My latest tthoughts concerning the "problem of evil" argument.

Author: secularmerlin

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#91
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@Deb-8-a-bull
I'm close to positive  You've killed humans before. 
i am aware that i am continuously (albeit indirectly) contributing to the death of humans (by purchasing avocados and gasoline for example)
#92
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@secularmerlin
When the vast majority agree that the Golden Rule is objective,  how can you say that morals are subjective?

Sure, there must be subjective judgement of all moral tenets, but that does not negate the objective nature of that rule when it is always chosen.

When is the Golden Rule subjective, in real sense?
 
Regards
DL
#93
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@GnosticChristianBishop
When is the Golden Rule subjective, in real sense?
it assumes that everyone likes to be treated exactly as you like to be treated

this is clearly untrue
#94
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@3RU7AL
Not me. All of us.

That s what makes it objective.

Show why that is not true, instead of just stating it like a proven fact.

Tell us about how you like pain.

Regards
DL
#95
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@GnosticChristianBishop

I think this proves that morals are subjective. The Inca's sacrificed children to their Gods.  Child sacrifice in the Incan Empire was performed as part of the capacocha ritual. Children were chosen because they were thought to be the purest of society, therefore the best people to offer to the gods. Previous research suggests victims would be chosen many years in advance—hair samples from victims indicated they were "fattened up" in the years leading to their deaths.
#96
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@GnosticChristianBishop
That s what makes it objective.
some people like doors held open for them

some people are offended when doors are held open for them

some people like to be hugged

some people do not like to be hugged

some people like to be asked questions

some people do not like to b3e asked questions

some people like their creative works to be copied and modified freely

some people do not like their creative works to be copied and modified freely

some people like to eat peanuts

some people are deathly afraid of peanuts


"THE SILVER RULE" is somewhat more practical, but still has a few pitfalls



THE UNIVERSAL MORAL CODE (TUMC)

(1) PROTECT YOURSELF
(2) PROTECT YOUR FAMILY
(3) PROTECT YOUR PROPERTY
#97
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@FLRW
To them, it was an objective moral tenet as their God always liked sacrifices.

One must try to get into the judges head.

Regards
DL
#98
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@3RU7AL
We all have different tastes. We all know this.

Did you have another point?

Am I supposed to show what it was for you?

Regards
DL


#99
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@GnosticChristianBishop
One must try to get into the judges head.
that's the very definition of "subjective"
#100
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@GnosticChristianBishop
We all have different tastes. We all know this.
you'd think "we all know this" but most people i've encountered are quick to think that other people want the same things that they themselves want

Grigori Yakovlevich Perelman
#101
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@3RU7AL
Have you never swatted a bug?
#102
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@zedvictor4
Have you never swatted a bug?
did you miss the part where i mention "THE SILVER RULE" also has some pitfalls ?

and,

generally,

"morality" and or "ethics" apply strictly to how humans interact with and or otherwise affect other humans
#103
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@3RU7AL
I think that there are lots and lots of animal lovers who would disagree with you.

And please, no animal lover jokes.
#104
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@zedvictor4
I think that there are lots and lots of animal lovers who would disagree with you.
eradication of insects (en masse) would certainly have adverse effects for human civilization on every level

swatting a few flies in your own home is likely to net a positive benefit to any and all proximate individuals
#105
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@3RU7AL
The same net positive benefit might apply to swatting a few proximate individuals.

Depends upon the circumstance one finds oneself in with proximate individuals.

In an adverse situation we can easily flip our moral compass and become comparatively atrocious.


Good night....Time for bed.

Regards........................Zed.
#106
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@3RU7AL
Of course the subjective mind has to choose to make something objective.

How else could subjectivity or objectivity of a thig be accepted.

Regards
DL


#107
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@GnosticChristianBishop
choose to make something objective
perhaps you'd be kind enough to share your personally preferred definition of "objective" as contrasted against your personally preferred definition of "subjective"
#108
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@3RU7AL
???

I like and use the dictionary.   I do not deflect into arguing the definition of well defined words.

I do not know what you have against the dictionary definitions, so I will just read your words as deflection by the less bright. 

Regards
DL
#109
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@GnosticChristianBishop
I do not know what you have against the dictionary definitions,
nothing at all, some of my closest friends are lexicographers

Of course the subjective mind has to choose to make something objective.
depending on what dictionary you decide to reference,

"subjective" and "objective" are (generally considered) mutually exclusive

this would make "choosing" "to make" "something" "objective" 100% impossible
#110
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@3RU7AL
Impossible?

Don't be foolish.

How else does it become objective, if we do not subjectively make it so?

If you have no method, then you must accept that that is how we subjectively decide that a tenet is objective and always applies..

Regards
DL
#111
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@GnosticChristianBishop
do you agree that, "subjective" and "objective" are (generally considered) mutually exclusive ?


#112
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@3RU7AL
Sure. I follow the dictionary.

One term, objective, applies to a tenet all the time, without exception.

Subjective will or could have exceptions.

Regards
DL
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#113
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@3RU7AL
Why did he kick Satan out of heaven? 
demands for equal rights
Well stated 
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#114
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@GnosticChristianBishop
When the vast majority agree that the Golden Rule is objective,  how can you say that morals are subjective?
Are you serious? If the MAJORITY  AGREES is your standard then the agreement of SUBJECTS is involved. That is definitionally subjective. 

I mean unless you would like to put forth an alternative definition of subjective. 

The golden rule would have to be correct DESPITE the moral standard of the general public not BECAUSE of it.
#115
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@secularmerlin
Sorry.

We are not discussing the same things.

I do not discuss things here. I am discussing moral ideas.

Call those things if you like, but we are still not even on the same page.

Regards
DL 

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#116
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@GnosticChristianBishop
I'm not sure I understand your objection. What has this to do with the fact that morality is subjective by the definition that is being used here?
#117
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Sure. I follow the dictionary.

One term, objective, applies to a tenet all the time, without exception.
you may be conflating deontological ethics with "objective moral edict"

objective is generally defined as "independent of any observer" and also "identical to all possible observers"

this makes anything that qualifies as "objective" strictly undetectable
#118
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@secularmerlin
If the MAJORITY  AGREES is your standard then the agreement of SUBJECTS is involved. That is definitionally subjective.
a broad consensus can also be described as INTERSUBJECTIVE
#119
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@secularmerlin
"Evil is subjective by nature and therefore unless you agree to a common standard with your interlocutor the conversation will break down at "is x really evil though?""

It may be both.

Do you wish to discuss xs or evil?

Evil is objectively always at the end of the graph for good and evil that denotes what we would not prefer.

Evil xs  or issues then would be subjective, as to degree of evil, but always objectively evil.

If subjective, as you say, then show where evil is ever on the good side of a good and evil graph.

Regards
DL

#120
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Religions have a problem of evil.

The naturalist religion I follow does not. It does not have a sentient God.

Evolution and nature have no problem of evil.

The evil they have is only a small part of the overall good of our continuing evolution instead of extinction.

We would never give up that evil and we would all continue to do it even knowingly.

We have no choice in this.

Regards
DL