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Author: Deb-8-a-bull

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#61
3RU7AL
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@Lemming
Gnostics are a gap religion between monotheism and polytheism. They believe in this one true secret God out there beyond the universe that nobody could know and never really created anything. And they believe Christ served that god and not the god of Abraham. They believe the other gods are real and you can work through them to get the best one true God that's for some reason hiding out beyond the edge of the universe. They also are heavily influenced by psychology there's a lot of Jungian concepts and there's a lot of alchemy and a occult concepts. The major arcana in the tarot that was developed by Crowley, the Fool's journey, is sort of based on the Gnostic journey. They also believe that there is a divine feminine aspect tied to the divine masculine. They're more of don't follow religious rules follow spiritual practices kind of thing which makes me believe he's not a gnostic at all because he engages from what I can tell in no spiritual practice whatsoever. It sounds to me like he has been influenced by psychologist who was trying to let him keep his Christian religious aspects intact that he liked but getting rid of those stuff he didn't like.  Because he only speaks to certain concepts within the religion and not all the other stuff as a matter of fact he tends to turn down his nose to a lot of the other stuff so I don't know how he thinks he can practice one aspect of the religion but not the others. But either way I'm pretty sure he's just somebody who also has another account here because of the way he posts are too familiar with another poster and this is just a way for him to beat up on Christians but say he's a theist. But a lot of the Masons and other ceremonial magical practices including Crowley's Thelma are based off Gnostic texts. And Thelma is the basis for Wicca which was developed in the 50s/60s. 
a gnostic is simply someone who has "seen the light" for themselves

there are a lot of different metaphors and stories and charts and graphs that may or may not be "useful" in describing "the light"

these gnostic metaphors and stories and charts and graphs are not "doctrine" or "dogma" like in most other religions (although people who subscribe to doctrine and dogma often mistake gnostic text for doctrine and dogma)

the cornerstone of gnosticism is the individual experience of "direct knowledge"

there are no priests or prophets
#62
Polytheist-Witch
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@3RU7AL
Boy this whole atheist lying thing is at a whole new level this week. Let's quote a post and then say it says something it doesn't you're being dishonest even with shit that's in black and white. Fucking disgusting.
#63
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Boy this whole atheist lying thing is at a whole new level this week. Let's quote a post and then say it says something it doesn't you're being dishonest even with shit that's in black and white. Fucking disgusting.
if you want to know what a gnostic believes, try asking an actual gnostic, heck, ask ten

you might get ten different answers
#64
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Imaginary multi-omni tyrants, come with all warts and no apologies I suppose.
#65
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@Poly #62.

The second sentence could do with a little more punctuation.  

Other than that though, it's a jolly good piece of absurd invective.
#66
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@oromagi
Churches love cash.  Jesus never did.

Although telling others that a rich man won't enter heaven-Matthew 19:23- he surrounded himself with rich and influential people in high places.... And I don't remember reading anywhere he told these particular buddies to give away all of there worldly possessions.
#67
oromagi
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@Stephen
[Jesus] surrounded himself with rich and influential people in high places
I think you are thinking of the Art of the Deal.  The most rich and influential man Jesus ever met Pontius Pilate, who promptly put Jesus to death.

.... And I don't remember reading anywhere he told these particular buddies to give away all of there worldly possessions.
You don't?  That's on you, buddy.  Jesus famously surrounded himself with 12 fisherman who hadn't a single boat or net between them and a prostitute.

And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.

And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse:
But be shod with sandals; and not put on two coats.

Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
or where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?
No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
Mammon means money, wealth.

And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.
The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.
Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,
    because he has anointed me
        to bring good news to the poor.

 He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.
He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.

Then said he also to him that bade him, When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends, nor thy brethren, neither thy kinsmen, nor thy rich neighbours; lest they also bid thee again, and a recompence be made thee.
But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind:
And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

I don't know how you could have missed it.  Jesus is vague on many points but on one point he is very clear- you cannot be rich and Christian.  You cannot be Christian and rich.
#68
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@oromagi
[Jesus] surrounded himself with rich and influential people in high places
I think you are thinking of the Art of the Deal.  The most rich and influential man Jesus ever met Pontius Pilate, who promptly put Jesus to death.

Well you obviously missed the part where I distinctly say Jesus' buddies;  for instance Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea. I didn't mention his enemies.



.... And I don't remember reading anywhere he told these particular buddies to give away all of there worldly possessions.
You don't?  That's on you, buddy.  Jesus famously surrounded himself with 12 fisherman who hadn't a single boat or net between them and a prostitute.
Fishermen that never owned a boat.  Well that is novel.  They were fishermen. Tell me what were they doing with all the fish they caught? Selling it or giving it away free to the poor? They were businessmen in the fishing industry. FFS!

 

fisherman who hadn't a single boat or net between them [.............................]I don't know how you could have missed it
I don't think I missed anything , but you certainly missed this>>>

Matthew 4:21-22New King James Version
21 Going on from there, He saw two other brothers, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in the boat with Zebedee their father, mending their nets. He called them, 22 and immediately they left the boat and their father, and followed Him.


  Jesus is vague on many points

I agree.  He is and often. But some here will have that Jesus and the scripture are  unambiguous, pretty clear and that the gospel writers knew exactly what exactly  they were conveying to the reader.



but on one point he is very clear- you cannot be rich and Christian.  You cannot be Christian and rich.

Nope. Jesus was a Jew. Jesus never once mentions the word Christian or Christianity in the whole of his life time. The four gospels never mention the words either.

It is my own opinion that Jesus would have been appalled that a whole new religion had sprung up in his name.

Come back when you have read and know the bible.


#69
oromagi
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@Stephen
for instance Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea. I didn't mention his enemies.
Nicodemus is not a buddy of Jesus.  He was Pharisee, a Rabbi of the Temple, who came to Jesus after Jesus chased the merchants out of the temple- literally Nicodemus' primary source of income.  He instructs Nicodemus that he must be reborn and Nicodemus doesn't understand the concept.  Jesus then says "If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?"  Let's not pretend that Jesus did not instruct Nicodemus on the perils of greed.

Joseph of Arimathea is not a buddy of Jesus.  He sat on the Council of Sanhedrin that condemned Jesus to death but opposed that decision.  Therefore, he was a Rabbi and again, the cleansing of the Temple was specifically condemning Joseph's primary source of income.   Nothing in gospels suggest that Joseph of Arimathea and Jesus ever met during Jesus' week in Jerusalem.

Fishermen that never owned a boat.  Well that is novel.  They were fishermen. Tell me what were they doing with all the fish they caught? Selling it or giving it away free to the poor? They were businessmen in the fishing industry. FFS!
They did own boats and nets and fished for a living.  They gave up that living to go from city to city with Jesus at Jesus's request.  They left their jobs, their purses and all their money, all their food at Jesus's specific request, included above.  They only brought sandals and staffs for walking.  Jesus specifically demanded that they stop being businessmen to follow him, for fuck's sake, how could you possibly have missed this?
 

I don't think I missed anything , but you certainly missed this>>>

Matthew 4:21-22New King James Version
21 Going on from there, He saw two other brothers, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in the boat with Zebedee their father, mending their nets. He called them, 22 and immediately they left the boat and their father, and followed Him.

That's right, they left their boats and nets behind and went to Syria with Jesus.


 Jesus was a Jew. Jesus never once mentions the word Christian or Christianity in the whole of his life time. The four gospels never mention the words either.
Agreed.  By CHRISTIAN here, I mean generically a follower of Christ one who is going to heaven.  You cannot follow Christ's command and be rich.  You cannot be rich and expect to go to heaven.



#70
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@oromagi
Nicodemus is not a buddy of Jesus. ...He was Pharisee

 Nicodemus was a ruler and member of the Sanhedrin and a secret disciple of Jesus  that Jesus taught the mysteries of the meaning of being reborn and all in secret under the cover of darkness. John 7:48 And a rich man. 



Joseph of Arimathea is not a buddy of Jesus. 

Jesus was said to have been put into the private tomb in the private grounds of Joseph of Arimathea whom had asked Pilate for the body of Jesus.

And both were friends and supporters of Jesus in high powerful positions as was Gamaliel Zacchaeus, Levi, and "certain" unnamed Pharisees along with Chuza, Herod’s business manager.  Luke’s Gospel especially highlights Jesus’ enjoyment of food, his acceptance of costly gifts and his keeping company with the wealthy.  Are you saying they weren't well paid for their services.  Then there was the wealthy women that Jesus sponged off "of their substance". FFS wake up you clown. Jesus had surrounded himself with the rich and powerful while commanding others  to give away everything they owned.

Read your bible .


They did own boats and nets and fished for a living. 

Make your mind up ffs!  You categorically state above that the didn't have a boat or net between them. HERE>>

oromagi, wrote: Jesus famously surrounded himself with 12 fisherman who hadn't a single boat or net between them.#67



You cannot be rich and expect to go to heaven.

Yes I mentioned that Jesus said this but does this exclude his rich and powerful JEW friends?

They left their jobs, their purses and all their money, all their food at Jesus's specific request, Jesus specifically demanded that they stop being businessmen to follow him, for fuck's sake, how could you possibly have missed this?

So you will be showing us this "specific" evidence then?





#71
oromagi
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@Stephen
Nicodemus was a ruler and member of the Sanhedrin and a secret disciple of Jesus  that Jesus taught the mysteries of the meaning of being reborn and all in secret under the cover of darkness. John 7:48 And a rich man. 
You are merely repeating what I said.  You claimed that Jesus did not warn Nicodemus that his wealth was an impediment to salvation and I showed you how your claim is false because the cleansing of the Temple was exactly that and it was that very lesson that caused Nicodemus to seek out Jesus.  Now your job is to either concede the point or try to come up with some kind of rebuttal although I don't know what.  You should also concede your claim that Nicodemus and Jesus were not buddies.


Joseph of Arimathea is not a buddy of Jesus. 
Jesus was said to have been put into the private tomb in the private grounds of Joseph of Arimathea whom had asked Pilate for the body of Jesus.
Joseph put Jesus in his own personal tomb, in fact.  But you claimed that Joseph of Arimathea and Jesus were friends when no gospel suggests that they ever met.  Like Nicodemus, Joseph sat on the council of Sanhedrin and therefore was directly criticized by Jesus at the cleansing of the Temple.  You should concede your claim that Jesus did not chastise Joseph as well as your claim that they were buddies.

And both were friends and supporters of Jesus in high powerful positions
This is false.  Jesus met Nicodemus once just before he was arrested and never met Joseph.  Since both demonstrated some admiration for Jesus, I think supporters is a fair claim but a close read of the Bible suggests that it doesn't seem likely Jesus even knew their given names.

as was Gamaliel Zacchaeus,
Was President of the Sanhedrin after Jesus' death.  No gospel makes any mention of him.

Levi, and "certain" unnamed Pharisees along with Chuza, Herod’s business manager.  
Since Levi gave up tax collecting and followed Jesus, this disproves your claim that Jesus did not counsel Levi on the perils of wealth (assuming a tax collector can be called rich- we've gone from Rabbis to tax collectors- not exactly upper class jobs)

Chuza was Herod's epitropos, in Koine Greek a household stewart but business manager is entirely possible.  Traditionally, this was the job of a trusted slave.  Chuza did not follow Jesus but his wife, Joanna did after Jesus healed her.

Luke’s Gospel especially highlights Jesus’ enjoyment of food, his acceptance of costly gifts and his keeping company with the wealthy.  Are you saying they weren't well paid for their services.  Then there was the wealthy women that Jesus sponged off "of their substance". FFS wake up you clown. Jesus had surrounded himself with the rich and powerful while commanding others  to give away everything they owned.
Your claim was, "I don't remember reading anywhere he told these particular buddies to give away all of there worldly possessions," but the Gospels say over and over that Jesus did just that.  If you are saying that Jesus hypocritically lived the high life at his rich friends expense while chastising others, I would say that the Gospels support no such claim and such a man would not likely be so well remembered after his execution.


They left their jobs, their purses and all their money, all their food at Jesus's specific request, Jesus specifically demanded that they stop being businessmen to follow him, for fuck's sake, how could you possibly have missed this?

So you will be showing us this "specific" evidence then?

You quoted the relevant passages yourself, although apparently without comprehension.

From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.
And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.
And they straightway left their nets, and followed him.
And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.
And they immediately left the ship and their father, and followed him.
And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.
And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan.

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.


#72
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@oromagi
Nicodemus was a ruler and member of the Sanhedrin and a secret disciple of Jesus  that Jesus taught the mysteries of the meaning of being reborn and all in secret under the cover of darkness. John 7:48 And a rich man. 
You should also concede your claim that Nicodemus and Jesus were not buddies.

 No I won't concede because they were friends. Tell me thicko, if they were not buddies why would both  Nicodemus and J of A risk the wrath of the Jews and their life to meet Jesus in secrete?  Read your bible you clown.





Joseph of Arimathea is not a buddy of Jesus. 
Jesus was said to have been put into the private tomb in the private grounds of Joseph of Arimathea whom had asked Pilate for the body of Jesus.
Joseph put Jesus in his own personal tomb, in fact. 

That is what I have said. The tomb and the grounds  were the property of J of A.  Read your bible thicko.


But you claimed that Joseph of Arimathea and Jesus were friends

I do. And stand by it. And have explained why above.  The accounts consistently describe how Christ was buried in a rock-cut tomb belonging to Joseph of Arimathea, a wealthy Jewish follower of Jesus. Here's just one of many examples for a lazy twat that won't do his own research and simply prefers take the word of some fly by night Pastor:




AND Click on the link and try this little theological test;


Who owned the tomb where Jesus was buried?

  •  Joseph of Arimathea
  •  Mary Magdalene
  •  Nicodemus
  •  Simon the Cyrenian




Read your bible thicko.


when no gospel suggests that they ever met. 

 That's correct, such is the ambiguity of half told stories in scripture. But tell me again thicko, why would a man not even mentioned in the scriptures just appear seemingly out of nowhere to approach Pilate and ask for the body of Jesus.  Palestine at the time of Christ was an extremely dangerous place for any follower of Jesus.  Why not Jesus' own Mother, or his absentee father. Or any of brothers or sister or anyone of the 70+  disciples Jesus was said to have had? 




And both were friends and supporters of Jesus in high powerful positions
This is false. 

FFS! Stop it! The evidence in the BIBLE is more than clear. 





as was Gamaliel Zacchaeus,
No gospel makes any mention of him.


 Then you need to read you Gospels very closely don't you, you thick bell end.


Levi, and "certain" unnamed Pharisees along with Chuza, Herod’s business manager.  
Since Levi gave up tax collecting and followed Jesus, this disproves your claim that Jesus did not counsel Levi on the perils of wealth

It proves nothing of the sort. 




Chuza was Herod's epitropos, in Koine Greek a household stewart but business manager is entirely possible.  Traditionally, this was the job of a trusted slave.  Chuza did not follow Jesus but his wife, Joanna did after Jesus healed her.

 So tell me thicko, did Joanna keep it secret from her husband Chuza, a steward to Herod in the palace of Herod   that she had been "healed" of her infirmities and evils spirits by Jesus? 




Luke’s Gospel especially highlights Jesus’ enjoyment of food, his acceptance of costly gifts and his keeping company with the wealthy.  Are you saying they weren't well paid for their services.  Then there was the wealthy women that Jesus sponged off "of their substance". FFS wake up you clown. Jesus had surrounded himself with the rich and powerful while commanding others  to give away everything they owned.
Your claim was, "I don't remember reading anywhere he told these particular buddies to give away all of there worldly possessions,"

That's correct. And you haven't shown me anywhere that Jesus told these particular buddies to give away their wealth and worldly goods, have you, although YOU appear to be  claiming he had . 




but the Gospels say over and over that Jesus did just that. 


 Ok, then show me where in the gospels it is that Jesus told Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus that they should give up their worldly goods, the jobs and their wealth? "specifically".


If you are saying that Jesus hypocritically lived the high life at his rich friends expense while chastising others, I would say that the Gospels support no such claim.

That's will be because you too are a bible dunce.




They left their jobs, their purses and all their money, all their food at Jesus's specific request, Jesus specifically demanded that they stop being businessmen to follow him, for fuck's sake, how could you possibly have missed this?

So you will be showing us this "specific" evidence then?

You quoted the relevant passages yourself, although apparently without comprehension.


 So that is a NO then. You cannot tell us where in scripture Jesus "specifically " told anyone to leave their homes, wives, children, nets, boats and businesses. That will be because he doesn't. He simply say, "follow me".

 Off you go.



#73
oromagi
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@Stephen
By lack of response, you seem to have conceded 

  • that the Apostles (including or as well as Levi/Matthew) gave up their jobs to follow Jesus
    • If you think otherwise, just cite the specific passage where they went back to  work
  • that Joseph of Arimathea and Jesus ever met
    • If you think otherwise,  just cite the specific passage where they meet
  • that Gamaliel Zacchaeus and Jesus ever met
    • If you think otherwise,  just cite the specific passage where they meet
  • that Herod's slave Chuza and Jesus ever met
    • If you think otherwise,  just cite the specific passage where they meet
  • that Jesus directly criticized the Sanhedrin for making money off the Temple, including Joseph of Arimathea, Nicodemus, and posthumously, Zacchaeus
    • If you think otherwise, explain the cleansing of the Temple
  • Whether Nicodemus' one  unproductive meeting with Jesus counts as friendship is debatable, I suppose, although scripture suggests that Nicodemus was greatly influenced by the chat. 
  • Personally, I don't count rabbis and tax collectors and fisherman as "rich and influential people" in a first century Roman province.  The rich and influential people were the Romans and Jesus met few enough Romans until the week of his execution.
    • Your notion  that Jesus  "surrounded himself with rich and influential people in high places" stands disproved.
    • Further, your claim that Jesus neglected to preach the peril of wealth to the upper class remain entirely without evidence.  Jesus' messages regarding wealth are shown to be consistent throughout.
  • If you'd like I'd be happy to start a debate where your burden of proof is to show that Jesus hypocritically failed to criticize his rich friend's wealth.

#74
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@oromagi
oromagi, wrote: By lack of response, you seem to have conceded 

In your dreams , sunshine. I concede nothing. The BIBLE makes it clear that Jesus had RICH friends in high places ....and low ones. The BIBLE doesn't once mention of Jesus telling his RICH Jew friends and confidantes that they should shed their worldly goods , wealth and power as you claim he did.  




oromagi, wrote: They left their jobs, their purses and all their money, all their food at Jesus's specific request, Jesus specifically demanded that they stop being businessmen to follow him, for fuck's sake, how could you possibly have missed this?

So you will be showing us this "specific" evidence then?

oromagi, wrote: You quoted the relevant passages yourself, although apparently without comprehension.

You cannot tell us where in scripture Jesus "specifically " told anyone to leave their homes, wives, children, nets, boats and businesses. That will be because he doesn't. He simply say, "follow me".


You missed this>>

oromagi, wrote:  but the Gospels say over and over that Jesus did just that. 


 Ok, then show me where in the gospels it is that Jesus told Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus that they should give up their worldly goods, the jobs and their wealth? "specifically".


oromagi, wrote: They left their jobs, their purses and all their money, all their food at Jesus's specific request, Jesus specifically demanded that they stop being businessmen to follow him, for fuck's sake, how could you possibly have missed this?

You this also>>

 Tell me thicko, if they were not buddies why would both  Nicodemus and J of A risk the wrath of the Jews and their life to meet Jesus in secrete? 

 And this>>

Why would a man not even mentioned in the scriptures just appear seemingly out of nowhere to approach Pilate and ask for the body of Jesus?  Palestine at the time of Christ was an extremely dangerous place for any follower of Jesus.  Why not Jesus' own Mother, or his absentee father. Or any of brothers or sister or anyone of the 70+  disciples Jesus was said to have had? 

 Off you go.

#75
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Why should a lying church get a tax break, for just being a place where lies and fictions are taught as fact?

Why should liars get away with their religious lies and get tax dollars back for being liars?

Legalised fraud?

#76
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@Deb-8-a-bull
☆< IMPORTANT REMINDER > ☆ For those attending church today.BRING   CASHHHHHHHHHHHH.......$$$

Jesus Lovessssssssssssssssss cash. 

We know the church the Pastors and the priest love your hard earned take- home, Deb.  
Those High Advanced Technology Telescope Observatories don't come cheap.

We do have to wonder why the church feels the need be snooping into god's living room?
Topic's author
#77
Deb-8-a-bull
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@Stephen
The great lord asks for a measly 10% pa from each christian. 

 Thats reasonable right ? 


But ummm. 

Imagine the jobs available at the church. 
Like
A Will securerer.
Or like 
A rich member getterer . 

A Information gatherer.

I only 3 years ago heard that you have to apply to become a member of a church. 
It blew my mind. 

Also. 
When you ask someone  about . Who built the church they attend, 
Nine times out of ten . 
The story goes as followed. 
God come to the bloke who owns it and told him to sell everything he owns and build a church. 

 


#78
Stephen
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@Deb-8-a-bull
The great lord asks for a measly 10% pa from each christian. 

 Thats reasonable right ?

No. It is not reasonable at all, Deb.  Nothing is beyond the lord and he should have no need for money. He can just pull a church out of thin air like he did with the creation of the universe and all that it holds.

"Look at the birds they neither reap nor sow or store away in barns" Matthew 6:26 . Isn't god much more than his own creation?

#79
Polytheist-Witch
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#80
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@ the Witch.


These 7 reasons do not stop the pastors and priests from putting worshipers on a giant guilt trip with a tinge of fear thrown in and a promise of a ticket to heaven and everlasting life.

You see your link, it  seems to have failed to mention what happened to Ananias and Sapphira when they failed to hand over all of what they got to the church from selling a bit of their own property. Yes they "died",  if the bible is to be believed.

Learn your BIBLE facts Witch. Start by reading the BIBLE.

Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God.” (Acts 5:3-4, NIV)

Ananias, on hearing this, immediately fell down dead. Everyone in the church was filled with fear. Young men wrapped up Ananias' body, carried it away and buried it.

Three hours later, Ananias' wife Sapphira came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her if the amount they donated was the full price of the land.

"Yes, that is the price," she lied.

Peter said to her, “How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.” (Acts 5:9, NIV)

Just like her husband, she instantly fell down dead. Again, the young men took her body away and buried it.

With this show of God's anger, great fear seized everyone in the young church.

See that Witch fkn FEAR!!!!! 
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#81
Deb-8-a-bull
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The god maker uppers guys ( founders )   =   Benifits.  Ben i fit ed  ( cant spell )   ( ben i fisheries  )    $$$$$$$$$
Jesus = gambit.  

The book writing guys. =   ben a fitted $$$$$$$$$

The clubhouse owners guys . =  ben fit ted  $$$$$$$$$

Hey you could probably like  just make shlt up about a god thing and get a group up and running and benifit from it.  

No? 

Well just fathom it for a minute. 

Could one of the Top 10 ( by number ) religious groups be totally just made up ?  

Getting a religious group up and running makes a Ponzie scheme feel childish.  

 

#82
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The weak mind of others is not my problem. There's nothing saying you have to give 10% in the New Testament.
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#83
Deb-8-a-bull
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@Stephen
I'm after a approximate time line. 

From jesus crucifixion to a full Christian holy book ?  ( not the first bits of the jew book. )  no dead sea scolls 
The first full christian holy book.   Can i say that? 

Ifffff it is what i think it is.  (  450 to 500 years )  christians could soooooo use this as a " good argument  " if you will for there gods existence. 

So
Time line.
Inventing the god  .   Lets go with catholics.   ( from  jesus death ) 

To
( how many years pass ? ) 


Inventing a holy book. 


( How many years ? ) 

Inventing " a  church "  



#84
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@Deb-8-a-bull
A Zedku for Deb.


Time/line is infinite.
 
Backwards anyway.

Though now, now, now, now, now, now, etc.

Is located at the front.

And hominids closely followed by GODS and cash,

Given the infinite state of backwardsness,

Are not perceivably, not at the point of now.

Though for the purposes of demonstration,

And representatively only,

One Could draw the longest line that one could fit onto a black/white/multi-ethnic board,

And place the latter (hominids, GODS and cash) approximately 50mm behind the former (now).

And if one was really clever ,

One could leave a gap at the front,

And every ten thousand years or so,

Increase the length of the line by 1mm.


Is 10% of infinity,

Infinitely 10%?




#85
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@ the Witch

 There's nothing saying you have to give 10% in the New Testament.

  I have shown you a perfect example of  the result of  NOT giving to the church from THE NEW TESTAMENT and you choose to ignore it . Ananias  and his wife Sapphira offered only  a portion of what they had  but the church demanded it all or die!
#86
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@Deb-8-a-bull
From jesus crucifixion to a full Christian holy book?

It varies, but the commonly accepted one is the Vulgate AD 400 which included the OT.


#87
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@Deb-8-a-bull
I have never been to a church that expects cash. Though, They teach tithing a lot. I think the ideal of a membership like a lot of Jewish Temples have is better, but it would never take off in Christianity. 

I remember when I was in foster care, I was taken to a Catholic church and they were annoying with tithing. They passed the collection plate around like 7 times in one service. One time for the tithe, maybe another time to have something fixed maybe a 3rd time for some other random things.

Even catholic churches are likely to be less annoying now. A lot are taking money from text or online so most churches have an envelope in the back of the seat in front of you and a box somewhere to slide it into. 

Usually any sort of little speech about tithes is preceded by stating if you are new to please not give or that if you are not a Christian yet to please not give. 

You can also go for years and never give a dime. Nobody will even know or judge you. I am only speaking of Christian churches I have never been to one of a different religion, though I really want to. 

I urge you to go to some services for various Christian churches. You won't feel pressured to join. I'd use Google reviews to avoid accidentally going to a weird church that might love bomb you when you walk through the door for example. You'll walk in and out safely even than but who wants to be that uncomfortable for the 60-90 minutes you'll be there. 

#88
GnosticChristianBishop
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Religions are in the entertainment ands story telling profession, given that the God religions are based on myths and not reality.

We all pay for our other entertainment so it would be proper to pay a church if it provided you with a service.

What other theatre has free admission?

All liars and good con men want to be paid.

Regards
DL


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#89
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@Incel-chud
Well it has easy been a decade and a half since i attended a sunday service. 

I was kinda guessing that the plate would have like a  ( pay wave ) credit card option.  Like you press the $25 button and hold your credit card near it for a couple of seconds. 

I broke into a church twice and scored a tv and vhs player. 
That puts me $280 up on god .
Plussss. 
Ive attended approx 20 to 25 sessions of Sunday school.  
My mum was adorned in macaroni jewelry,  and works of art work that went straight on the fridge door.   
$50 bucks worth easy. 
Mum would value this jewelry at at least a million bucks. 

So thats 
$280.
+ $ 50. 

Minus $20 in $2buck coins that  i have  put into the plate. 

Let me quickly run them numbers. 
And carry the 3. 

Oh wow. 
Thats
$300 bucks im up on jesus.  

Nice hey? 


What i am trying to say is .
Id have no qualms building a church for moneys. 
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#90
Deb-8-a-bull
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Oh.
Did i just type that out loud ? 

It is Cold here , and  i just found my cat lying on my keyboard for warmth. 
Stupid cat 
He wont do it again 

Please disregard.