The Second Amendment - obsolete and in need of reform

Author: IwantRooseveltagain

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IwantRooseveltagain
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@TWS1405
The 2A includes the words “a well regulated militia” for a reason. Certainly you must concede that fact. Now, why did they include those words and what did “well regulated” mean in 1787 to educated elites?

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@TWS1405
Of course, of course. You know what this country needs is to hear the opinions of more retired baby boomers.
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@TWS1405
I am a constitutionalist and educated in matters of various aspects of the law, both academically and professionally. 
More than familiar with legislative historical intent, purpose and application of the laws application.

Well I see you are retired. How did you gain all this expertise in the law and legislation?

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@IwantRooseveltagain
It's kind of rude for someone who's ex-military to make fun of people who might commit suicide with their guns. We lose on average 6,000 military to suicide a year. 
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@IwantRooseveltagain
What is a militia?

"A military force that is not part of a regular army and is subject to call for service in an emergency." - i.e., the citizenry (i.e., the people). 

How is a militia to be armed if not being pre-armed of their own accord? 

"...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms..."

A militia is an accompaniment (Something added for embellishment, completeness, or symmetry; complement.) to the regular armed forces of the state. 

No state government employing armed forces is going to also give equal access to the same weapons of those armed forces, especially if they would never be called upon. Therefore, it is "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms" should they need be called upon to accompaniment the armed forces to protect the state. 

It's not rocket sicence. 

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@Polytheist-Witch
The guy reeks of stolen valor. I say this as a military vet.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
I thought all you whack job, Trumpers were pro law enforcement. Oh, except the ones at the Capital. I know gun nuts all have fantasies about rescuing a woman from a motorcycle gang or saving the country from tyranny, but that’s not gonna happen. More likely you’ll get depressed after a divorce or losing your job and you’ll  take your gun and kill a bunch of people, perhaps your boss and some co-workers or you will simply commit suicide. That’s much more likely. Half of all gun deaths each year are suicides - about 24,000.

Such a good post. FLRW is right, you're Intelligent Man. 
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@IwantRooseveltagain
"Of course, of course. You know what this country needs is to hear the opinions of more retired baby boomers."
Ad hominem. 
Not a boomer. Born after that era. And such an insult doesn't insult me. Just speaks volumes about you and your unsubstantiated position. 


"Well I see you are retired. How did you gain all this expertise in the law and legislation?"
From prior experience and continued personal education. DUH!!! 

You are no rocket scientist, that's for sure. 
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@TWS1405
I think if you read the Wiki article on mass stabbings you’ll learn that these incidents are a lot less likely to result in multiple deaths the way mass shootings do. That’s why armies use assault weapons in war rather than trying to kill people with knives and bayonets. Guns are way more deadly, genius.
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@TWS1405
Really, prior experience and personal education. That’s so interesting.  What are you trying so hard not to say? You don’t have a law degree but you play a lawyer in your mind? And did you retire at such a young age because you were so financially successful?
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@IwantRooseveltagain
This is what you asked:

Have you ever read about a mass killing with a stabbing object?

I replied in the affirmative with cited case(s). 

Proved you wrong. 

End of story. 
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@TWS1405
Did you know arms for the militia in Philadelphia were kept in a second floor room in what is now Independence Hall? Seems those weapons were issued by the local authorities.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
You asked:

Well I see you are retired. How did you gain all this expertise in the law and legislation?

And I answered. Academic, professional experience and continued personal research. Your sophomoric retort:


Really, prior experience and personal education. That’s so interesting.  What are you trying so hard not to say? You don’t have a law degree but you play a lawyer in your mind? And did you retire at such a young age because you were so financially successful?
I possess two degrees in the legal arena. 

I do not need a law degree to best a lawyer. As I have bested high paid lawyers before (in HOA real estate area, car purchases, VA disability benefits). It is all about who can present the better argument. Always. 

And yeah, I retired early because I am so smart financially. Your piss poor attempt at this ad hominem of yours is an epic failure. Speaks volumes about your confidence in your own argument here where the 2A is concerned. 
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@IwantRooseveltagain
arms

noun plural
  1. Instruments or weapons of offense or defense.

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@TWS1405
No, you did not prove me wrong. The stabbings were not mass killings. They were mass stabbings where few victims actually died. That’s the point. You saying we shouldn’t ban assault weapons because then people would just replace the rifles with pointy objects is stupid because pointy objects aren’t nearly as effective at killing as an assault rifle.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
No, you did not prove me wrong. The stabbings were not mass killings. They were mass stabbings where few victims actually died. That’s the point. You saying we shouldn’t ban assault weapons because then people would just replace the rifles with pointy objects is stupid because pointy objects aren’t nearly as effective at killing as an assault rifle.
LOL!!!! 

Yeah, I did. 

Mass shootings are defined differently based on number of shot and killed. Not all need be killed, only shot. Same goes for stabbings you dunce. 

Hands, fists and feet [still] kill more people EVERY YEAR than rifles of any kind. 

End of story. 
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@TWS1405
This is funny, you must really be proud of that education you got in a correspondence course. Two degrees in the legal arena. So we established you are not a lawyer but you like to pretend you are one. Were you like the top paralegal at minor law firm or are you certified in arbitration? 
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@TWS1405
Mass shootings are defined differently based on number of shot and killed. Not all need be killed, only shot. 
Wrong again! What do you think the definition of a mass shooting is and cite a credible source.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
This is funny, you must really be proud of that education you got in a correspondence course. Two degrees in the legal arena. So we established you are not a lawyer but you like to pretend you are one. Were you like the top paralegal at minor law firm or are you certified in arbitration? 
Ad hominem, appeal to mockery, and strawman arguments.

Again, speaks volumes to your impotency to defend your own proffered position(s) on the topic at hand. 

Mass shootings are defined differently based on number of shot and killed. Not all need be killed, only shot. 
Wrong again! What do you think the definition of a mass shooting is and cite a credible source.
It is not what I think it is, but what you "think" it is since you are the one asserting/using it in your asinine rebuttals. 
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@TWS1405
Um, do you think because you cry ad hominem every time I mock you it some how makes your personal attacks totally different? That’s very strange. Were you enlisted in the Army? I’ve got to believe so.

And so you have no idea what the definition of a mass shooting is. It absolutely is about the number of people killed. (Not shot) You can Google it.

Try the FBI definition or the CDC 
Athias
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@IwantRooseveltagain
The Second Amendment reads as follows: A well regulated Militia...
Just reading this informs me that you haven't read the 9th amendment. But even if there were no "amendments" or "bill of rights," you could not justify stripping, disarming, or modifying the right an entire populace has to purchase, possess and own firearms. You're not the first person to join this forum who has attempted to proffer a pretext using semantics--not that you even got the semantic deconstruction correct--and you won't be the last.

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@Athias
Do tell. What makes you think I haven’t read the 9th amendment? Do you think I’m advocating banning all firearms? If so why do you think that?
 Are Americans allowed to buy automatic weapons? Thompson machine guns like the Al Capone days or a .30 caliber belt fed machine guns? If we can ban those, and we have, why not Semi-automatic rifles with detachable magazines? Do you have any experience with firearms? I was a Captain in the Marines and I own several guns.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Do tell.
I did tell.

What makes you think I haven’t read the 9th amendment?
Because the 9th amendment expressly repels the notions of semantic warriors like yourself from using that which isn't explicitly delineated in the Bill of Rights as means to deny one's rights.

Do you think I’m advocating banning all firearms?
Don't care.

Are Americans allowed to buy automatic weapons?
No, but no force should prevent them from doing so.

Thompson machine guns like the Al Capone days or a .30 caliber belt fed machine guns?
I wouldn't know. To be frank, I didn't know that Tommy guns were still manufactured.

If we can ban those, and we have, why not Semi-automatic rifles with detachable magazines?
Why are you appealing to common practice rather than substantiating or justifying any measure which would attempt to BAN firearms?

Do you have any experience with firearms?
Yes.

I was a Captain in the Marines
So?

and I own several guns.
Any automatics?
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@Athias
Do you think people should be allowed to own nuclear bombs?
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-->@TWS1405
Um, do you think because you cry ad hominem every time I mock you it some how makes your personal attacks totally different? That’s very strange. Were you enlisted in the Army? I’ve got to believe so.
Somehow is one word, not two. 

Not all ad hominems are true ad hominems. Depends on the context juxtaposed to the observation. I never use them unless deservedly so, which makes them via observation and not fallacious. If you're being a prick, an idiot, etc... yeah, a spade is a spade. Can't dance around that observable fact. 

And so you have no idea what the definition of a mass shooting is. It absolutely is about the number of people killed. (Not shot) You can Google it.

Try the FBI definition or the CDC 

All definitions differ. And it is to you who conflated mass killings with mass shootings. Not me. 

Attention to detail matters. 
Reading comprehension matters. 
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@Athias
It never ceases to amaze me how many people wrongly believe the Constitution grants rights when it actually has one purpose only. To strip rights from the government.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
I was a Captain in the Marines and I own several guns
And I bet several subordinate Marines had your name on their ammo too.

Being a Captain doesn't make you right. In fact, it just makes you a glorified ButterBar! 

And if you own several guns, then what the hell is it that you are even arguing here!?! Because it is patently clear you do NOT understand/comprehend the original intent (and future longevity) of the 2A. 
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@Greyparrot
It guarantees rights, not grants rights where the BOR are concerned. 
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@TWS1405
It doesn't really guarantee rights though. The government doesn't provide venues for speech nor does it produce firearms for people to own.
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@Greyparrot
It doesn't really guarantee rights though. The government doesn't provide venues for speech nor does it produce firearms for people to own.
Oh FFS! 

The BOR does guarantee rights. It is in the fucking name: BILL OF RIGHTS

"The Bill of Rights is the first 10 Amendments to the Constitution. It spells out Americans’ rights in relation to their government. It guarantees civil rights and liberties to the individual—like freedom of speech, press, and religion. It sets rules for due process of law and reserves all powers not delegated to the Federal Government to the people or the States. And it specifies that “the enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.” 

"Bill of Rights, in the United States, the first 10 amendments to the U.S. Constitution, which were adopted as a single unit on December 15, 1791, and which constitute a collection of mutually reinforcing guarantees of individual rights and of limitations on federal and state governments."

Get a clue Mr. Magoo!