Nabal

Author: ethang5

Posts

Total: 29
Topic's author
#1
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
Both Psalm 14:1 and Psalm 53:1 read, “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.’”

Some take these verses to mean that atheists are stupid, i.e., lacking intelligence. However, that is not the only meaning of the Hebrew word translated “fool.” In this text, the Hebrew word is nabal, which often refers to an impious person who has no perception of ethical or religious truth.

The meaning of the text is not “unintelligent people do not believe in God.” Rather, the meaning of the text is “sinful people do not believe in God.” In other words, it is a wicked thing to deny God, and a denial of God is often accompanied by a wicked lifestyle.

The verse goes on to list some other characteristics of the irreligious: “They are corrupt; their deeds are vile; / there is no one who does good.” Psalm 14 is a study on the universal depravity of mankind.

Many atheists are very intelligent. It is not intelligence, or a lack thereof, that leads a person to reject belief in God. It is a lack of righteousness that leads a person to reject belief in God.

Many people do not object to the idea of a Creator, as long as that Creator minds His own business and leaves them alone. What people reject is the idea of a Creator who demands morality from His creation. Rather than struggle against a guilty conscience, some people reject the idea of God altogether. Psalm 14:1 calls this type of person a “fool.”

#2
Castin
Castin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,239
3
2
7
Castin's avatar
Castin
3
2
7
It wouldn't be the first time I was called unrighteous just for being an atheist. But the Bible says there is no one on Earth who is righteous, not even one.
Topic's author
#3
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
-->
@Castin
That is correct. You aren't unrighteous because you're an atheist. Only one person is righteous, and every one else who gains righteousness gets it from Him through imputation. Even Christians. Atheists are unrighteous because they don't know, and deny, the only one who is righteous.
#4
EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
-->
@Castin
It wouldn't be the first time I was called unrighteous just for being an atheist.

It may sound weird, but as a general rule of thumb all of us in the flesh are "unrighteous" not just unbelievers. It's kind of a spiritual principle and basic understanding that the flesh is weak, it's not really an insult to the actual person more than it's an understanding we all fall short of perfection and can aspire to the Creator. Not that we are supposed to be perfect, but that we understand where and why we should surrender to God. Surrendering puts the person in a position to receive, not surrender in a tyrannical way but in a way where we know God is our rock and fortress. It's not really meant to condemn people more than it is meant for the ego to get checked at the door. Unfortunately many things get twisted through religious doctrines and are used abusively. Creation is a cause and effect reality not a believe or not believe or you will be tortured reality, and you will never get anything that does not correlate with your actions as a general rule of thumb. 

But the Bible says there is no one on Earth who is righteous, not even one.

Correct, but again it's not condemnation but a reality that the flesh is weak by nature. Which of course is the point of spirituality, to learn how to distinguish between flesh and spirit. 
#5
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
I am glad that god is more concerned with atheists then non Christian theists. 
#6
EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
Some principles are universal, meaning they are legit all the way across the board regardless of beliefs or different paths of religion. Your spiritual practice does not teach that the flesh nature is weak? I would think it's a universal understanding no?
#7
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@EtrnlVw
The flesh nature is nature. It's is only as weak as you are. Sex, drugs, drinking, pain, eating are all ok as long as you are not abusing people or yourself. Some of those things can be used to achieve states that allow you to be open to the gods in different ways. The only wrongs in my religion are breaking oaths and out right murder. 
#8
EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
The flesh nature is nature. It's is only as weak as you are.

I agree with that actually, but the point is that the flesh has a vulnerable nature to it in general. Someone always working through the flesh only might not know it is the spirit that will elevate the person beyond the physical and beyond just this experience. The "spirit" being of course our conscious awareness away from the flesh body, the principle is meant to get the individual to switch their attention away from the flesh and its desires and to hopefully transcend it. 

The only wrongs in my religion are breaking oaths and out right murder. 

While that's interesting, it leaves a lot of doors open, haha. 
#9
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@EtrnlVw
I agree with that actually, but the point is that the flesh has a vulnerable nature to it in general. Someone always working through the flesh only might not know it is the spirit that will elevate the person beyond the physical and beyond just this experience. The "spirit" being of course our conscious awareness away from the flesh body, the principle is meant to get the individual to switch their attention away from the flesh and its desires and to hopefully transcend it. 

If you are spiritually weak then your standing with the gods is weak. In the pre Christian northern religions the gods are considered having jobs and roles. One doesn't call on them for small stuff. Our dead and ancestors work for and with us in a daily basis. So if you are lost in the flesh then your interaction with the gods is probably limited anyway. But the gods are not pushishers. If you break the two rules then the rot is soul is eaten by a dragon. 

While that's interesting, it leaves a lot of doors open, haha. 


Yes it does. But our actions in general do effect our wyrd, luck, which can effect the next generation.  The things you do to hurt people can lead to a stain on your line that could keep them from doing well. You still want to move that luck down the line. 
#10
EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
-->
@Polytheist-Witch

If you are spiritually weak then your standing with the gods is weak.

I agree with that. Is that why the principle is taught you think?

Do you believe in the law of Karma? or as Jesus puts it...you reap what ya sow? is that a part of your religious beliefs?
#11
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@EtrnlVw
I agree with that. Is that why the principle is taught you think?

Do you believe in the law of Karma? or as Jesus puts it...you reap what ya sow? is that a part of your religious beliefs?
I think in life you do. The afterlife sort of. Wyrd works different in that it gets passed on down your blood line. Your actions can hurt the future. I am not sure about afterlife punishment. 
#12
EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
Wyrd works different in that it gets passed on down your blood line.

I've actually never heard of the term "wyrd". Yeah I believe Karma is not restricted to a single lifetime and many times you might not see the full extent of retribution in a persons single lifetime. As a natter of fact, it is what dictates a persons future experience when they leave the physical body. Our actions and desires are what we experience afterlife. While Karma does indeed impact the individual in their current life, sometimes a single life does not teach what lessons should be learned.
For example, say I abused woman as a man and I replayed this behavior all throughout my life. In the afterlife or reincarnation I may be subject to a female body and have to experience what I put others through. This is kind of how Karma get's the point across because we have to experience what we make others endure and sometimes we can never know until we are that which we assaulted. 
The reason for the bloodline thing, is because souls are sent into families and situations that are similar in nature and what they need to learn that this particular situation could simulate. So a lot of times you see what looks like generational problems. In reality it is just souls learning the same lessons that had the same line of issues. Don't get me wrong though, there are things that are passed down from generations to the next soul but they were specifically placed within that environment to learn.
#13
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@EtrnlVw
Well Wyrd does factor in reincarnation.The Germanic/ Norse religion doesn't really do much reincarnation. It's about the line of blood from parent to child and so on. A "curse" can carry for hundreds of years until a person does something to remove it.


#14
EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
Understood. I like to learn new spiritual terms, it helps to push the envelope on our own knowledge. 
#15
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Castin
If you say there is no truth, you are wrong.

That is what an atheist is doing when they say there is no God.

That is why is is not right (unrighteous) to say "there is no God".


#16
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
It is not written in vain that only a fool says in their heart that there is no God.


If you really truly believe that The Truth doesn't exist, there is something fundamentally wrong with you.
#17
EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
-->
@Mopac
If you say there is no truth, you are wrong.

But did she say that? what I keep trying to get you to consider is that atheists have no reason to believe truth is anything other than truth. They don't correlate truth with God because it is not evident, only to us is it evident. 

That is what an atheist is doing when they say there is no God.

I don't believe that. You have interlocked the idea of truth with the concept of God and while that is not necessarily wrong it is only your personal perception of what truth means. 

That is why is is not right (unrighteous) to say "there is no God".

There is nothing unrighteous about it if it is just a genuine belief, it's only a perception. Perceptions are a dime a dozen but it doesn't always mean the person is unrighteous, they just have yet to accept what we have accepted. Not that it is untrue, but when you label others as unrighteous it is somewhat of an insult and you leave the person wondering why they are being labeled unrighteous. That is why I point out the objective of the principle and its purpose instead of just claiming atheists are unrighteous. 
I'm confused why Theists want to push atheists away instead of bringing them under their wing. Part of that is accepting them for what they are and not labeling them and degrading them. 


#18
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@EtrnlVw
No, thats what it means.

Can't compromise on this.


The Ultimate Reality

The Supreme Being

The Absolute

Any compromise on this does not benefit the atheist who is WRONG. I can not compromise on this anymore than I can compromise on the meanings on numbers in basic arithmetic.

A 2 is not a 3 or a 2.2... its a 2...


And this can't be compromised, because every atheist argument is contingent on compromising this, and nothing better exposes atheism as a foolish position than showing how atheists will still argue against God if that means The Truth.

In fact, you can get a whole forum of atheists to believe that The Ultimate Reality exists. As soon as you tell them that this is what God means, they will argue ahainst The Ultimate Reality.

That is because atheism by nature is the embracing of arbitrariness, it is not a valid position, neither does it deserve the charity of being entertained as valid.

It is wholly destructive, and I suhhest you ponder how what I am saying is true and get on the same page. 

Atheism is a superstitious position.

That's really that.


#19
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@Mopac
You are a bit of a stuck record, mo!
#20
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@keithprosser
The Truth doesn't change, Keith.
#21
SkepticalOne
SkepticalOne's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 1,720
3
3
7
SkepticalOne's avatar
SkepticalOne
3
3
7
-->
@ethang5
Atheists are unrighteous because they don't know, and deny, the only one who is righteous.

Atheists are disliked (a.k.a. unrighteous) because they recognize unsubstantiated stories about "the only one who is righteous" as dubious evidence for existence of a godman. “The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” George Orwell  
#22
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@SkepticalOne
I am a bit of an Orwell nerd - I 've read just about every novel, newspaper articles and poem he ever wrote and I couldn't place that quote - so this is interesting!   https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/11/george_orwell_is_stealing_my_work.html

#23
SkepticalOne
SkepticalOne's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 1,720
3
3
7
SkepticalOne's avatar
SkepticalOne
3
3
7
-->
@keithprosser
I stand corrected. May Selwyn forgive me!
Topic's author
#24
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
-->
@SkepticalOne
Conservatives believe man was created in God's image, while liberals believe they are gods. All of the behavioral tics of the liberals proceed from their godless belief that they can murder the unborn because they, the liberals, are themselves gods. They try to forcibly create "equality" through affirmative action and wealth redistribution because they are gods. They flat-out lie, with no higher power to constrain them, because they are gods. They adore pornography and the mechanization of sex because man is just an animal, and they are gods. They revere the U.N. and not the U.S. because they aren't Americans — they are gods.

This is an observation by Ann Coulter, and though she is specifically talking about liberals here, she might as well be talking about atheists. This is the underlying reason for their error.

This is the trick Adam fell to, "If you eat it, you will be like God." And the error Satan fell to, "I will be like God."

I see now that the sin is not in just wanting to be God, but in that if you elevate yourself to God, you start behaving as if you are God, but since you aren't, you abuse other people and dishonestly impersonate God.

The easy out is to simply say, there isn't any God.
#25
SkepticalOne
SkepticalOne's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 1,720
3
3
7
SkepticalOne's avatar
SkepticalOne
3
3
7
-->
@ethang5
This is an observation by Ann Coulter
It is a mistake to equate liberal and atheist. After all, there are conservative atheists and liberal theists. Regardless, bodily autonomy, equality, etc., should not be restricted to the gods.



Topic's author
#26
ethang5
ethang5's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 5,875
3
3
6
ethang5's avatar
ethang5
3
3
6
-->
@SkepticalOne
It is a mistake to equate liberal and atheist. 
Not in the American context.
#27
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@ethang5
The easy out is to simply say, there isn't any God.
The truth is gods are the invention of men.

#28
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@ethang5
His religion is confused with his politics, understandable given the wrongness of both.
#29
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@ethang5
Since you are quoting the correct Testament of the Bible that was actually the real God speaking, you will find that it literally does mean atheists are fools.