhere close to the majority. The vast majority of people on Gab are conservatives.

Though if the racists start to become more common, I will probably abandon the platform. I used to try debating those guys and it is like hanging my hand with a hammer. You can prove them wrong with everything and they will just say it is part of the "conspiracy."

Like, yeah, bro. Because scientists have so much to gain from saying all people are equal. Lmao.
#20
SkepticalOne
SkepticalOne's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 1,720
3
3
7
SkepticalOne's avatar
SkepticalOne
3
3
7
-->
@3RU7AL
You literally pay for service from the phone company and have a reasonable expectations to get service. That's not the case with social media. 
Topic's author
#21
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@SkepticalOne
parler paid aws for hosting and still got cut
#22
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,338
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
People have contrary desires,
Desires for freedom,
Desires for safety,

Ones doesn't always seem to beat the other,
The mixed paints become grays,
Subjective ideas of right and wrong, acceptable or not.

Uniform enforcement 'does, seem something people often want though.
Topic's author
#23
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Lemming
PLEASE PROTECT US

PLEASE PROTECT US FROM MEDICAL MISINFORMATION

PLEASE PROTECT US FROM FINANCIAL MISINFORMATION

PLEASE PROTECT US FROM RELIGIOUS MISINFORMATION

PLEASE PROTECT US FROM SCIENTIFIC MISINFORMATION

PLEASE PROTECT US
Topic's author
#24
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Public-Choice
There's Gab.
and gettr and odysee and blurt and steem and rumble and substack and flote and dtube and parler and 3speak and subscribestar and ipfs and presearch

when people say "there is no alternative" (to google and facebook and twitter and youtube)

they simply aren't looking
#25
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,338
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
I am missing your meaning, in post #23,

Is it positive to limited censorship, prevention of lies, harm, disinformation?

Or negative, as in mocking people for being 'too reliant on caretakers, rather than being proactive individuals?
Topic's author
#26
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Lemming
are religious teachings "dangerous lies" ?
#27
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,338
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
People disagree on that question.

'But there 'are child rearing methods, that people theist or atheist, would agree that the information given by the parent is child abuse,
'Probably I say, as I don't actually have a sources.

Some societies 'have limited what is taught in their lands, both in history and now, I'm pretty sure, including beliefs in what existence is and what people ought do.

. . .

Our society places a 'bit more emphasis on parents, individuality, than on state mandate, 'currently, I 'think.

. . .

Still, Kanye hasn't been 'banned by government, of appearing on the media,
The 'individual media has 'chosen to shun him, for reasons of they think his ideas wrong, false, and dangerous to society, 
Or dangerous for their profits, either one.

The media isn't like the Christian Cake shop being forced to make a wedding cake for gays,
Though I 'think I don't agree with that case either.
#28
SkepticalOne
SkepticalOne's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 1,720
3
3
7
SkepticalOne's avatar
SkepticalOne
3
3
7
-->
@3RU7AL
What is aws, and what was the context?
#29
SkepticalOne
SkepticalOne's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 1,720
3
3
7
SkepticalOne's avatar
SkepticalOne
3
3
7
-->
@3RU7AL
Parler was dropped for inciting violence and violating community standards. This is a huge no-brainer. Amazon should win. 

Topic's author
#30
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@SkepticalOne
Parler was dropped for inciting violence and violating community standards. This is a huge no-brainer. Amazon should win. 
does amazon refuse to host anyone promoting war ?