Does the Existence Of The Universe Disprove A Perfect God?

Author: DebateAllDaTings

Posts

Total: 9
DebateAllDaTings
DebateAllDaTings's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 78
0
1
2
DebateAllDaTings's avatar
DebateAllDaTings
0
1
2
Clearly there is some good-making feature the universe has that God lacks, or else God would not create the universe at all. Basically, God would only create a universe if it instantiated some new good-making property.

However, if God is perfect, then God must have all good-making properties ***already*** in order to be perfect. If he lacks some good that only an additional creation can provided, then he cannot be perfect prior to the universe. 

The argument in formal form:

P1. If a “Perfect Creator” exists, This Perfect being created a new good-making property by creating the universe 

P2. If a “Perfect Creator” exists, God could not have created a new good-making property, as one must have all good-making properties already to be Perfect

C. A “Perfect Creator” entails a logical contradiction (God created a new good-making property, but God cannot create a new good-making property).
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,814
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@DebateAllDaTings

Yes, actually 22 sextillion planets disprove a perfect God.
DebateAllDaTings
DebateAllDaTings's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 78
0
1
2
DebateAllDaTings's avatar
DebateAllDaTings
0
1
2
-->
@FLRW
Even one particle would do the trick
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,198
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@DebateAllDaTings
Perfection is a variable  concept relative to varying human expectation.

A GOD might see things differently.

As might someone else.


SO what would be your perfect GOD.

Presumably one that didn't create a Universe.

And therefore no DebateAllDaTings.


Perhaps GOD got bored and lonely.

Are boredom and loneliness imperfections?
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,814
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8

Does Caitlyn Jenner disprove a perfect God?
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,198
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@FLRW
Maybe GOD thinks that blokes in frocks are horny.

After all, who decides what is perfect.

Us or GOD.
DebateAllDaTings
DebateAllDaTings's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 78
0
1
2
DebateAllDaTings's avatar
DebateAllDaTings
0
1
2
-->
@zedvictor4
It is objectively true that a perfect being (maximally great) would have ALL possible good-making qualities, not just SOME.

ALL is greater than SOME.

So my argument has nothing to do with relative subjective ideas of perfection, but we are talking about something objective.

For example, it is objectively true that a perfect circle is ALL round not just SOME round with some lines and edges.

This has nothing to do with preference.

It is a logical fact that in order for a being to perfect this being would have to have ALL possible good-making qualities, as ALL is greater than SOME and to be perfect is to be maximally great.
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,198
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@DebateAllDaTings
Says who.

You or GOD.


And  circular is, but isn't always perfect. Though a perfect circle is measurably perfect.

This was a brief, subjective appraisal of the concept of circularity.


And good is as subjective as bad is.

So a Maximally Great Being might not agree with you.


It's interesting that humans assume to know what's best for GODDO.

Which I would suggest, is actually a truism.

25 days later

Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,198
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@DebateAllDaTings
The argument in formal form:

P1. If a “Perfect Creator” exists, This Perfect being created a new good-making property by creating the universe 

P2. If a “Perfect Creator” exists, God could not have created a new good-making property, as one must have all good-making properties already to be Perfect

C. A “Perfect Creator” entails a logical contradiction (God created a new good-making property, but God cannot create a new good-making property).
Every action has an equal but opposite reaction.

For the universe to function these opposites have to exist.
God created the universe in a way so we would learn to understand the laws of nature.