Core Republican Rhilosophy: Own the Libs

Author: Double_R

Posts

Total: 36
Topic's author
#1
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,283
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
Myself and many others on this site have been saying for quite some time that the Republican Party is at its core not about policy but about sticking it to the other side. Ron Desantis’s recent stunt shipping migrants to Martha’s Vineyard is a perfect illustration of this.

So if republicans were about policy, what would this have looked like? Well, the debate here is over the southern border and whether we as a country are doing enough to stop the flow of illegals/migrants into our country.

It is common sense that if you want to get people to agree with your position you have to start by getting them to agree that the problem you are proposing solutions for is itself a legitimate issue.

So what the governors could have very easily done was reach out to blue states across the country and tell them they are overflowing with migrants and need help  relocating them. This would have created a win win; if blue states say yes and take the migrants, they red state governors get to declare victory to their voters by showing how they were able to shift the excess migrants elsewhere. If blue states said no, they get to use that to win the national debate by showing that even blue states are saying we cannot handle this influx and thus making the irrefutable case that we need to tighten up the border.

But they’re not about policy, so what did they do instead?

Lured a bunch of migrants into a plane and then dumped them in another state telling no one… Except Fox News.

Anyone with a grade school level of psychology knows what happens next… when you piss off your opposition all you’re going to do is give them more reason to oppose you.

But when all you care about is owning the other side, this strategy makes more sense.

They’re not about policy.
#2
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,105
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@Double_R
Myself and many others on this site have been saying for quite some time that the Republican Party is at its core not about policy but about sticking it to the other side. Ron Desantis’s recent stunt shipping migrants to Martha’s Vineyard is a perfect illustration of this.

So if republicans were about policy, what would this have looked like? Well, the debate here is over the southern border and whether we as a country are doing enough to stop the flow of illegals/migrants into our country.

It is common sense that if you want to get people to agree with your position you have to start by getting them to agree that the problem you are proposing solutions for is itself a legitimate issue.

So what the governors could have very easily done was reach out to blue states across the country and tell them they are overflowing with migrants and need help  relocating them. This would have created a win win; if blue states say yes and take the migrants, they red state governors get to declare victory to their voters by showing how they were able to shift the excess migrants elsewhere. If blue states said no, they get to use that to win the national debate by showing that even blue states are saying we cannot handle this influx and thus making the irrefutable case that we need to tighten up the border.

But they’re not about policy, so what did they do instead?

Lured a bunch of migrants into a plane and then dumped them in another state telling no one… Except Fox News.

Anyone with a grade school level of psychology knows what happens next… when you piss off your opposition all you’re going to do is give them more reason to oppose you.

But when all you care about is owning the other side, this strategy makes more sense.

They’re not about policy.
Actually DeSantis is doing exactly what Trump did in 2016 to win the election. Trump attacked immigrants calling them rapist, Drug dealers etc. and called for them to be banned from entering America.
DeSantis wants immigrants banned from entering Florida. 

#3
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,051
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
So if republicans were about policy, what would this have looked like?
A wall.
#4
TheMorningsStar
TheMorningsStar's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 398
2
3
7
TheMorningsStar's avatar
TheMorningsStar
2
3
7
-->
@Greyparrot
Exactly. Increase border security, deport illegal immigrants. That is the policy. The policy isn't "Let them come, but you Northern states need to take them." Sure, DeSantis did send them to a Northern state, but not because that is the desired policy. It is because states do not have deportation rights, he needed to do something about the large number, and he needs to make a statement that will sway the country in order to influence the upcoming election for the purpose of increasing border security.
#5
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,064
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
-->
@Double_R
So if republicans were about policy, what would this have looked like? Well, the debate here is over the southern border and whether we as a country are doing enough to stop the flow of illegals/migrants into our country.
Republicans already won that debate. Biden is underwater on immigration by anywhere from 20 to 30 points depending on the poll (rightfully so.) Republicans lead on border security by double digits in every poll. The last president, a Republican, faced a similar crisis of bogus asylum claims being used as a mechanism to enter the country illegally and worked with the Mexican government to implement policies that stopped the flow of migrants, which Biden repealed on day one. This invasion has gone for 18 months now despite repeated pleas for help from border communities. The administration hasn’t lifted a finger to solve the crisis, the most they’ve said about the issue was when they slandered border agents with patently false accusations last year.

The invasion is occurring because fundamentally the people in charge of the Biden administration do not believe that the US has a right to a border/has the right to say no to people who want to come in, and they are willing to pay a political price to have an open border. What DeSantis did was send a provocative message that brought the issue back to the forefront before the election. When you’re trying to win voters “owning” the other side is important! It’s not fair to say Republicans don’t care about policy when they actually implemented policies that fixed the issue last time they had power for the duration of their reign. The point of what DeSantis did was remind voters of that 
#6
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,064
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
Republicans already won that debate. Biden is underwater on immigration by anywhere from 20 to 30 points depending on the poll (rightfully so.) Republicans lead on border security by double digits in every poll. 
TLDR version: when you’ve already won the debate on the merits, which republicans have, the way to win on the issue further is to raise its salience. That’s exactly what Desantis did. Far from an empty gesture it helped to shift policy by winning votes
#7
TheMorningsStar
TheMorningsStar's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 398
2
3
7
TheMorningsStar's avatar
TheMorningsStar
2
3
7
-->
@thett3
Far from an empty gesture it helped to shift policy by winning votes
Exactly. In fact, this action only makes me want DeSantis to run for president even more. He knows how to influence public sentiment and seems to have a good enough head on his shoulders. Sure, I don't agree with him completely, and so I hope his VP pick will be able to pick up the slack (John Kennedy would be amazing), but he is certainly no fool.
#8
coal
coal's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 1,950
3
3
9
coal's avatar
coal
3
3
9
-->
@Double_R
It is common sense that if you want to get people to agree with your position
We'll see who wins in November.

There is no point in trying to persuade someone who will never move from their position, and you fall into that category. 
#9
coal
coal's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 1,950
3
3
9
coal's avatar
coal
3
3
9
-->
@Greyparrot
A wall.
I lol'd so hard when I read that reply.  

Enforcing our immigration laws would be a good start. 

More of them should be flown to Martha's Vineyard. 
#10
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,675
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@Double_R
You're acting like politics is about policy and not about sticking it to the other side. Joe Biden destroying the insulin cap from Trump is one example from the Dems.
Topic's author
#11
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,283
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@thett3
Far from an empty gesture it helped to shift policy by winning votes
Exactly.

What Desantis did was the political equivalence of taking a shit on your neighbors lawn. The fact that you and every republican here saw that and thought “that’s why that guy should be president” is the entire point of this thread.
#12
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,051
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
At least give him props for not storming the Vineyard like Jan 6.
#13
thett3
thett3's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,064
3
2
7
thett3's avatar
thett3
3
2
7
-->
@Double_R
Exactly.

What Desantis did was the political equivalence of taking a shit on your neighbors lawn. The fact that you and every republican here saw that and thought “that’s why that guy should be president” is the entire point of this thread.
Nice to know that you think migrants are the equivalent of excrement lol. If this is the comparison we’re making, it’s only after your neighbor has shit on your lawn thousands of times and you doing so reminds the authorities that they have the power to do something about it 
Topic's author
#14
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,283
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@thett3
Nice to know that you think migrants are the equivalent of excrement lol. If this is the comparison we’re making…
It’s not a comparison we’re making. The whole point went over your head.

Taking a shit on your neighbors lawn is analogous because it’s an example of an action that is not intended to solve any problem, but is instead nothing more than an attempt to stick it to your neighbor.

There is absolutely nothing about this advancing the best interests of the people who elected him, unless the people who elected him did so because it was in their minds, in their best interest to have a governor who owns the libs. Hence the point of this thread.
#15
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,051
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
Taking a shit on your neighbors lawn is analogous because it’s an example of an action that is not intended to solve any problem, but is instead nothing more than an attempt to stick it to your neighbor.

Oh, but it might work if it keeps your neighbor from shitting on your lawn.
Topic's author
#16
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,283
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
It won’t for reasons I already explained. You could at least pretend you are reading and absorbing the arguments you are responding to.

Feel free to go troll somewhere else.
#17
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,051
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
You're the one that brought shit to a reasonable discussion about sending illegal migrants away.
#18
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,051
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@coal
More of them should be flown to Martha's Vineyard. 
There are 8 sanctuary cities in Mass they can be sent to, it's not necessary to upset the rich whities.
#19
cristo71
cristo71's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,563
3
2
3
cristo71's avatar
cristo71
3
2
3
-->
@Greyparrot
Ya gotta be careful even with those sanctuary cities. After Chicago Mayor Lightfoot chastised Texas Gov. Abbott for sending migrants to Chicago, she then sent several dozen to a suburb without warning:

“Suburban Mayor Says He Was Unaware Migrants Bused To Chicago Would Be Moved to His Community”



#20
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,051
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@cristo71
Chicago isn't a sanctuary city anymore?
#21
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@coal
More of them should be flown to Martha's Vineyard
I say we turn Martha’s Vineyard into a prison island for illegal immigrants.
#22
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,675
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
I actually agree with this. Conservatives cuck out just to "own the libs" way too much. The student debt debacle is a great example. Conservatives defend usurious bankers just to own those gender studies graduates.
#23
coal
coal's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 1,950
3
3
9
coal's avatar
coal
3
3
9
-->
@Dr.Franklin
Conservatives defend usurious bankers just to own those gender studies graduates.
That's a hilariously misinformed argument.

Have you not wondered why Biden isn't just erasing all as opposed to only a mere fraction of student debt? 

Or do you not know anything about investment banking and debt securities?

#24
coal
coal's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 1,950
3
3
9
coal's avatar
coal
3
3
9
-->
@bmdrocks21
I say we turn Martha’s Vineyard into a prison island for illegal immigrants.
I say the Biden Administration's midnight flights of illegals to swing states should be the subject of a criminal investigation.  

#25
coal
coal's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 1,950
3
3
9
coal's avatar
coal
3
3
9
-->
@Double_R
What Desantis did was the political equivalence of taking a shit on your neighbors lawn. The fact that you and every republican here saw that and thought “that’s why that guy should be president” is the entire point of this thread.
Are you actually this uninformed?  

Have you somehow failed to learn that DeSantis did twice what the Biden Administration has been doing since Biden took office?  The only difference is that when DeSantis put illegals on a plane, he sent them to Martha's Vineyard as opposed to Chicago.

Here's the bottom line: Every time you have an opinion on any issue, how you talk about the underlying issue betrays the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about.  Whether it's COVID, the 2nd Amendment, immigration, crime and basically the universe of issues on which you speak, without exception the beginning and end of your contribution to that discussion is what I could hear from Rachel Maddow on MSNBC, or worse . . . the Young Turks.

Have you ever asked yourself this question: "What if I don't have all the facts?"  Has it ever occurred to you, at any single point in your life, that your vitriolic outrage expressed against who you perceive to be your enemy is, in fact, the entire point of why those issues are portrayed as they are by the sources of information you believe are credible?  

I have read enough of your mindless idiocy over the years to safely conclude that the entirety of your worldview is based on the fiction you've been shown.  

And because the only world you've ever seen is the one you've observed on the cave wall while you're chained to the floor, you're not even capable of conceiving of the possibility of sunlight outside of it.  Frankly, I doubt you'll even be able to understand what I just said before you google it.  To save you the trouble, when you figure out I'm talking about Plato's Allegory of the Cave, give it a read.  Realize where you are and why you're there.  Then think about why it's in their interests that you remain as you are: chained to the floor, watching shadows you're not even capable of recognizing as such. 

You'll probably convince yourself that the shadows are, in fact, reality; and the world is as you understand it. 

But I would hope that you're not so incompetent you're incapable of having doubts.  Though everything I have seen from you suggests otherwise.  From how you talk about politics, to what you say when you're discussing them. 

Now go off and be a good useful idiot for the people who have you chained to the floor, staring at those dancing shadows and shrieking about them online.  
#26
coal
coal's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 1,950
3
3
9
coal's avatar
coal
3
3
9
In fact, I don't even think you're capable of recognizing that you're chained to the floor of the cave, much less that dancing shadows on its wall are made you create this thread.  


#27
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,051
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@coal
Or do you not know anything about investment banking and debt securities?
US department of Education holds the great majority of student loans. Not banks.

Biden's "debt forgiveness" was actually a mandatory loan imposed on EVERY American taxpayer to the tune of 2100 dollars that must be eventually repaid.
#28
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,051
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@coal
And because the only world you've ever seen is the one you've observed on the cave wall while you're chained to the floor, you're not even capable of conceiving of the possibility of sunlight outside of it.
What's really bad is that he and many others, when they do step outside, stare stupidly directly at the sun, and call it "fox news misinformation" before crawling back to safety.
Topic's author
#29
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,283
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@coal
Have you somehow failed to learn that DeSantis did twice what the Biden Administration has been doing since Biden took office?
Provide one example where the Biden administration lured migrants onto a plane with false promises so that he could unexpectedly dump them in a red state while notifying no one except a left wing news network in order to make a political point. I’ll wait.

The only difference is that when DeSantis put illegals on a plane…
These were migrants waiting their asylum trials. They are in the US legally. You might want to think before you accuse someone else of being misinformed.

Here's the bottom line: Every time you have an opinion on any issue, how you talk about the underlying issue betrays the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about.
Blah blah blah. Let me know when you have something to contribute to the conversation. Until then feel free to go troll somewhere else.

#30
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,051
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Double_R
These were migrants waiting their asylum trials. They are in the US legally. You might want to think before you accuse someone else of being misinformed.
Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 says otherwise.