Atheism and humanism are completely contradictory

Author: Conservallectual

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Lemming
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@Shila
"harp on
to talk about (a subject) constantly or repeatedly in an annoying way"

Might be you found my post harping,
Myself I'd find continuous focus and repetition on the use and definition of the word atheism, harping.

As I think the Topic originator was looking for something else in conversation, when he made his post.
Shila
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@Lemming
--> @Shila
"harp on
to talk about (a subject) constantly or repeatedly in an annoying way"

Might be you found my post harping,
Myself I'd find continuous focus and repetition on the use and definition of the word atheism, harping.

As I think the Topic originator was looking for something else in conversation, when he made his post.
Instead of showing or confirming contradictions between Atheism and Humanism you resorted to harping.

The OP asks: Atheism and humanism are completely contradictory.

All that is needed is a clear definition of each.

Humanism is an approach to life based on reason and our common humanity, recognising that moral values are properly founded on human nature and experience alone. While atheism is merely the absence of belief, humanism is a positive attitude to the world, centred on human experience, thought, and hopes


Lemming
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@Shila
In response to your harping claim that I've been harping,

As for the rest you say,
I'm not inclined to comment.
Shila
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@Lemming

--> @Shila
In response to your harping claim that I've been harping,
You keep using that word. - YouTube

As for the rest you say,
I'm not inclined to comment.

The OP asks for comments not harping.
If you are not inclined to comment, then you were just harping.

zedvictor4
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@Lemming
Didn't know that you played the harp?
Lemming
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@zedvictor4
Heh.
zedvictor4
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@Lemming
Is Heh an Aussie word?
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@zedvictor4
Well, myself I mean "heh", as a short, somewhat amused laugh.
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@Lemming
Nice.
K_Michael
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Humans do all the most interesting shit. That's not to say I don't care about what animals and proteins and stars are doing. But my main area of concern is what we are doing. Now, technically, I'm a transhumanist, which in this context means I think humans could stand to be a lot cooler than they are now. In no way does it discount humanity as it currently stands, because it's still the best there is rn. If I met an alien race today, I would place them at an equal or higher point of interest because 1. they do interesting shit, and 2. I know nothing about them, which makes them more interesting.
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@K_Michael
Humans do all the most interesting shit. That's not to say I don't care about what animals and proteins and stars are doing. But my main area of concern is what we are doing. Now, technically, I'm a transhumanist, which in this context means I think humans could stand to be a lot cooler than they are now. In no way does it discount humanity as it currently stands, because it's still the best there is rn. If I met an alien race today, I would place them at an equal or higher point of interest because 1. they do interesting shit, and 2. I know nothing about them, which makes them more interesting.
I would place you high on the list of people who should join the aliens. Anyone who finds alien shit interesting should  be allowed to do all the most interesting shit with it.

K_Michael
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@Shila
I'd be first in line.
Conservallectual
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This discussion got real hot real quick (O_O)
Shila
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@K_Michael
--> @Shila
I'd be first in line.
Try not to get ahead of yourself.

Double_R
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@Tarik
The only way morality makes sense is if it’s objective.
And what is your objective moral standard?
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@Double_R
And what is your objective moral standard?
Love
Ramshutu
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@Conservallectual
Secular humanism is a contradiction. Here's why(note: I am neither an atheist or a humanist) :

Humanism: puts humans at a prime moral/social/philosophical importance.

Atheism: there is no god, therefore there is no afterlife, therefore nothing you do or think matters at all. There is no moral standpoint, only what you like matters.

Here's the problem: In an atheist worldview, why do humans have to be more important than animals? Why aren't monkeys or rats of prime moral importance? Why of all the animals supposedly generated by blind natural processes do humans have to be of any major moral importance? After all, in atheistic worldview, a very good person who does good things like donating to charities, saving people, being kind to others, has the same fate as an evil man who kills everyone he doesn't like, steals whatever he wants, and has lots of hatred - when they both die, they completely disappear. This is the problem with every atheistic world view that claims to have a strong moral code - like communism. 
There’s a lot to unpack. Let’s start off with morality.


Regardless of whether there is or is not an afterlife, morality exists. We make moral decisions and do our best to construct and explain moral frameworks. We are all driven - to a greater or lesser extent by concepts of good and bad, moral and immoral.

Whether or not our actions truly matter on a universal scale; or to some external diety - does not change the fact that it still matters to us.

In the framework of atheism, the stars don’t give a sh*t if the earth winks out tomorrow. If races are wiped out, if we all suffer and die, or if transgender girls are able to use the wrong bathroom. But we ourselves still remain moral creatures and it matters to us.

In this respect - the lack of an afterlife doesn’t mean that morality “doesn’t matter”, it simply constrains who it matters to, to humans.



Contrast this to a typical afterlife. If someone is looking forward to some infinitely positive reward in heaven - does their suffering in this world really matter that much?

If our life is a mere blip - a nothing : just a test as a prelude to a real reward - does our doing anything beyond the minimum necessary to secure paradise actually matter? Obviously not.

Likewise, we are here for a few short Years - 100 tops. This is the only life we get. It is our only chance. I every one of our decisions at every point matters as a result. 

At its most basic level - in a world without god, where thus earth is not just the preliminary test for a world that matters, what we do is all we have, our choices are the most important we will ever make.
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@Shila
Try not to get ahead of yourself.
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Avery
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@Tarik
It’s more than just a problem, it’s enough to cause reasonable doubt. The simple fact that your view of morality contradicts itself is enough to come to the conclusion that it’s nonexistent. Judging by your definition of morality one can have no logical concept of fairness leaving no choice but impartiality. The only way morality makes sense is if it’s objective.
I'm not arguing that subjective morality is consistent. I'm arguing that there is no objective morality.
zedvictor4
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@Conservallectual
This discussion got real hot real quick.

Hot shit.

Must have been eating chilli's.
zedvictor4
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@Tarik.

I love Ice Cream.

Is that what morality is.
Deb-8-a-bull
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Laying down / planting a landmine during war time and it kills a unintended person 40  years later. 

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@zedvictor4
I reckon your a Butterscotch brittle ice cream kind of guy. 
Thats moral. 
I'd say it is imorral to like anything licorice flavored.  
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A grenade lands in ya foxhole. 
20 or so people around. 
You jump on it saving everyone but killing yourself. 
Thats Suicide.   
Extremely moral suicide. 
 
Polytheist-Witch
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@Ramshutu

In the framework of atheism, the stars don’t give a sh*t if the earth winks out tomorrow. If races are wiped out, if we all suffer and die, or if transgender girls are able to use the wrong bathroom. But we ourselves still remain moral creatures and it matters to us.
LOL 😂
Tarik
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@Avery
I'm not arguing that subjective morality is consistent. I'm arguing that there is no objective morality.
I know your argument, question is have you been paying attention to mine?
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Butterscotch brittle sounds like love and morality to me.

Liquorice ice cream, immoral without a doubt.
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@Tarik
I know your argument, question is have you been paying attention to mine?
Perfectly.

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@Avery
Perfectly.
Okay, but what’s your retort? Because being redundant in your position after I already countered it isn’t really advancing anything.
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@Tarik
Okay, but what’s your retort? Because being redundant in your position after I already countered it isn’t really advancing anything.
You didn't counter. You argued that subjective morality doesn't exist because it can contradict (which of course it can -- it's subjective). 

You then argued that we can't have a "logical conception of fairness" which I've already addressed -- you're correct but you can also have intersubjectivity. People can talk to each other and come up with intersubjective morality which won't be 100% consistent, but will be consistent enough for a lot of people. Not everyone agrees with Christian notions of morality, but a lot of people intersubjectively agree with it. Same with Islam. Same with Buddhism etc.