Is there a corollary betweens transgender people and getting older?

Author: secularmerlin

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#1
secularmerlin
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As I get older I still identify as a young person. I still feel vital and I'm always surprised when I look in the mirror and see what time has made of me. I am also increasingly uncomfortable in and with my body often wishing to "turn back the clock"

In fact

Many people resort to surgery or other cosmetic measures in an attempt to "pass" as younger people.

Is it wrong to want to be younger and to want others to think we are younger?

If it isn't wrong then what is wrong with wanting others to view you as a different gender than you were assigned at birth? Even if it were not true. Even if nothing you do can ever make you a different gender than the one written on your birth certificate?

Now consider for a moment the possibility that the gender on your birth certificate is not like your age and may not actually accurate. That it may in fact be incorrect for a number of physical and psychological reasons. 

Let's say we disallow all cosmetic surgeries, both those meant to help one "pass" for younger and those that allow one to "pass" as a specific gender identity. Are you still opposed to the idea of a person in this position dressing, acting and asking to be addressed as that gender (whatever that means to you or them)? If so may I suggest that it isn't the surgery that offends you so much as the very idea that someone would have the audacity to challenge your views on gender roles. 

This isn't meant as a strawman. I'm sure not everyone who opposes cosmetic surgery feels this way but it is worth asking yourself if this does in fact apply to you and if you are ok with that.



#2
Lemming
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@secularmerlin
I don't particularly think it wrong, to want to be younger, it's a common want, people miss their strength or looks, or dislike new pains, less time.
No scientific marvel to cause it
Though people can live healthier, to keep their body from deteriorating as quick.

'Might be wrong to deceive people about one's age,
Though I don't think it's wrong to try to be one's best.

Wanting people to see you as the other gender bothers me, 'probably mostly because of social norms,
Second part, 'maybe because I see it as delusional, or turning one's back on oneself.

Even ignoring the surgery,
As a society we have a separation between the sexes,
. . .
What I ask is 'wrong with social norms, etiquette?

You might say it becomes wrong when it harms someone else,
And 'might be that I don't see trans as harmed, when I don't want to keep their company, given their behavior.
I don't like hanging around nude people either, or people making weird noises or smells in public,

Ah but I imagine the response again as,
They can't help it, victims of their brains, body, and wants.

Well 'wants can be helped,
Brain and body a bit harder though, maybe.

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#3
secularmerlin
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@Lemming
Biological sex =/= gender 
#4
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@secularmerlin
Meh, a guy can be feminine, but he's 'still a guy,
A girl can be manly, but she's 'still a woman.

A guy can bang another guy in prison, but it's 'still a guy.
A man or woman can lose their reproductive organs, I'd 'still consider them their starting points of male or female, just disfigured.

. . .

Well, such is 'my view anyhow.
#5
RationalMadman
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Secularmerlin, you just made transphobic point, while meaning to do the opposite.

We would never entertain a young-looking, botox-filled, plastic-surgeoned 76 year old claim to be 30 in any official sense. Why do we allow males to claim to be females and vice versa for extremely similar body modification levels?

There is not one genuine reply that you can give me which disagrees that doesn't commit a logical fallacy, try it.
#6
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@secularmerlin
How are you using the word corollary?

All people will age, that is inherent programming.

Awareness of and consequent concerns and responses  relating to aging. Are relative to inherent mortal awareness and acquired social expectations.

Therefore as R.M points out....If you are drawing comparisons between the issues of aging and transgenderism, you may well be shooting the pro-trans argument in the foot slightly.

That is to say........One is aware of aging, so one chooses to address the effects of aging.

                                     One  is aware of gender dysphoria, so one chooses to address  the effects of gender dysphoria.

Therefore.............One is also aware of gender, and chooses to address the effects of gender.
#7
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@RationalMadman
Right. We wouldn’t change the age of consent laws and statutory rape laws to accommodate a person who feels a very different age.

#8
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@cristo71
Well yes but I felt I didn't need to go to that extreme to make the point. There ultimately has to be a stage where it becomes a discussion. Currently,  you can't even fucking dare discuss the trans thing without cancel culture burning you.

JK Rowling, a proud feminist, is being turned on by feminists for questioning if trans women are 100% female.
#9
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@RationalMadman
We would never entertain a young-looking, botox-filled, plastic-surgeoned 76 year old claim to be 30 in any official sense.
according to "THE LAW" if you are younger than 18 you are not considered an adult (legal entity)

and if you are 18 or older, you are considered an adult (legal entity)

"THE LAW" does NOT concern itself with whether or not someone is age 30 or age 76 when they are expected to pay taxes or when they are charged with a crime

"THE LAW" also doesn't care if you wear pink or blue

human judges do seem to give preferential treatment to SOME older people and to perceived women in many cases, but this is not "THE LAW"

this is implicit human bias
#10
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@cristo71
Right. We wouldn’t change the age of consent laws and statutory rape laws to accommodate a person who feels a very different age.
a judge might consider "mental competence" however
#11
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@zedvictor4
All people will age, that is inherent programming.
but not necessarily at the same rate
#12
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@3RU7AL
I never mentioned 18, you are discussing a red herring. There are laws being passed in very progressive nations ti allow legally recognising trans people as their transitioned gender on legal, official documentation such as quotas and even their ID, where age would also show.

Please stick to the topic, I will not get distracted by your techniques.
#13
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@RationalMadman
There are laws being passed in very progressive nations ti allow legally recognising trans people as their transitioned gender on legal, official documentation such as quotas and even their ID,
"THE LAW" also doesn't care if you wear pink or blue

the question here is WHY ?

WHY does "THE LAW" need to know what you look like naked ?