Christmas Came Early (Ukraine)

Author: Swagnarok

Posts

Total: 13
Topic's author
#1
Swagnarok
Swagnarok's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 1,250
3
2
6
Swagnarok's avatar
Swagnarok
3
2
6
It has been announced that from September 23 to September 27, the occupied Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts will hold "referendums" on the question of whether to join Russia. Medvedev, in all of his bluster, said that once Russian territory, these would fall under Russia's nuclear umbrella and that Russia would use all means at its disposal to enforce its territorial integrity.

In other words...

One week from today, Russia's territorial integrity will start to come under question. Donetsk and Luhansk will be no legally different from Moscow (from the Russian government's POV, anyhow). And yet, it'll come under constant shelling from another country, which asserts control over a large percentage of it, and which will continue offensive operations to take more of it until the eventuality comes when Russia controls none of what it claims in the area.
No reasonable person thinks that Ukraine will be in the least bit deterred by Russia's plans, or that a single Ukrainian offensive will be stalled for even a microsecond by this non-consideration. Nor is it likely that this'll bring a halt to Western aid.

Once Russia invites this precedent on its homeland, it'll be no different from if any other part of Russia was suddenly attacked and invaded. And the consequence of said attack and invasion, broadcast for the entire world to see, will be "no consequence whatsoever".
This is the beginning of the end of Russia's status as a sovereign nation. And history will hold Putin 100% responsible.
#2
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,006
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
Russia is receiving military aid from N’ Korea. China did not want to get involved for fear of world sanctions. India rebuked the escalating war. Putin is losing friend very  quickly. Where is Trump when Putin needs him?
#3
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
or Russia could preserve its sovereignty by disposing of Putin and ending the war.  Seems like a small price to pay.
#4
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@oromagi
Good idea.

Hopefully a lot of Russians have the same idea.
#5
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,346
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@oromagi
I 'only mean this as counterpoint,
I'm not fond of aggressive war, rape, or murder,
So much 'seems to have been 'reported in Russia's offensive.

Even people we don't like can possess loyalty,
Though there's different ideas of loyalty I suppose,
Some might view loyalty to Russia as assassinating Putin,
Other's might view Russia and Putin as much the same, so long as he is leader.

"Not a step back."
Might still echo in some Russians minds,
Though it was a threat and force against Stalin's own people,
Some might think of it with pride.

Even if Russia 'does lose, or is in bad situation now,
Would such not prove Putin's 'concern about Russia's power on the world stage correct,
That Russia is not who they 'should be (From people obsessed with Russia power view),
That this struggle is necessary to become what they ought be.
#6
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,006
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
Russia seeking to recall 300,000 reservists back to serve in the military. It is  renewing nuclear threats.
Is Putin going all out to defend his reputation or country?

10 days later

Topic's author
#7
Swagnarok
Swagnarok's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 1,250
3
2
6
Swagnarok's avatar
Swagnarok
3
2
6
Today, Ukraine seized the strategic town of Lyman, which was an important railway hub for the Russian army. The town fell under the area which Russia claimed to have annexed, and thus which fell under Russia's nuclear umbrella.
But of course, there were no consequences for Ukraine taking back its territory.

In the grand scheme of things, today's event was insignificant by itself. However, each little victory like this will chip away at something: either Russia's illegitimate claims to Ukrainian territory or Russian national sovereignty itself. Every day where Ukraine gives Putin the finger and advances further and further past his red line in the sand is a good day.

9 days later

#8
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,623
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
Canada should impose sanctions on Ukraine. I never liked Ukraine. Stalin was right.
#9
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,006
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
Best.Korea: Canada should impose sanctions on Ukraine. I never liked Ukraine. Stalin was right.
Canada is a member of NATO if you don’t know that already.

Is Canada allies with Ukraine?
On December 2, 1991, Canada became the first western country to recognize Ukraine's independence. Since then, Canada and Ukraine have enjoyed a close bilateral relationship that spans cooperation on security and defence, trade, and advancing Ukraine's democratic and economic reform efforts.May 31, 2022

#10
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Best.Korea
Stalin, who wasn't even Russian, was a previous Soviet ideologue who succumbed to the same mental illnesses that Putin now suffers. Namely megalomania and paranoia.

As the saying goes, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
#11
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,006
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@Swagnarok
Today, Ukraine seized the strategic town of Lyman, which was an important railway hub for the Russian army. The town fell under the area which Russia claimed to have annexed, and thus which fell under Russia's nuclear umbrella.
But of course, there were no consequences for Ukraine taking back its territory.

In the grand scheme of things, today's event was insignificant by itself. However, each little victory like this will chip away at something: either Russia's illegitimate claims to Ukrainian territory or Russian national sovereignty itself. Every day where Ukraine gives Putin the finger and advances further and further past his red line in the sand is a good day.
Should Putin lose the Ukraine war. Russia will be charged with the cost of rebuilding all the cities and buildings they destroyed in Ukraine as well as charged with crimes against humanity. 
This is what Putin dragged Russia into. Losing is no longer an option for Putin.

#12
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,969
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Swagnarok
Did you also view the 2014 invasion as an "occupation?"

The Donetsk probably doesn't care about your 1st world notions of holidays or cheerleading.
#13
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,969
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
You have to wonder when edgelords claim they stand for Ukraine, do they mean East or West Ukraine?

I stand for East Ukraine personally.