Atheism and humanism are completely contradictory

Author: Conservallectual

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@Tarik
so i can't have "objective morality" and also KNOW WHAT THE RULES ARE ?
That’s not the same as calling the rules impractical, that judgement call is based off knowing.
"objective morality" doesn't have any room for "judgement calls"
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@3RU7AL
"objective morality" doesn't have any room for "judgement calls"
Interesting how you say things like

i want to know what is right and what is wrong
and in the next breath say

"objective morality" doesn't have any room for "judgement calls"
You either know or you don’t.
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@Shila
Romans 13:1-2 says: "Obey the government, for God is the One who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the law of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow."
why did your god make kim jong-un the Supreme Leader of North Korea ?
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@Tarik
"objective morality" doesn't have any room for "judgement calls"
You either know or you don’t.
the whole point of "objective morality" is that it is NON-SUBJECTIVE

OBJECTIVE IS THE OPPOSITE OF SUBJECTIVE

"judgement calls" ARE BY DEFINITION SUBJECTIVE
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@3RU7AL
@Double_R
"judgement calls" ARE BY DEFINITION SUBJECTIVE
I guess you haven’t been following Double_R and I discussion but the definition of objective is 

(of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.
Keyword JUDGEMENT.
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@Tarik
for example,

what is the GOAL of "morality" itself ?

if everyone acted in a perfectly moral fashion

what would that result look like ?

is the GOAL of morality to increase human happiness ?

or is the GOAL of morality to make your god happy ?

what is the use-case for "morality" ?

what is the OBJECTIVE that "morality" leads to ?
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@Tarik
Keyword JUDGEMENT.
you should never have to make a personal judgement about "objective morality"

in the exact same way you should never have to make a personal judgement about mathematics

everyone should be able to "do the math" and see the exact same answer
Double_R
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@Tarik
No, they’re both demonstrating objectivity hence why in the definition it said (of a person or their judgment) meaning you can judge objectively but you can’t do it without a keyword mind, which is exactly what God did when He defined morality
Objectivity isn’t referring to the judging of anything, it’s referring to the essence of what’s being judged.

The earth is round. It takes a mind to utter the statement. It takes a mind to conceive of what “the earth” is pointing to as well as what “round” is pointing to. It takes a mind to compare the two.

The earth’s existence, and the shape it exists within, does not require and is not dependent on a mind. If all the minds in the universe believed it to be a different shape that would not impact its shape one bit.

Objectivity is talking about the latter concept, not the former. The fact that the mind does not impact the shape of the earth, because the earth and its shape are a part of existent reality, is what objectivity… is.

Morality is not a part of existent reality. You cannot point to it, you cannot actualize it, you cannot demonstrate it. Morality, even your conception of it, is entirely the product of a mind. Hence the truthfulness of any moral statement is decided upon by a mind. We call that subjectivity.

We learned this in third grade.

Definitions are nothing more than an attempt to convey concepts in their most basic form. A definition is not an argument and if you’re going to quote them you should really take the time to understand the concept they are conveying. 
3RU7AL
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@Double_R
Morality is not a part of existent reality. You cannot point to it, you cannot actualize it, you cannot demonstrate it.
perhaps some day we'll figure out how to build an accurate "moral-ometer"
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@Double_R
Morality is not a part of existent reality. You cannot point to it

We learned this in third grade.
Only things you can point at exist? 

Yep, that's third grade thinking alright.  
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@3RU7AL
how do you "objectively" measure morality ?
With a moral compass.
where can i buy one of these
At the morality store.

and where can i get it calibrated ?
Any NOUMENON service outlet
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@Sidewalker
Only things you can point at exist? 
it's the difference between CONCRETE NOUNS and ABSTRACT NOUNS
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@Sidewalker
Only things you can point at exist?  
Yes, if you cannot point to it in theory, it does not exist. This follows from the definition of “exist”.

Since you cherry picked that one part to disagree with, should I take that to mean that you agree with the rest of the post on what objectivity and subjectivity actually mean?
Sidewalker
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@3RU7AL
Keyword JUDGEMENT.
you should never have to make a personal judgement about "objective morality"
Then why are you blathering on and on about your personal judgement about objective morality?

How to you measure personal judgement"  Got a personal judgement meter?

in the exact same way you should never have to make a personal judgement about mathematics

everyone should be able to "do the math" and see the exact same answer
What's the square root of 4.  Is two the exact same answer as negative two?

Is non-Euclidean Geometry the exact same thing as Euclidean Geometry? 
Sidewalker
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@Double_R
Only things you can point at exist?  
Yes, if you cannot point to it in theory, it does not exist. This follows from the definition of “exist”.

Since you cherry picked that one part to disagree with, should I take that to mean that you agree with the rest of the post on what objectivity and subjectivity actually mean?
Since you cherry picked from my post, can I assume you agree that you are thinking on a thrid grade level?
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@Sidewalker
in the exact same way you should never have to make a personal judgement about mathematics

everyone should be able to "do the math" and see the exact same answer
What's the square root of 4.  Is two the exact same answer as negative two?

Is non-Euclidean Geometry the exact same thing as Euclidean Geometry? 
(IFF) you agree on the AXIOMS of mathematics (THEN) you can agree on the results of any specific mathematical calculation

(IFF) you agree on the AXIOMS of morality (THEN) you can agree on the results of any specific moral calculation
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@3RU7AL
Only things you can point at exist? 
it's the difference between CONCRETE NOUNS and ABSTRACT NOUNS
Just because logic and reason don't exist for you, doesn't mean they don't exist for the rest of us.
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@3RU7AL
in the exact same way you should never have to make a personal judgement about mathematics

everyone should be able to "do the math" and see the exact same answer
What's the square root of 4.  Is two the exact same answer as negative two?

Is non-Euclidean Geometry the exact same thing as Euclidean Geometry? 
(IFF) you agree on the AXIOMS of mathematics (THEN) you can agree on the results of any specific mathematical calculation

(IFF) you agree on the AXIOMS of morality (THEN) you can agree on the results of any specific moral calculation
So you really do think that two is the exact same answer as negative two?
Sidewalker
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@3RU7AL
How do you measure exist, do you have an exist-o-meter 
Double_R
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@Sidewalker
Since you cherry picked from my post, can I assume you agree that you are thinking on a thrid grade level?
Let me know when you have something intelligent to say.
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@Sidewalker
How do you measure exist, do you have an exist-o-meter 
are you familiar with physics and engineering ?
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@Sidewalker

--> @3RU7AL
How do you measure exist, do you have an exist-o-meter
Answer Double_R.
“Let me know when you have something intelligent to say.”

Answer 3RU7AL:
“are you familiar with physics and engineering ?”
Sidewalker
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@Double_R
Since you cherry picked from my post, can I assume you agree that you are thinking on a thrid grade level?
Let me know when you have something intelligent to say.
Good, you got it, mimicking what you typed was to show how unintelligent your comment was.

I was afraid it would be lost on a third grader mind.
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@Sidewalker
Just because logic and reason don't exist for you, doesn't mean they don't exist for the rest of us.
there is a clear and important difference between IDEAS and OBJECTS

IDEAS don't "exist" in the same way that OBJECTS "exist"

dragons and unicorns don't "exist" in the same way that cattle "exist"
Sidewalker
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@3RU7AL
Just because logic and reason don't exist for you, doesn't mean they don't exist for the rest of us.
there is a clear and important difference between IDEAS and OBJECTS
No shit.

IDEAS don't "exist" in the same way that OBJECTS "exist"
No shit again.

dragons and unicorns don't "exist" in the same way that cattle "exist"
Once again, maybe ideas don't exist  for you, but they do for the rest of us.


3RU7AL
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@Sidewalker
there is a clear and important difference between IDEAS and OBJECTS
No shit.

IDEAS don't "exist" in the same way that OBJECTS "exist"
No shit again.

dragons and unicorns don't "exist" in the same way that cattle "exist"
Once again, maybe ideas don't exist  for you, but they do for the rest of us.
cattle can be empirically measured and are therefore FACTUAL

dragons and unicorns can NOT be empirically measured and are therefore NOT FACTUAL
Sidewalker
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@3RU7AL
there is a clear and important difference between IDEAS and OBJECTS
No shit.

IDEAS don't "exist" in the same way that OBJECTS "exist"
No shit again.

dragons and unicorns don't "exist" in the same way that cattle "exist"
Once again, maybe ideas don't exist  for you, but they do for the rest of us.
cattle can be empirically measured and are therefore FACTUAL

dragons and unicorns can NOT be empirically measured and are therefore NOT FACTUAL
So you agree with the rest of us that your ideas are NOT FACTUAL.
Tarik
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@3RU7AL
what is the OBJECTIVE that "morality" leads to ?
Heaven

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@Double_R
Objectivity isn’t referring to the judging of anything
It literally said (of a person or their judgment) in the definition.

The earth’s existence, and the shape it exists within, does not require and is not dependent on a mind.
It requires God who created it.

You cannot point to it, you cannot actualize it, you cannot demonstrate it. Morality, even your conception of it, is entirely the product of a mind.
Not sure if the dictionary would take a religious position but I don’t think they had God in “mind” when they included that in the definition because our mind shouldn’t be compared to His. Lastly it seems like your backpedaling from your previous argument because before I said a subjective opinion can’t be taught and now your saying subjective morality can’t be demonstrated, which is basically the same thing.
3RU7AL
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@Sidewalker
So you agree with the rest of us that your ideas are NOT FACTUAL.
MORALITY is NOT an OBJECT

therefore,

MORALITY cannot be OBJECTIVE