Discuss.
Lord of the RIngs
Posts
Total:
39
Let no one imply that the abomination currently being shielded from reviews on Amazon Prime Video belongs in this thread. 95% of fan fiction is superior.
It's halfways a children's show. It feels like Stranger Things. But they spent a billion on it and it does reignite a wonder about that whole universe. At the very least, there's going to be fireworks. It's not as bad as everyone is making out.
Having watched the first two episodes, so far I’m enjoying
it and looking forward to the next episode. Although it is set in Middle Earth
it isn’t really an interpretation of Tolkien’s books, so has to be taken on its
own merit.
Apart from the Fellowship of the Ring, I didn’t really rate Peter Jackson's interpretation of Lord of the Rings, as for his Hobbit, he turned Bilbo and the dwarves into action super-heroes. I watched the first two films with growing dismay and then gave up.
Apart from the Fellowship of the Ring, I didn’t really rate Peter Jackson's interpretation of Lord of the Rings, as for his Hobbit, he turned Bilbo and the dwarves into action super-heroes. I watched the first two films with growing dismay and then gave up.
Why are Americans so fascinated by British classics?
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@Shila
Why are Americans so fascinated by British classics?
What do you mean by that? Personally I find American "classics" by authors such as Fitzgerald, Salinger, and Steinbeck rather boring, alongside contemporary British authors such as Woolf or Forster. If we go further back to the 1800s, I actually vastly prefer Twain to Dickens, so I would say my bias is more American than otherwise. Rudyard Kipling was a favorite, but so was Jack London, who, despite the name, was an American. My preferences have much more to do with themes and genre than the nationality of the author, to the extent that I was only confident on about half of the above on from which country they hailed.
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@Shila
Almost no one likes LOTR because it's British or a classic.
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@Shila
Why are Americans so fascinated by British classics?
They speak English. I'd argue that the English are even more entranced by Americans.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Almost no one likes LOTR because it's British or a classic.
I guess I'd have to disagree. I consider LOTR and the Hobbit very English and classic works of literature in the best sense.
Certainly the most influential work ever in fantasy writing, long before the movies were made. Issac Asimov's favorite books and I certainly think both authors shared an effortless mastery of language. Tolkien is describing all these foreign, supernatural things and it is amazing how economically he summons these visions.
I also think it is a very relatable document of Britishness between the wars- the "nation of shopkeepers" notion. I think Tolkien perfectly presages the National character and mood as the rough beast of war slouches toward Minas Tirith.
I think Tolkein's sense of sound and syllable has also profoundly impacted English storytelling. His choices of people names and place names are so evocative and influential that I think you can still tell good characters from bad in many fantasies just based on the syllabic vocabulary we inherit from Tolkien.
Unlike the Hobbit movies, almost all of my problems with the work so far is disagreements about interpretation of the very dry and academic history in the Silmarillion. Still, if I had no LOTR information or expectations, I think I would enjoy this world and the story so far. Galadriel as action hero, for example, seems rather forced but some epic heroine just swimming across the ocean with her knife is great and interesting. Traveling wizard hobbits are great. Lindon and Khazad-Dum are great. I guess I'll try to set aside all my prejudices and see the work on its own terms.
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@oromagi
They speak English. I'd argue that the English are even more entranced by Americans.
I can’t speak for everyone but from personal experience of
my fellow countrymen I would say we are not at all entranced by Americans, we are sometimes
fascinated but not always in a positive way.
It just doesn't interest me from bits I've heard about it, and pictures I've seen of it.
Other people can enjoy it if they want, lot of people seemed to enjoy baby Yoda and Disney Jango Fett,
But I just don't want to try it or Rings of Power,
Maybe someday I'll watch and think wow was I wrong, but not today.
I find your lack of actual original ideas within your recent topics disturbing.
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@oromagi
I guess I'd have to disagree. I consider LOTR and the Hobbit very English and classic works of literature in the best sense.
I didn't say it wasn't English. I didn't say it wasn't a classic. I said those aren't the reasons people like it. Do you like it because it's an English classic or do you like it because of the themes, characters, and plot?
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@Elliott
-->@oromagiThey speak English. I'd argue that the English are even more entranced by Americans.I can’t speak for everyone but from personal experience of my fellow countrymen I would say we are not at all entranced by Americans, we are sometimes fascinated but not always in a positive way.
Brits spend 51% of their day looking at TVs, pcs, laptops, smartphones all products of American science and culture. Since 33% of the day is spent sleeping that leaves 16% of each day for other activities. It is therefore accurate to say the average Brit spends 3 times as much time being entranced by American cultural artifacts then they do any other activity.
If you are not impressed by the internet, films like Star Wars and the Avenger, TV shows like Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad, music such as Rock & Roll, Hip-Hop, food like candy, peanut butter, fast food, potatoes, tomatoes, corn, soda pop, hamburgers, fried chicken, tech such as the transistor, the integrated circuit, dishwashers, refrigerators, microwave ovens, atomic energy, GPS that's fine- we have other interested customers.
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@oromagi
....we have other interested customers.
Talk about shifting the context. The casual use of "we" claiming representative status over the collective of all humans in the Americas from now into prehistory... just wow
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I guess I'd have to disagree. I consider LOTR and the Hobbit very English and classic works of literature in the best sense.I didn't say it wasn't English. I didn't say it wasn't a classic. I said those aren't the reasons people like it. Do you like it because it's an English classic or do you like it because of the themes, characters, and plot?
I don't think you can separate LOTR from its Englishness, although Jackson tried at points. The themes are very English between the wars- a great Evil thought conquered has arisen again to the Southeast, moving far faster and with greater numbers than Western leaders anticipated. Ordinary but doughty men who wish they were at home with their beer and pipe and Rosies must travel to foreign countries and join in with a hasty alliance of Westerners to stop the evil before it gets its hands on a world-destroying weapon, risk everything to preserve freedom and equality and the Shire way of life.
Unlike a classic American character, Frodo and Sam succeed by reserved persistence, by staying calm and carrying on and in the most desperate moments, thinking of their Queen Galadriel. Both master and servant both know their place and fulfill their roles uncomplainingly without making a fuss. The hobbits aren't just very Victorian characters, they represent a pre-WW1 world view.
If you took the English out of LOTR it would suck. If it wasn't a classic, most people would not have heard of it. Certainly, producers wouldn't be trying to wrangle some kind of interesting story out of the non-classic Silmarillion now.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Talk about shifting the context. The casual use of "we" claiming representative status over the collective of all humans in the Americas from now into prehistory... just wow
Another pronoun cop. great.
Clearly, the notion of taking pride in national achievement eludes you.
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@oromagi
Brits spend 51% of their day looking at TVs, pcs, laptops, smartphones all products of American science and culture. Since 33% of the day is spent sleeping that leaves 16% of each day for other activities. It is therefore accurate to say the average Brit spends 3 times as much time being entranced by American cultural artifacts then they do any other activity.If you are not impressed by the internet, films like Star Wars and the Avenger, TV shows like Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad, music such as Rock & Roll, Hip-Hop, food like candy, peanut butter, fast food, potatoes, tomatoes, corn, soda pop, hamburgers, fried chicken, tech such as the transistor, the integrated circuit, dishwashers, refrigerators, microwave ovens, atomic energy, GPS that's fine- we have other interested customers.
You said “Americans” which I took to mean the people and
presumably their culture, not the technology or local produce. Perhaps “entranced”
wasn’t the best choice of words as it suggests something that inspires wonder
and delight and I doubt if all Americans see it from that perspective.
Personally I think America has produced some amazing technological achievements and some great thinkers. Conversely,
I don’t think MAGA did the country any favours, although it did give us across the
pond something to laugh at.
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@Elliott
Perhaps “entranced” wasn’t the best choice of words
I know it gets used by art critics as "delightful" but I was thinking of "trance" "mesmerized" sense of the word when I said what I would argue, thinking of screens.
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@oromagi
Brits spend 51% of their day looking at TVs, pcs, laptops, smartphones all products of American science and culture. Since 33% of the day is spent sleeping that leaves 16% of each day for other activities. It is therefore accurate to say the average Brit spends 3 times as much time being entranced by American cultural artifacts then they do any other activity.If you are not impressed by the internet, films like Star Wars and the Avenger, TV shows like Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad, music such as Rock & Roll, Hip-Hop, food like candy, peanut butter, fast food, potatoes, tomatoes, corn, soda pop, hamburgers, fried chicken, tech such as the transistor, the integrated circuit, dishwashers, refrigerators, microwave ovens, atomic energy, GPS that's fine- we have other interested customers.
I can understand why you get like this, but the whole rest of the world invented a bunch of shit too. Money and wealth concentrated in the states and you lot did some shit with it. Shoulders of giants kinda thing. Nobody's ever going to clap you on the back for being rich.
Your nation isn't mentioned in my country without someone rolling their eyes. There's great people in America. You make fantastic television. It's sometimes hard to reconcile the fact that you make such compelling television with what we see on the news and of your politics. You're not kings of the world.
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@badger
I can understand why you get like this, but the whole rest of the world invented a bunch of shit too.
Nobody denies it, nor does any group invent stuff, make culture in a vacuum.
Recall this was a counterargument to "Brits not entranced by Americans."
Now an Irishman comes complaining about our wealth, tech, compelling culture, and dominance.
I think my argument is made that we Americans are more interesting to other nations than other nations care to admit.
I once read a great book of advice to British people travelling in the US. There was a great bit about cold drinks- Americans invented refrigeration and so are compelled to remind themselves of their genius by stuffing every glass of water, tea, juice, soda pop with incredible amounts of ice, making their drinks so cold you can't taste anything, making their drinks so cold it actually causes them pain which they laugh off as some kind of normal consequence. You have no choice in America but to drink most drinks too cold but to prevent painfully cold, you must always specify "no ice."
I once took a literary tour of Dublin pubs run by Trinity College which began with the tour guide wanting assurance that nobody present was from the state of Colorado in America. I said I was and the tour guide became deeply concerned because Coloradoans were the butt of every punchline on the tour, following Oscar WIlde's descriptions of his trip to Leadville in 1882. I assured the tour I was sporting and so proceeded 3 hours of Irish opinion about Americans fueled by half a pint of Guinness every 10 mins or so that will serve as everlasting and sufficient counterpoint to my national pride for the rest of my days.
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@oromagi
Look, I'm definitely a proud Irishman. Yours is definitely a great nation and maybe there's a bit of begrudgery in it. But you lot are fucking obnoxious lol. The rest of the world isn't feeling your America wank at all.
When you pull your heads out of your arses to make great television and music and art, well, it is that.
you lot are fucking obnoxious
fine.
What is your opinion on the topic you posted?
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@oromagi
I made the thread almost entirely to get your opinion, American friend.
I think it's a fun show. I wanna see what a billion dollar tv show looks like.
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@oromagi
fine.
I don't know how you can fine that like an angry girlfriend lol.
You know who knows what it is to be American? Louis CK. Wanking off in everyone else's faces. That's your whole global personality. While being a shitshow socially and politically.
How is it otherwise?
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@badger
Lord of the Rings is what made me love the English language. My 3rd grade teacher read us The Hobbit and I spent the summer reading the trilogy- the first very long books I had ever read. The first books I read with war and fear of death and sacrifice. I've never been much a fanboy but I wrote a letter to Tolkien and went to the library to find out his address. When the librarian advised me he was dead, I cried, and the poor librarian had to comfort me. I've never been much of fanboy but the Red Book version of The Hobbit and a little statuette of Gollum are two of my most beloved possessions.
To me, that world exists entirely independent of Amazon or Jackson (Dead Alive is still his best work) or Bakshi. If any outsiders influence my imagination it is the Brothers Hildebrandt. In much the same way I don't judge a film by the faults of the actors, I separate these LOTR works from my imagination, knowing that no artist's vision could rival that first imprint.
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@badger
I love Louis CK. We are both half Irish Catholics born in DC about a year apart- I can really relate to him.
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@oromagi
Lord of the Rings is what made me love the English language. My 3rd grade teacher read us The Hobbit and I spent the summer reading the trilogy- the first very long books I had ever read. The first books I read with war and fear of death and sacrifice. I've never been much a fanboy but I wrote a letter to Tolkien and went to the library to find out his address. When the librarian advised me he was dead, I cried, and the poor librarian had to comfort me. I've never been much of fanboy but the Red Book version of The Hobbit and a little statuette of Gollum are two of my most beloved possessions.To me, that world exists entirely independent of Amazon or Jackson (Dead Alive is still his best work) or Bakshi. If any outsiders influence my imagination it is the Brother Hildebrandt. In much the same way I don't judge a film by the faults of the actors, I separate these LOTR works from my imagination, knowing that no artist's vision could rival that first imprint.
That's a lovely post friend. I envy it.
I love Louis CK. We are both half Irish Catholics born in DC about a year apart- I can really relate to him.
I think he's the funniest comedian there ever was. But Tommy Tiernan is great fucking fun.